[Closed] moral dilema - what would you do??

Tell them of their mistake IMO

I would let them know. Similar thing happened to me (albeit in an LBS) and I don't think I would have enjoyed living with the 'what if they find out'....

They did the same to me and within 3 days had called me and collected the second one.

Its theft and not worth the fallout.

It's not actually a moral dilemma at all is it?

guess thats decided then lol.... phone call to apple in the morning

Hold on, isn't there some law that says if you are sent something unsolicited you can keep it?

I disagree with early posts. It is up to you to ensure that your Income tax code is correct, so as far as I am concerned it is up to the vendor to ensure they send out the correct order. It's their mistake. I would hang on to it for a bit and see if they ask for it back. You could sell it and put the proceeds in an offshore bank account. Nothing immoral about it. I am sure Apple would agree.

Hold on, isn't there some law that says if you are sent something unsolicited you can keep it?

would they even know i received an extra one?

invoice and order clearly state 1 x mbp

Your first mistake was buying it from Apple, not a retailer who pays proper UK tax (e.g. John Lewis).

Personally I'd stick it under the bed and forget about it for a while - if they ask for it back I'd surrender it immediately, otherwise I'd hang onto it.

Nobody is saying you have to do the same.

They gave it to you - don't see how it can be theft.

Careful now, if you don't send back the extra laptop then the loss incurred by apple might force them into bankruptcy.

I'd keep it for a month, if it's all quiet then sell.

I wouldn't sell the second one. I'd return the first one for a full refund under the Distance Selling regulations instead

Its theft and not worth the fallout.

tell them but it's up to them to collect it. If they don't, it's yours.

It's the right thing to do. When you talk to them, point out repeatedly that you're doing the right thing.

I wouldn't sell the second one. I'd return the first one for a full refund under the Distance Selling regulations instead

You sir, are a genius!

Do you have a delivery note or a copy of the delivery note you signed does it say one or 2 on there?

says 1

And I have a rule - if Mrs Miggins local shop gives me the wrong change, I'll give it back. If McDonalds do, tough, I'm having it.

It's probably illegal

I, however would keep quiet. Leave it boxed up and return IF they ask for it.

Their screw up. They need to rectify. They'd be paying for collection too.

I'd also be checking my bank account to see what I've been charged for.

Not saying that's the "right" thing to do. Just what I'd do.

It's probably illegal

I, however would keep quiet. Leave it boxed up and return IF they ask for it.

Their screw up. They need to rectify. They'd be paying for collection too.

I'd also be checking my bank account to see what I've been charged for.

already checked cc statement... only been charged for one

I'd be practicing responding to a phone call with, "oh yes, I was wondering when you where going to collect that"

I'd be saying 'nope, I got the one I ordered and is stated on the delivery note, prove otherwise'.

How on earth is it theft? If someone came to your house and left their expensive watch, did you steal it?

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding ]Theft by finding[/url] or some such

To be honest, you should never have posted this. You never know who might see it now. The fact your username is close to whatever your real name is and your email is in your profile doesn't help.

EDIT: Remember if you do sell and the buyer ever returns it to Apple for a repair, things could start to get interesting.

If you buy something from an independent then obviously fess up and return. This happened to me once and they gave me 10% off forever for my honesty ! However in your case you are dealing with ghastly Apple. Clearly it is your moral duty to keep it.

Orange did the same to me some years ago with a new phone - conscience got the better of me so I rang and told them. Guy at customer services told me 'As far as we are concerned Mr Oink - we have only delivered you one' Result, sold on the 'Bay for £150! 😀

Did he actually say 'mr Oink'?

Thanks Mac. That cleared it up. Well as much as by saying the law isn't clear

OP - just keep it.

If it was me, I'd probably keep it for a while and if they hadn't chased it up then sell it on eBay as a 50% charity listing with £0.99 starting price and no reserve. That way make some money for yourself and give some to a charity.

How is keeping it not theft! It's obviously a mistake!

If it was me, I'd probably keep it for a while and if they hadn't chased it up then sell it on eBay as a 50% charity listing with £0.99 starting price and no reserve. That way make some money for yourself and give some to a charity.

might just do that... hell, worst that could happen is that i get charged for the second one.. at least i would have done my bit for charity 😉

Thanks Mac. That cleared it up. Well as much as by saying the law isn't clear

The finder must take reasonable steps to locate the owner

Seems clear enough - the instances where larceny wasn't upheld were where un-labelled/ untraceable items such as money were found in public spaces, where nothing about the item or the location gives a lead as to who the legitimate owner might be. Cases where it was upheld were where things are found relating to customers, or transactions or identifiable premises. In your case theres no question where the laptop came from - its got their name on it and arrived in a package with their return address on. So you don't even need to take a reasonable step.

