[Closed] More pregnancy conumdrums... more advice/thoughts invited...

imho it's selfish to have a baby

Easy - it's [i]her[/i] body.

OTOH - make sure she gets lots of advice from other parents. I found the whole idea completely overwhelming and might even have reached the same conclusion as her at one point. However, I soon moved on from that and wouldn't now have wanted to miss the whole parenthood thing.

Saying you're going to break up with her if she has an abortion is a bit harsh!

If she doesn't want a kid its her call, best you can do is provide support either way imo.

I'd not want any woman with that outlook having a baby TBH, the child is going to be resented forever and she'll be miserable.

It takes two to tango, and it looks like the lady ain't dancing pal.
🙁

Saying you're going to break up with her if she has an abortion is a bit harsh!

Haven't said that... what I've said is that I don't know how I'll feel and it's a risk she has to consider. One of her negatives for having the baby is that I'll leave her and she'll be stuck with it (my Dad and Grandfather both walked out on their wives, so I guess she feels it might be a family trait 🙁 )

The time isn't right for her, if she changes her mind in future you can have one then

imho it's selfish to have a baby

I'd have agreed on that, but now that one's turned up I don't feel it's right to not take the responsibility?

Thats a really tough one and ive never been in any situation like it.

Not much help but maybe a good thing to do is to try and talk with her about your feelings?

FWIW I dont think you are blackmailing her nor her to you just that it sounds like you have differing opinions, and if this was over pizza toppings there would be an easy compromise but prob not with this

no doubt someone will be along with something much more constructive or helpful.

Hope it works out for the best tho

Pregnancy isn't necessarily hell.

If she gets fat, she can get thin again - breast feeding can do that for you.

Kids can be awful but awful kids are usually from awful parents ime. Kids can be absolutely lovely, and a great on-going experience.

Kids are made entirely from you and your partner - this is cool, and means when you die part of you lives on 🙂

Your life is DEFINITELY not over when you have a kid. The way I see it you are two people on a journey through life. When a kid comes along, you are just three people on that journey. You are not slaves to your kid. You just have to sit down and figure things out so that you can all get the things you need and have a good time.

Although it sounds a bit to me like she has a pretty negative outlook on life. Maybe THAT is what needs to be worked on?

Oh - another thought. If you didn't really want kids, why hadn't you had a vasectomy?

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me, the things that are confided to stw!

Scienceofficer is right about the resentment, especially (if you have the baby) in the first 18 months or so, when it does [b]really[/b] change your lives. The baby is so helpless and dependent on you for everything that nothing is the same.
But, you do get used to it. You do grow to love it more and more and it becomes something TOTALLY GREAT in your life.
IMO the first 18 months will be absolutely crucial.

Only you two can make the decision.

Houns - Member
imho it's selfish to have a baby

That's exactly what selfish people say

Only[b] she[/b] can make the decision - you can help. support, advise but its her decision about her body.

If she doesn't want a kid she doesn't want one

I certainly would never have wanted a child at any time - my life as I want to live it would be over. Very selfish but thats how it is

That's exactly what selfish people say

+1

Personally I've found fatherhood to be the most affirming and meaningful thing I've ever experienced. That doesn't mean to say that there aren't times when having no money, almost no social life and sod all time to ride don't weigh heavily. It's a rare person, I think, who regrets becoming a parent in the long run but I certainly don't go around pestering childless friends about their plans, each to their own.
There is one definite in all this though (and this is coming from someone whose wife suffered major post-natal depression), if you love your other half you have to be prepared to abide by their decisions (agree to all mad requirements until the mother realises the child isn't going to explode at the drop of a hat) and weather a lot of hormonal abuse.

P.S. Never, ever say they look fat, even if you're joking.

It's a serious dilemna - particularly as it's not planned. You can only say your piece, and then support her decision one way or the other - can't be easy having an abortion. To support your own postion, the best thing to do is to follow Druidh's advice and get your wife speaking to parents like me - people who were equivocal on having kids but found that once we did it was the best decision we ever made in our lives.

Oh - another thought. If you didn't really want kids, why hadn't you had a vasectomy?

It was in the thoughts, but never got round to it...

The way I see it you are two people on a journey through life. When a kid comes along, you are just three people on that journey.

That's pretty much my view... we're at a crossroads (yet another!) and whilst one 'life' or stage ends if we have the kid, another begins and who knows if it'll be a good stage or not? I can't see the future and tbh I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the million things that can happen to influence that future, but I think my wife does do this and seems to be only seeing the negatives at the moment

Not the selfish thing again...having a baby is most certainly not selfish in the sense that you have to give up a lot of freedom. Perhaps it is if you can't afford to support it though and expect the state to cover you - I mean in the sense of being responsible for your actions.

OTOH selfish people shouldn't have babies for obvious reasons.

As for a couple having kids - I don't agree it's the woman's decision as it's a joint thing. I couldn't terminate a healthy baby but then I probably wouldn't be with a woman who could.

