Seems to me that you could spec a Passat with tons of cool stuff and it'd come out the same or a bit more than a basic E-Class.
So which would you go for? For me it'd be more gadgets.
The smallest I need with the fewest gadgets. And not in brown.
Not even a fan of electric windows, but aircon and a nice stereo are useful.
Having picked up my new (to me) car tonight then the answer is obviously the red one.
?
I don't like the way all the tech and gadgets has been pushing up prices. It's not even optional a lot of it as the manufacturers compete to have the highest 'base spec' in class. Most of it seems to be novelty value only and when an option or setting is set once that's it forever. Auto turn on this and auto sensing that is cool for 5mins then it's forgotten about. I wish there were more well built cars stripped of all the unnecessary automated gadgetry stuff available for lower prices but still used the technology available to improve handling and ride characteristics.
There are certain features I like, like heated screens, but they’re not available on all marques, a good DAB radio that is easy to use, with a simple interface with my iPhone, and a good, easy to use aircon/climate system, and an uncomplicated dash layout; Ford have the heated screen, and are generally ok, but their dash ergonomics suck! The radio is horribly difficult to select stations on, and there are far too many fussy little buttons to select from while driving. Higher spec models do seem to have an easier to use touch-screen, but there are better layouts. I’d rather spend more on the seats, suspension and tyres than fancy toys, like glass roof panels and the like, although I’ve developed a liking for adaptive LED lighting systems.
Spec all the way, WGAF about a badge.
But IME the Passat is overpriced generally compared to its direct competitors.
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving, whichever one has the comfiest seats if you don't.
Personally, I'd buy a much older model of something interesting, preferably with a V8. It amazes me that people will spend such vast amounts of money on something new with a nice looking interior when 99% of the time you (hopefully) won't be looking at it. 💡
There are certain features I like, like heated screens,
Absolutely. There are some extras that only come with higher spec cars, such as the heated screen which to make a huge difference.
Having said that I bet manufacturers get mixed messages about what people want out of a car.
There are some extras that only come with higher spec cars, such as the heated screen which to make a huge difference.
Heated screens are in the very basic ranges now too our works Ka is the base one and has a heated screen.
Comfortable seat, air con, good fuel economy. As little cost as possible.
That's how I choose my works car anyway.
The Mondeo. 🙂
Both?
Or V70 SE cost less than the comparable Mondeo Titanium....
As above, comfy seat, cruise, heated screen nice stereo and I'm good.
Spec up. It P's me off when buying a used car with the crappy spec some cars were, especially when looking at the more premium brands where people obviously went for the badge with a crap spec just to really struggle to afford the badge. Pointless and vain. Speccing up definitely improves the chance of selling on and getting the strongest price. I also hate those button blanks that scream out to me that I haven't got quite as good a car as I could have.
Anyway, you're talking about a VW so that is a premium brand. A Mondeo is the smart person's option. Spec'd upto the eyeballs, easily as good quality as any of the mainstream German badges and drives better than them too. I also think the latest Mondeo is a pretty car, especially the estate. Certainly prettier than the current Merc range that just look pig ugly to me.
There is less and less difference between the premium brands and the likes of Ford these days. There is no longer the night and day difference there used to be, especially in quality and reliability, and they are living off past glories and reputations.
The ‘almost’ invisible element heat screen is a Ford only thing I believe. All the others use the aircon to dry the screen but they can’t really defrost,
My Dad actually did pretty much what the OP mentioned, he looked at Audi and Merc and decided he’d rather have a Passat with all extras and spent £32k on it in 2001. Financially it wasn’t a great move as it depreciated terribly and was only ever worth a bit more than a standard one, but he’s still got it so I doubt he cares.
These days with so many spec levels available you dont have to pick lots of options - there’s always a ‘sporty’ on and a ‘luxury’ one depending on your taste near the top of the range and they’re usually good value when you consider depredation - especially as everyone leases these days don’t they?
Pjay. Think that has changed now, proper heated screen was on the golf options list when I was looking the other day. Been able to get one for my Elise for years!
I'd prefer a higher spec lower brand car most of the time - I think leasing is where it falls apart as it often works out cheaper going for a premium brand + you get stung a lot on the options (as I guess depreciation hits them more).
I’m currently considering a 3 series touring or C Class AMG line estate, having abandoned the idea of keeping my 120d.
I’m favouring the Merc on the basis its a more comfortable ride, despite being a year older. I want the comfort now but I’m thinking this is my last purchase for a few years so am looking to the future really.
So er no, more toys is not the only consideration.
I like all the tech that’s coming on small city cars.. those little C3’s have oodles of toys and seem to be loved by owners. Then there are Smart ForTwos which have plenty of gadgets (I have owned a few fortwos in the past, a Pulse and Brabus)
I remember back when 205’s came out and Pug did a “Roland Garros” version, gawd it was lovely. Plenty of leather heated seats, high spec stereo, comfortable to drive and luxurious to be in..