As a contrast. We received a package with some wheel trims in last week. Unknown name but my address (a named house rather than a number and our full address and postcode so its not a typo). Left at the door by the courier, no consignment note or return address, unbranded items in unbranded packaging. I know all my neighbours here, so I know its not for any of them. So theres a limit to what reasonable steps I can take to identify either the intended recipient and no steps I can take to identify the vendor.

Karma?

Post them an empty envelope with post office proof of posting, then keep it

if it ever comes to anything, you point to your proof of posting as proof that you wrote to them and informed them of their error, but they failed to pick it up - lack of dishonesty, ergo no theft charges.

Theft doesn't require dishonesty.

eBay the second one, donate proceeds to tax man to offset Apple's missing tax dues.

Its unsolicited goods see [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsolicited_goods ]here[/url]

Toy19 😀 think you've just made his day!

So at a small bikeshop the Sat boy accidently put a front and a rear XTR brakeset in the bag instead of just a front.

Would you take it back? Its paid for itself now cos I got one free?

'They can afford to lose one' doesnt make it better.

Do the right thing. Live by your morals.

What next? You are given a tenner extra at Tesco. Their evil so its ok to keep it?

Would I keep it? I'd call. Yes it might get lost in their stock system back/end up being pinched anyway but it wasnt ours to pinch..

What out for WiKi... Often wrong.

[url= http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/30/section/1/enacted ]unsolicited good and services act 1971[/url]

If I understand the legal speak correctly you have two routes to ownership...

1. Wait six months and if Apple do not try to recover the goods you can do as you wish.
2. Send them a letter giving them 30 days to collect, if they don't you can also do as you wish.

Looks like the law is being amended though and maybe to cover events such as this due to the amount of distance selling now taking place.

If it was me I'd take option 2 and write a letter. Honest and you can sleep well, you never know you might be ignored and can keep the goods legally.

8)

[url= http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nireland/consumer_ni/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_problems_with_delivery_e/consumer_unsolicited_goods_e/youve_received_goods_or_services_you_didnt_ask_for_distance_sales.htm ]Unsolicited goods[/url]

Looks legal to keep them. It's apple we're talking about, not your local bike shop.

Keep it. Deny all knowledge of it if Apple contact you. Sell it next month or make someone happy with it. Don't tell anyone you don't trust (oops, too late).

Yes, keep it. And if the guilt is keeping you awake at night send them a packet of hobnobs with a thank you note.

A thieves mentality is if its not nailed down or if you haven't taken enough care then its open season.

So this is a middle-class version of pinching a bike off the street

😉

I could live with that, quite easily.

Soooooo what makes this any different to classifieds fraud?

The end result is gaining possession of something that you hadn't paid for.

Don't use the classifieds, too many crooks about.

If someone posted me something I neither requested, nor paid for.

It'd be up to them to rectify their mistake, not me.

Soooooo what makes this any different to classifieds fraud?

A) He didn't set out to commit a crime as is the case in classifieds fraud.
B) In this case no crime has been committed, he has a legal right to keep the laptop.

HTH

To be honest, I'd expect Apple to contact the OP fairly soon. Unless some Warehouse Op has really screwed it up.

They should have allocated the IMEI to the delivery at some point, and this should get flagged up fairly soon when they realise its not where it's supposed to be. It wouldn't surprise me if another Apple customer has already phoned them asking where the product is.

They also might notice the delivery for one laptop was twice as heavy as it should have been.

he has a legal right to keep the laptop.

How? (Genuine, not a STW-arguing for arguing sake)

[i]The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations say you have a right to keep goods delivered to you that you didn’t ask for.

If you receive goods you have not ordered, you can treat the goods as an unconditional gift and you can do what you want with them.

If you receive a demand for payment for unsolicited goods or services, you can ignore it. If the trader does this, they may have committed a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.[/i]

[url= http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nireland/consumer_ni/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_problems_with_delivery_e/consumer_unsolicited_goods_e/youve_received_goods_or_services_you_didnt_ask_for_distance_sales.htm ]See here[/url]

You have to consider how theft (if this technically is) will affect the 'victim'.

In this case, personally, I would keep it.

Made myself chuckle, just thinking about what sort of idiot proof procedures Apples logistics provision will have for despatching these high value products.

Then I thought about the variety of warehouse Ops I known and worked with. Ranging from angry, uninterested, soul destroyed, to barely above vegetable.

I'd send it back. But that's about personal morals, and how I'd like to be treated in return.

But it isn't always easy. I tried returning some batteries purchased off a trader who used "fulfilled by amazon" where amazon had sent out 80 rechargeables instead of 8, and only billed me for 8. The trader was very appreciative. Amazon were a bunch of obstructive twunts.

