DrJ - Member
STW earlier today...
Wat?
Hmmm! Challenge accepted!
You don't look as though you're really giving it much of a go.
maybe you can help now
No.
Perhaps first tell me.if you think prostitution is OK, and explain
At the risk of walking off down your cul-de-sac, I will respond. If by prostitution you mean a person charging another person money for sexual acts, then, yes, I do think it's OK. That some people exploit or coerce those who are desperate or feel forced into making such a choice, I do not think is OK.
I was going to let this lie but I'd rather not leave this thread with my opinions incorrectly explained by some one else. Although I have to describe an attempt to defend the status quo by sugestion that the rights of podiums girls needing defending as "herioc".
The Tour De France is the third lagest sporting event in the world and the largets annual sporting event. The issue, to me, is not about the exploitation of the girls on the podium. They probaly aren't exploited. I imagine them being in the last year of a phd and needing a bi of cash to get them through to the end before they star their careers as Astophysicists or whatever.
The Tour is male sporting event. Most sporting events are. That won't change and we are along way from a female version having equivalant status. IMHO it would be better if the media images were are all rather than the status quo which seems to be all male plus podium girls.
[img] https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53dd44b5e4b0a4970a8b838e/t/5599a317e4b00f5f814335eb/1436132120731/ [/img]
The problem, which i have just added to, is pictures like this being a major part of the Tours media ouput. They contribute to a negative image of gender roles.
I'll confess that I had to have this pointed by a female colleague. But once it was pointed out it seemed pretty clear what the problem was.
The blonde on the right looks well fit.
Yep, third place clearly won. She's beautiful.
Im yet to see why beautiful people of either sex being paid to stand around and look attractive is sexist. I've no doubt that it isn't what we'd want for our sons or daughters but that says more about our prejudice about what counts as a worthy job as opposed to what is actually a denigrating role.
Also, as of yet, no one can give a good reason as to why they are the white knight s saving these girls from something they don't necessarily want to be saved from but are still doing the right thing.
Go on 3 fish give it a go, cos at the moment, you look like you don't know
I've no doubt that it isn't what we'd want for our sons or daughters
I dunno it would beat a zero hours minimum wage job all day long.
Use whatever you've got to get ahead, why not?
Go on 3 fish give it a go, cos at the moment, you look like you don't know
No man, that's you.
it's because they have nice teeth and tits.
True - largely
the women have no say in it,
Untrue
Personally, cant see why we need podium girls but that's for them to decide.
To add to my earlier comment - that I still stand by - I worked in marketing the the 70s and 80s. I've seen this crap and had thought it had gone apart from a few small holdouts.
Thursday a client asked for t-shirts with a company logo on. It appears that we will have 'totty' giving out stuff and doing PR in the new year.
I pointed out that the streets of England are not the place to be wearing a t-shirt in January. And the concept is 30 years out of date.
Totally ignored by the management. Their dicks are probably sooo hard thinking about choosing the girls.
Has anybody ever asked these podium girls what they think?
Has anybody ever asked these podium girls what they think?
This misses the point by a country mile.
The point is not whether the people who do it enjoy it. The point is that the custom of podium girls contributes to a culture, in sport and in wider society, where men are the heroic "do-ers" and the women's role is to just stand around looking pretty.
Podium girls don't offend me. Nor would I like to see them "banned". But I'd like the organisers of sporting events to make the free decision to end practices in which women are promoted as "eye candy" in male-dominated fields.
Maybe the podium girls could be replaced by plain looking middle aged women with nice personalities.
Tell you what. Why don't we ban the major cause of this crap? Women's magazines.
Also, as of yet, no one can give a good reason as to why they are the white knight s saving these girls from something they don't necessarily want to be saved from but are still doing the right thing.
I'll I can say is that to me and many other on here, they are good reasons.
PS get the picture on your phone and pass it round the staff room Monday lunch time. Ask people what they think. Ty and include a few women under 30. Of course they all might agree with you, but give it a go
Fascinating thread. 🙂
[url= http://www.prettydamnedfast.com/blog/2015/7/5/nopodiumgirls ]http://www.prettydamnedfast.com/blog/2015/7/5/nopodiumgirls[/url]
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[quote=charliemungus l]Go on 3 fish give it a go, cos at the moment, you look like you don't know
[quote=3fish]No man, that's you.
Actually, it's both of us. But given that that was my point,I'm happy that you provide support for it.
Thanks
This is getting silly now.
Who here thinks women have equality?
In an equal world, podium girls are no problem at all. But of course, for a lot of you guys, the world does look pretty equal, because you may never have faced real discrimination, therefore podium girls are just fun.
In an unequal world, where women can not even dream of achieving the same success or recognition as their male counterparts, podium girls are a personification and perpetuation of that inequality.
Actually, it's both of us.
No, you're either asking people (like me) to explain something you don't understand or trying to manipulate them to explain it for you by way of arguing with them. Well, I'm not doing your legwork for you - that's [i]my[/i] point. You must think I was born yesterday...
Not yesterday, but not much before. Nevertheless, it does look like it is something you cannot explain.
hebdencyclist - Member
Has anybody ever asked these podium girls what they think?
This misses the point by a country mile.
Why? Aren't they entitled to an opinion? Do you think because they are beautiful they don't have the intelligence to have a say in the matter?
Nevertheless, it does look like it is something you cannot explain.
etc.. etc..
Actual female person here. I cringe every time I see podium girls.
Also if I'm watching racing I want to see women race. Cyclocross in Belgium is getting it right - you get to see the women's race and the men's on Eurosport. Televisation has made a difference, ask Helen Wyman.
Road racing and road racing culture makes me see red. I had a go at it but you can't even race all the races in the calendar as a woman.