I certainly would never have wanted a child at any time - my life as I want to live it would be over. Very selfish but thats how it is

Do you have kids now though TJ?

not good mate, feel for you
As a recent father (4 weeks today) who initially felt probably similar to your wife (not ready and could only see the negatives) all I can say is it is the most amazing yet tiring experience ever

1st time my wife had a miscarriage. TBH I wasnt prepared for having a baby at the time so it was in a way a bit of a relief to me. But when we had it officially confirmed that the baby was gone the feeling of grief and emotion was something I never imagined I could feel and I will never forget the baby that never was, so I can understand your feelings totally

Taking her excuses (sorry reasons) one by one -

1 - money, if you wait until you think you can afford it then you will never start a family. Seriously though its not really expensive. Nursery furniture is most expensive thing, rest its unbelivable how many freebies you get and presents etc. We havent had to buy any clothes / nappies etc yet she has a wardrobe full, more than she could ever wear
Obviously its ongoing and the expense never lets up but you adapt your lifestyle and budgets to cope, you have to Im sure my future isnt going to be easy, and it will be financially strained, but Im sure we will manage. We always do, somehow. because thats life

2 - Just Vanity I'm afraid, its a temporary situation and besides pregnancy isnt 'fat' there is something beautiful and glowing about a pregnant woman. Always thought that a bit cheesy but it was true, my wife never looked halthier tan the last 9 months, clear skin good complexion etc, probably due to the hormonal changes etc she was going through

3 - What is so hell about the 9 months? okay some discomfort sleeping, some morning sickness etc but my wife survived it. It is nothing the female body isnt designed to do. Again just an irrational but perfectly natural fear. Unfortunately this is a hard one to argue as 'men dont experience the pain'

4 - 20 years of pain. Yes but think of all the good things. The bond between you, the laughs, funny moments, the firsts, the proud achievemnents. Personally I cant wait to teach her how to ride a bike etc already at 4 weeks the first signs of simple recognition just make me feel so proud and important in that little things life

5 - Life over / change
That is somethig you have to accept, yes its a big change but its no means over. I still get out on the bike or have a beer, the wife is returning to swimming and netball etc very soon. There are two of us to be there so there is time for each one to take turns looking after whilst the other continues 'life'
We still see our friends etc
Ok expensive foriegn holidays are out for a few years, we never got to tour India etc but there is plenty of time later in life for that now, We now have other priorities
Personally I feel like my life has just started not finished. I have a new and important purpose to my life and its the best feeling I have ever experienced

Its a tough one but you need to discuss it at length, I would imagine though you are probably right about it putting a serious strain on your future relationship and that is something you have to also discuss, you cant afford to hide your feelings from her

Good luck

puts into words pretty much exactly what I'm thinking and trying to get across to her, thanks Iain...

Me - No kids. Nearly 50 now. I like to be able to go and do things I want to when I want to. Very selfish of me. going backpacking this weekend - not possible with a child

Makes me laugh all these "you're selfish, kids are evil etc etc " type people. What if your parents had thought like that???? There's one to ponder over you numpties!!

IMO if she goes ahead with the termination against your (true) wishes it will always be there at the back of every argument and disagreement, if your relationship is strong than you may cope, can I be rude and ask how old your partner is?

As an aside, I am not a natural father but I am now a proud dad of 7 weeks, believe you me it's far away from all bad.

The fact is, you (as a couple) can have as many children as you choose. So if she terminates this one then reflects that she shouldn't have, it will be possible to have another.

Wait till you're ready and you're looking forward to it (if it happens). It's not as if there's a shortage of people on the planet.

And my experience is that we have 3 children (all planned) but we were expecting a 4th (unplanned) and seriously considered a termination until Mrs BJ miscarried - to our great releif.

Do not blackmail her into having the child - that way lies disaster. I know a couple in this sort of situation - she got pregnant unexpectedly - He pressured her into having the child ( she would have aborted). 10 yrs on they are miserable and so is the child. Their relationship is on and off, she resents him for persuading her to have the child.

can I be rude and ask how old your partner is?

I'm 33 and she's 31. We did discuss kids ages ago and we kind of agreed 'well when we're 30 we'll think about it'... this was back before we got married, so 5-6 years ago. My thoughts back then were that I didn't want kids, didn't want the responsibility and handicap to my life etc. And in all honesty this is still how I feel in some ways, given a choice (ie. if we weren't pregnant and were discussing whether to try) I'd almost certainly not want to have a child. But now that we are pregnant, I really don't feel it's right to [i]not[/i] take up the responsibility... in effect, to MTFU and be good Dad & partner...

I tentatively disagree that it is only a decision she makes - it's her body but the life inside is 50 percent yours and it took two people to put it there. The best thing would be to discuss and agree a way forward but you're in a horrible situation.
The money thing - people muddle through. It's not the end of the world. You don't need a Bugaboo; I have friends who kitted themselves out with everything for free from friends, family and freecycle.
The life change - yes, your lives together will change. Having been a no-children-for-me man my whole life I've spent a lot of time with my little nephew over the last couple of years and reversed my opinion. It's hard, stressful, monotonous at times but it's also wonderful, moving and hilarious at other times.
The termination - don't underestimate the psychological impact of this. IMO, it's not something to enter into lightly.
Perhaps talk about how she sees your life together in 10, 20 years - with or without children?