As soon as anyone plugs a Net cable into the machine you didn't buy Apple will find it and and try to link it to a sale and a customer. They'll fail but whether they will link it to the OP I have no idea.

I bet you'd have been straight on the phone if you'd ordered 2 and only 1 turned up. I say ring them but its up to them to arrange collection.

The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations say you have a right to keep goods delivered to you that you didn’t ask for.

If you receive goods you have not ordered, you can treat the goods as an unconditional gift and you can do what you want with them.

If you receive a demand for payment for unsolicited goods or services, you can ignore it. If the trader does this, they may have committed a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

This reminds me of the sad story of the bikeshop employee who sold a bike and miss-keyed a 0 and ended up about 1k out.

It was noticed later (cashing up? Or balancing) and they traced/called the new owner who basically avoided them.

Apparently he was within his rights as he said he'd bought the bike for what he considered to be a fair price. It'd have cost them alot via a legal/more Solicitors advice to recover the money.

He got a cheap bike.

I wonder what his conscience is like? 'They can afford it'?

I'd ring up, if no courier showed then I'd leave it boxed ready. If not after a month or so I'd consider it abandoned. At what point/size of business do you consider it automatically fair game?

At what point/size of business do you consider it automatically fair game?

Personally, I've had this happen to me albeit a lower cost item, I rang the company and told them.

They wanted me to sit in all day and wait for a courier, ie take a day off work, which I deemed to be unreasonable so I left the item on the doorstep for two months, it's now mine.

Send them a note stating there may be a discrepancy with your delivery and asking them to contact you.

You have to consider how theft (if this technically is) will affect the 'victim'.

In this case, personally, I would keep it.

Depends whether the 'victim' ends up being Apple, or some grunt on mininum wage who picked the item incorrectly.

Depends whether the 'victim' ends up being Apple, or some grunt on mininum wage who picked the item incorrectly.

I find it hard to imagine this would be just one grunts fault. There should be multiple checks before despatch. Picking, packing, goods out.

I'd also 'like' to imagine they batched IMEIs together by the pallet, or similar. Once the pallets empty the product in question should be flagged as missing.

I had to ring up CRC the other day. They sent me a packet of Haribos by mistake. They claimed it was some kind of 'customer gift', so I can only assume that this is the case with your extra laptop.

I'd let them know. As someone else point out above, I'd be worried about selling it on and then Apple picking up on it when registered/connected online.

A few years ago I treated my mum to a stay over at a De Vere hotel not too far from us.

There were 4 of us dining on the Saturday night and this accounted for most of the cost of the weekend, the bill for food/booze ought to have been around £700.

After we'd eaten, we asked for coffee to be brought to a wee drawing room just off the restaurant. It was late, so we finished the last of the booze, drank our coffees and headed to bed.

I was sat at the check out desk the next morning with a sore head and they handed me my bill to look over. The meal from the night before was missing. I pointed this out and the girl joked that it's not often guests highlight the stuff missing from their bill.

She went off to find my signed bill but was unable to locate it. I told her I didn't remember actually signing anything and told her about moving from the restaurant to the drawing room etc just after the meal.

She said she would be unable to charge me for the meal without the bill and that it would therefore not be added to my final bill!

wtf!! I told them I was perfectly happy for them to put a new bill together, was told that wouldn't be necessary and at which point I received an elbow from mrs file so we let the matter drop. I didn't feel particularly happy when I left since I was concerned the very nice man who looked after us during dinner may get his backside kicked.

To be honest, that's the hoteliers fault. Somebody should get an arse kicking.

It's not like you dived out an open window and legged it.

I find it hard to imagine this would be just one grunts fault. There should be multiple checks before despatch. Picking, packing, goods out.

Yes, processes should in place. But mistakes happen, and I doubt whether the CEO of Apple will take the flack, so someone at a relatively low level would get the blame for this kind of thing, while some lucky bugger is at home polishing the screen on their free laptop.

Ha! Is it a moral dilemma? Wouldn't be for me!
(ps. I was brought up in Leigh Park)

Apple UK resolving the issue today

[img] [/img]

Piemonster, that's brilliant! 😆

I remember On-One sent me two Pompino frames, when I only ordered and paid for one, I thought long and hard about it before my conscience got the better of me and I called them up to tell them of the mistake, felt a little better as at the time they still seemed to be a small company.

just to update, spoke to apple yesterday, i am now the owner of a second macbook pro... was able to buy it with a nice discount 😉 gotta love karma.....

tell them, karma and all that, your brakes will fail next week...

So not an error but a bit of shrewd marketing 🙂

Hang on a minute... did you actually want 2 MacBook pros or was the nice discount so large that you could not refuse.
Checks classifieds for recent listing of MacBook pro, unwanted gift 😀

EDIT - tits. Wrong thread

Wrong thread mac? 😉