So, I guess I’m a fan of small luxury well specd cars..
He says, owning a fully kitted SUV 🤷♂️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️👍🤣
mrsdts Passat came with more extras than she ordered it with, its on a business lease and I presume the lease buyer added bits that would protect their asset for resale. Not complaining, probably does effect the P11d though.
Has heated element in windscreen, Fords patent ended on that a while ago.
Very few of the opinons seem to leave me smiling for long.
Good comfy leather seats are an absolute must for me though, something you can wipe the mark left by a oily and muddy cassette etc. (Even if you only stick a wheel in absentmindedly when doing something)
remote windows are nice ... an enduring smile being able to lock and do the windows but that’s probably standard now. Cruise control that on a manual let’s you change gears is one I like ... my old car used to drop out of cruise control if I changed gear.
I rarely drive short distances... so for me the driving experience is paramount. Very few gadgets endure as someone else said you switch something on and then leave it. (Mostly .. why would I turn off traction control in normal life)
any tech will soon be outdated and stuff like sat nav will just be a reminder you can do the same on a phone. (Only bettter/cheaper and more options because you can change to the latest app) but the more built into a console the more you are stuck with.
I chose on size last time, the 3 or 4 series was £150-200 more per month than my equally speced 1 series.
Different things matter to different folk
By all means toy it up if you're on a PCH but kit can become a liability if (like me) you tend to buy a car at about 4 years old and keep it for another 10. I'd rather cars remained simpler but that horse has bolted, especially with short term nature of new car ownership promoted by PCH and PCP. Repairing the iDrive on an F31 has just cost a friend north of a grand, I don't think there's a spec without it now though.
any tech will soon be outdated and stuff like sat nav will just be a reminder you can do the same on a phone. (Only bettter/cheaper and more options because you can change to the latest app) but the more built into a console the more you are stuck with.
The tech is an interesting one and something I've found poor in many of the cars I've been in. Clunky software running on clunky hardware. I'm not the target market for a new or nearly new car, but this stuff certainly puts me off buying older cars. If I can't fit a standard headunit that's a potential dealbreaker for me. Would be nice to see some standards return for this kind of stuff, to at least have the option to refresh outdated technology in years to come, or simply replace the junk the car came with in the first place.
As for the original question. Base model/premium badge? No chance. Don't really see the point. Go for the Passat.
Seems to me that you could spec a Passat with tons of cool stuff and it’d come out the same or a bit more than a basic E-Class.
So which would you go for? For me it’d be more gadgets.
Surely the old Passat has lots of life left in it :-)?
Depends what you are missing out on the base spec car. From a practical sense, there are other factors that should be considered in this scenario, depending on how you buy/finance/lease the car. You will loose a much bigger chunk of cash in depreciation on a Passat with £10k of options than a base spec E-Class (even taking into account the different depreciation curves of the standard vehicles). Less important if you think you will be keeping it for 10+ years.
My Passat is full of clever tech and some of its very nice but two days ago it threw a bloody great electrical wobbly, which I now have to pay to fix.
So what I really want is a car that's built properly and has a long warranty.
More seriously there's virtually nothing about this well spec'd car that i would miss compared to the much more basic Mondeo that this car replaced. And the Mondeo drove better.
If you are genuinely looking at whether your radio buttons are plated in llama tooth enamel or are worried about audio description of your Facebook feed then I'd suggest you might want to spend more time looking out of the windows.
with short term nature of new car ownership promoted by PCH and PCP
Or not actual ownership ... just liability??
Though I completely agree, the new car market is driven by short term "ownership" .. even when someone is actually buying the majority are just looking to have a car for 1-2 years.
In many cases it seems the entire car is built on a premise the original owner will never need to change a bulb as they will have sold the car long before the first bulb needs replacing. Replacing those and whatever electronics are required to simply drive the car is the problem of the subsequent owners.
The tech is an interesting one and something I’ve found poor in many of the cars I’ve been in. Clunky software running on clunky hardware. I’m not the target market for a new or nearly new car, but this stuff certainly puts me off buying older cars. If I can’t fit a standard headunit that’s a potential dealbreaker for me. Would be nice to see some standards return for this kind of stuff, to at least have the option to refresh outdated technology in years to come, or simply replace the junk the car came with in the first place.
That's sorta the whole point ... I've lost count of the number of SatNav screens used to mount a phone holder... of course you can't do this if it pops away...
The missus has a fairly new car (2015 if I remember) but you can't actually "drive it" without the LCD touch screen - at least if you want to do something like autostart/stop or turn off the tyre indicator warning or .... access some of the useful functions like MPG...
The SatNav... probably looked state of the art in 2015 .. the rear parking camera was possibly OK etc.
My brother has a fairly newish Defender... (obviously way more expensive) but everything is fixable. (well not everything but stuff like the hot/cold vents are mechanical... antenna etc.)
Some of the stuff in the last 20yrs is genuinely useful..(ABS, traction control, AC, central locking, heated windscreen and mirrors etc) but I reckon a lot of it is just what would be bloatware on a computer.