Also, I'm not shit. I could give most of you lot a run for your money in a 24hr solo. I never knew I had it in me until my 40s. Wish I'd been encouraged a bit more a bit earlier. Bah humbug.
If I had a daughter I'd be telling her to go for more! Not to be aspiring to be a podium girl. Aspire to be great. Your looks fade, but skill, training and determination you have for life. So yes, I think it's great to have young cyclists handing out the prizes. It's a chance to reinforce that inspiration.
Mmmm... men claiming it's ok to have women used as pretty objects. Ok, I'll believe you it's ok and ignore all the women around the world who have a major problem with it. What do the women know anyway...they're just good for looking pretty right... 🙄
In an unequal world, where women can not even dream of achieving the same success or recognition as their male counterparts, podium girls are a personification and perpetuation of that inequality.
fin25 - not really seeing it as inequality. More and more women are enjoying competitive sport but the numbers are still considerably less than men. I'm not convinced that you'll ever see an equal split, if that's what you're looking for.
Women aren't actually being exploited by dressing up as podium girls, thanks to Katie Price it has become the women who're doing the exploiting and importantly on their terms.
But if you start talking about body image and young girls then it's a different argument alltogether.
Why? Aren't they entitled to an opinion? Do you think because they are beautiful they don't have the intelligence to have a say in the matter?
Oh don't be stupid.
Cinnamon girl, you're right, I don't think that podium girls are necessarily being exploited, but their existence in sport is seen by many women as a bit of an insult, given the amount of barriers they may have faced. Things are rapidly improving though and huge progress is being made in women's sport, so much so that podium girls are starting to look a bit silly to a lot of people.
Totally agree with you on body image, but surely inequality plays a part in that too?
I think very few people are really thinking that exploitation of the individuals is the issue here. I would assume that the individuals are making a free choice to do this for money, knowing exactly what they're doing.
Equally, nobody is claiming that anyone will see a scene such as the above and say "Oh right, so that's how it works then, the men are th important ones and the women are there to do nothing except look pretty."
But in the context of there being so much crap like this around, and the historical (and current) inequality in roles and perceptions, it's an unnecessary contributor to the perpetuation of those unfair, unhealthy and also downright stupid ways of thinking.
To my mind this is a kind of casual sexism. As has been said before, in an ideal world it would be so trivial that it just doesn't matter, but we're still a long way from there.
Also, it must be really weird for the winners of women's races to stand next to podium girls!
Cinnamon girl, you're right, I don't think that podium girls are necessarily being exploited, but their existence in sport is seen by many women as a bit of an insult, given the amount of barriers they may have faced. Things are rapidly improving though and huge progress is being made in women's sport, so much so that podium girls are starting to look a bit silly to a lot of people.
Totally agree with you on body image, but surely inequality plays a part in that too?
What I'd really like to see is a 'code of conduct' whereby, for example, bosoms bursting out of frocks and thong flashing is outlawed. Common decency really.
Not sure inequality plays a part in body image but I do think self-esteem plays a huge part and that really needs addressed.
Oh don't be stupid
Yes I didn't really think I'd get away with such a basic effort. Ho hum.
😀
If the girls are happy then no one has any right to complain. Its not sexism, its capitalising and that's no problem. You don't have to watch thee podiums, surely just a waste of time. Its marketing and the sponsors want airtime. Presentations are dull so jazzing them up a bit keeps people watching.
To one of you above. Try being white, male, married, no kids, straight, working, healthy, middle aged and educated. The most discriminated bunch out there.
Are you having a bit of a bad day?
Mattsccm, I am all of the things on your list and I'm lucky enough to have never been knowingly discriminated against in my life. I'd think if I was a member of the most discriminated against group in society, I might have noticed by now.
I'm sorry that you feel the way you do, it can't be easy when you're white, male, married, no kids, straight, working, healthy, middle aged and educated and still being discriminated against.
Open your eyes Fin, has your job not recently been taken by a black disabled lesbian? It happens all the time.
Nope, mine neither. Although I am a woman. So it might yet be. 🙄
Sure as hell find podium girls an anachronism that shows incredibly limited ambition for the human race. Getting young riders to give prizes is much better. I've heard many stories of kids being inspired by meeting their heroes.
To one of you above. Try being white, male, married, no kids, straight, working, healthy, middle aged and educated. The most discriminated bunch out there.
Or try explaining discrimination to someone who is [i] white, male, married, no kids, straight, working, healthy, middle aged and educated[/i] and see how it goes. Please feel free to list how you are discriminated against when people look at you, make assumptions based on your genitals or your skin colour, how people decide where you are from before you speak etc.
[quote=mattsccm ]To one of you above. Try being white, male, married, no kids, straight, working, healthy, middle aged and educated. The most discriminated bunch out there.
Thanks for clarifying the merits of your contribution to this thread - in case there was still any doubt!
When my kids watch the Olympics, my daughters are inspired. What message do they get about my sport when they watch the Tour etc?
When my kids watch the Olympics, my daughters are inspired. What message do they get about my sport when they watch the Tour etc?
That they identify their strengths and then use those strengths to make their way forward in life. Maybe?
What message do they get about my sport when they watch the Tour etc?
Men are willing to pay for female attention 😉
Podium girls cost money.
Which rather begs the question: are the 'young cyclists' being used to replace the podium girls getting paid the same amount for doing the same job? If so, then the argument for saving the money and spending it on women's cycling is thus rendered totally redundant.
If not, then who's being exploited here?
Given it's in SA in school holidays then I think they will not run out of volunteers for that gig, like football mascots etc.
But what I really expect is that it will be a complete non event where people don't even notice that the "totty" is missing as it were. Hence proving it to be an outdated idea that should have died off years ago like picking your PA based on look not skills etc.