Personally I can't wait to tour India with my daughter.. Giving her the chance to experience the world's wonder is really exciting for me.. better than just doing it on my own! 😀

Oh and in terms of necessary expenses and all - it's nothing. Just ask around people you know. We hardly spent anything, even though we could have afforded to. Got a cot from a friend, painted up it looked great. Didn't get a pushchair straight away, used slings.. coat of paint in the spare room; made some curtains to match; boxes on shelves for clothes storage; we got given a TON of clothes both new and used; car seat from eBay (used once or so).. that's basically it. Don't really need anything for the kid except for a place to sleep and something for it to wear.

Just don't get carried away with the hysteria and life will be better.

Gnarman - its not[i] We are[/i] pregnant - its [i]she is.[/i]

Her fears are not unusual. My wife felt pretty low in her first pregnancy but now she wouldn't miss the kids for anything. Be clear about your opposition to abortion but be supportive in every otehr way and she may come round. Good luck to you both - I hope it works out for you.

Do not blackmail her into having the child - that way lies disaster.

Oh, I know that as well... and I don't want her to have it if she genuinely will be resentful and miserable, we won't survive that either I don't think. But I also don't know if we'll survive not having it... we might be fine, I honestly don't know.

Corroded - of course it is her decision - if she wants a termination and he doesn't then she has one.

TandemJeremy - Member
Me - No kids. Nearly 50 now

gnarman - how recently did you find out?
sounds to me she might need a couple of weeks to get used to the idea. If you have time, support her but don't let her rush into any sudden desision
I have friends that had abortions years ago (it was right for them at the time no question). I would say the experience changed them, and that is just what I saw from the outside as a good friend with little emotional connections

Gnarman - its not 'We are pregnan't - its 'she is'.

Don't agree with that, sorry... whilst it's biologically true, I do feel I have a vested interest in this!

going backpacking this weekend - not possible with a child

Why not?

Come on Gnarman - its not possible - we will be walking 20+ miles camping out for 2 nights and carrying all our own kit - no child under about 12 could do that.

Gnarman - its not We are pregnant - its she is.

TJ I find it usually takes two to tango, but being 50, childless and off backpacking (on your own I guess) this weekend perhaps you just need a strong wrist...

do you actually have anything constructive and helpful to add to the debate?

[url= http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Backpacking ]This[/url] is why you can't take a child backpacking 😉

Only she can make the decision - you can help. support, advise but its her decision about her body.

Am I the only person who does nt agree with this ?

Even if looked at from a purely scientific viewpoint the genetic material of the child is a ~50% from the mother and ~50% from the father. So how can it be just her body ?

And obviously at some point before birth its 100% some one elses body.

Personally I take the opinion that you dont want accidentally kills someone so its on the pro-abortion group to prove to me at what point it isnt a separate individual or I'll just assume the safest option with is conception.

I pretty much agree with OP a termination is a serious procedure and obviously will affect both parents and the child/potential child and as the OP says it may affect him emotionally never mind the mother.

I dont really think people should be having terminations willy nilly and OP seems to suggest they are in a reasonably good position to have a child doesnt really seem like any pressing reason to terminate except they might have less time for fun.

do you actually have anything constructive and helpful to add to the debate?

It's cool, TJ's views are relevant definitely. I could be happy being 50 and backpacking with my wife with no kids around! But my conundrum at the moment is more that I'm not happy about the idea of ending a pregnancy that has now occurred...

Makes me laugh all these "you're selfish, kids are evil etc etc " type people. What if your parents had thought like that???? There's one to ponder over you numpties!!

That's a bit harsh, as that is there opinion which does hold some truth. No need to throw insults around just because you don’t agree with someone.

The answer is there would be one less person in the world. Which isn’t exactly a bad thing now, is it?

To answer the OP, it's her choice. Stand by her whatever she desi

Ian - no - going with my (female)parter of 30 yrs.

My addition to the debate - trying to cut thru the crap and to give an alternative point of view.

I cannot stand the attitude of a man saying "we are pregnant" 'cos its just utter drivel. She is pregnant. The couple is not an indivisible item its two people only one of who is pregnant.

anyway - I have made my point. I believe in a womans right to chose and I have seen the situation the OP is in when the woman was pursuaded to have the child end in a right mess.

Edit - ta Gnarman - I was trying to be helpful if not what you wanted to hear

What a horrible situation to be in gnarman 🙁

I don't think it would be unreasonable to end a relationship over something like this - after all, there's no compromise scenario, is there? Do you want kids?

I couldn't imagine life without my little boy, and I feel like my life has truly begun, not ended (and I speak as someone who had a LOT of "freedom"!).