It's a few pence worth of electronics that can be sold for a few hundred or thousand.
(e.g. a GPS chip or a accelerometer, Wifi or bluetooth cost pennies in bulk and a half decent camera module for a phone <£10)
sbobMember
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving
😂
My Passat is full of clever tech and some of its very nice but two days ago it threw a bloody great electrical wobbly, which I now have to pay to fix.
So what I really want is a car that’s built properly and has a long warranty.
Buy new, or accept that the huge saving you make in buying second hand has inherent risks? If those risks weren't there nobody would ever buy a new car.
I would only spec extra stuff you actually need. So for me, not much at all tbh. I don't need a car to talk to my phone, or require apps, mood lighting, auto lights/wipers/remove brain things, heated seats......arrrrgh, it's all bollocks and I can't stand it.
Get the nicer basic one.
sbob
Member
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving
@retro83 ... I would need a real good reason to go back to a FWD car.
The ‘almost’ invisible element heat screen is a Ford only thing I believe. All the others use the aircon to dry the screen but they can’t really defrost,
My Panda 4x4 has this. As nixie mentioned so do some others.
" I would need a real good reason to go back to a FWD car."
Id need a really good reason to give a shit which wheels are driven*
*regular driver of FWD,RWD and AWD vehicles - they all get me there while adhering to the speed limit with varying amounts of stuff - No getting the back out end out , making progress or hooning around here 😀
with the exception of cruise control , i really like cruise control/speed limiter due to all the new average speed cameras on the roads near me - lets me set my speed and watch what the idiots around me are doing instead of having to constantly monitoring the speedo. Get on the dualer and because its a berlingo - i set the cruise to 45mph and watch the chaos happen around my mobile road block*^2
*^2 joe king for the hard of thinking
@retro83 … I would need a real good reason to go back to a FWD car.
That's fine, good for you. I was laughing at the recommendation of picking a car based solely on this for 'driving enjoyment'.
For example, for driving enjoyment, would you take an Lexus LS over a Renaultsport Megane RS?
Or a 130i over a Fiesta ST?
Or a Ssangyong Rhodius over an S Max?
Or a 318i SE over a Honda Civic Type R?
Couldn't give a monkeys about tech, less the better the better for me.
Give me something that's an enjoyable drive and goes well, will be getting an older car and using it less when my current car goes.
a bit of both. I hate peasant spec cars and have always gone for better specced ones, but I'm also a brand snob and tend to prefer german cars
I'm not so fussed about age though so my option is to look a bit harder and find the right car in the right spec in the right condition
My only new car and leased cars was through my dad when he was in the trade. Otherwise they've all been bought second hand for cash
Last summer I hired a car and they gave me a top spec peugeot 3008.
it had a nice looking digital dash display but what a ****ing nightmare if you wanted to change anything while driving. By anything I mean, heat controls were in a menu, radio, where the air vents blew all in a menu or sub menu.
it was a shit car but even shitter that they went all out for tech rather than the drivers ability to drive.
anyway. Sometimes the options you think are helpful are in fact shite and the ones which you don’t think you’ll use, are fantastic.
remote boot open / close. Awesome.
remote boot open / close. Awesome.
I have minions do that for me, including doors.
I also have a clap-lamp in my study. clap-clap On. clap-clap Off. clap-clap On. clap-clap Off.
Oh the fun I have.
You will loose a much bigger chunk of cash in depreciation on a Passat with £10k of options than a base spec E-Class
Which is brilliant for 2nd hand buyers like me.
We looked at replacing our Gawd Awful Ford Ranger on the Farm with one of these, the original Boggo one was excellent spec.. it had rubber mats, plastic seats, wipe clear dash, a radio with big buttons and a heater control unit with a massive dial.. Awesome.. the car was cheap too.. but now they've gone and got "people/focus groups" involved and it's now comparatively as expensive/close to a Subaru XV (that has loads of kit on and yet is technically difficult to use)
The ‘almost’ invisible element heat screen is a Ford only thing I believe.
Ford held the patent so no-one else could do it, but the patent expired a few years ago which is why you're now seeing it on other marques.
That’s fine, good for you. I was laughing at the recommendation of picking a car based solely on this for ‘driving enjoyment’.
And yet you resort to comparing apples to oranges to try and make your point?
Why not pick two similar cars?
Because it would only reinforce the opinion that there are two ways to drive a car; rear wheel drive and wrong wheel drive.
sbobAnd yet you resort to comparing apples to oranges to try and make your point?
Why not pick two similar cars?
Because it would only reinforce the opinion that there are two ways to drive a car; rear wheel drive and wrong wheel drive.
I was trying to be kind to you sbob, but to be honest you're talking absolute shit.
Here's what you said:
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving
Total rubbish and the 'wrong wheel drive' comment backs it up.
Depends on the options, depends what I need it for.
Less premium car, minimal extras, more money for important stuff like fun cars or bikes.
