[Closed] MIS FUEL

TBH, I amazed that you couldn't tell the difference while driving it. I've also never seen a diesel (I've owned/driven more than a dozen) which didn't have a sticker in the fuel cap area.
And why would you assume it was petrol?

thanks druidh.. I assumed it was petrol cuz no one said otherwise, no stickers and no it didn't sound (engine noise or performance ) like a diesel

now then if you want to kick me...line up.. but I was really looking for helpful info at this point..

the kick me thread is next.

Turn around then.... 😀

Best case scenario? You pay whatever the excess is on the hire agreement. Enterprises (unless you chose the reducer waiver) is about £600!! 😥

Cancel your credit card now before they dish out summary justice **

You can start arguing later whether or not & how much you owe

** not entirely sure this will stop them charging against it though

EDIT: have you got signed paperwork from them accepting the car back in good condition?

unfortunately, somewhere on the rental agreement it probably says what the fuel is - in the car description. I don't think 'i assumed it was just petrol' will do... most new cars sold these days in the UK are diesel (i read somewhere).

what was the car? Also surprised there wasn't a sticker/mark on the filler cap or hatch indicating diesel.

Normally tells you on the key ring when I've had hire cars these days what fuel it is.

Or there's always badges on the back which give it away e.g. TDi, CDI etc.

I guess you owe the insurance excess...time to dig out the hire agreement and read the small print!

I don't have a signed return agreement as I dropped the car at the airport and dropped the keys in a box.. the desk was unattended.

there is a tick box on the rental agreement that says it is diesel.. but here is the kick...the airline lost our luggage so I was off attending to that while mrs. did the paperwork. I however am the renter ( credit card name ) and sole driver so "I" was not informed properly ( I believe )

and again.. no tag on key fob, no tag no dash, no tag no fuel filler to say diesel.

and... mrs. takes happy pills to fly...she has a profound fear of flying...you could tell her anything on a "flight day" and she wouldnt remember boo the next day.

"hon, remember the twins, ya.. the Swedish blondes at Gatwick..."

Normally you can tell by the size of the fuel filler i.e. you cannot put diesel in a petrol car as the nozzle won't fit but unfortunately diesel will go in a petrol...oh

Not sure that 'not being informed properly' is good enough for the hire company!

Dispute it. HONESTLY- whose to say a staff member didnt misfuel the car after you had dropped off?

sharkey.. it may be... "supply of goods and services act" of 1982... yada yada yada... something something.. duty of supplier to provide info with reasonable care and yada yada..

bro in law just sent that.. it might help.

Dispute it. HONESTLY- whose to say a staff member didnt misfuel the car after you had dropped off?

"who's to say?" proves precisely nothing.

I knew someone who had a the petrol car in green and the diesel in black.

No problems after that.

I think I've pretty much already admitted to misfueling ( depends if they record phone calls ) the dispute now will have to be did I know it was a diesel..and I say they failed to inform me by ANY method.

can I help it if I am naturally stooopid?

thats my defense your honour,.

Ignorance isn't an alibi

Unless you're an MP of course

that helps wozza... thanks, no really.

It's amazing these days how often it's everyone else responsibility but the person who ****ed up.

druid.. this case ( as well as MP s ) ignorance MAY be an alibi.. they had a duty to inform me ( again as I believe ) .. time will tell..

stay tuned.

dooosuk... yes I fugged up...but I ain't buying a new car for Avis when I believe there is shared negligence.

I guess their arguement could be, well they didn't tell you it was unleaded either, so why did you just assume?

dooosuk:

It's amazing these days how often it's everyone eles responsibility but the person who ****ed up.

Amen Brother.

The OP had a mare, so they need to just take the hit in my very humble opinion.

Most rentals I have had that were diesel had a sticker on the fuel filler cap or flap to that effect . not sure how to check whether any others they might have do but if yours didn't (and again how do you prove it if it does now...) you may have a get out.

So your telling me diesel filler caps dont have diesel written inside the filler flap OR on the cap itself? Rubbish.

my renault doesn't hora.

wwaswas:

my renault doesn't hora.

Probably a petrol one then 😉

its going to cost you your excess, as it needs to be drained, and if you are unlucky it will have knackered the pumps and filters.

You can squirm as much as you like but effectively, you made a mistake, so you have to pay for it to be fixed.

As has been said before. Find out the excess and that is what you are going to have to pay.

If you had crashed the car, would you try to get out of it by saying Avis didnt tell you how to drive the thing? It is the drivers responsibility to be competant enough to check a car. You should be able to tell if the tyres are legal, how to top up fluids etc etc, its part of the test. YOU should have asked what fuel if you were unsure.

Its a horrible mistake to make but its your mistake, accept it and deal with it.

Jamie - well it sounds like a diesel now 😉

Yet another "hey STW, I seriously ****ed up, I know it, AVIS know it, in fact we all know it but is there some way I can weasel out of it?" thread.

And we wonder why noone seems to take responsibility anymore.

So, you manage to put the fault back on to the person at the desk who didn't tell you to wear sunglasses with "DIESEL" written across the lens...and hey ho, that person gets the sack, goes onto some other forum, tells his or her story about some bloke who managed to blame him/her for not telling him which fuel to use. How do you think those people would suggest dealing with you? Bommbers? Wee? Shoes?

Pay up...it's your mess.

As has been said before. Find out the excess and that is what you are going to have to pay.

If you had crashed the car, would you try to get out of it by saying Avis didnt tell you how to drive the thing? It is the drivers responsibility to be competant enough to check a car. You should be able to tell if the tyres are legal, how to top up fluids etc etc, its part of the test. YOU should have asked what fuel if you were unsure.

Its a horrible mistake to make but its your mistake, accept it and deal with it.

Spot on.

There's a good chance that the fuel type will be printed on the rental agreement (which you would have signed), as well as on the key fob and somewhere around the filler. I imagine that Avis would also have given you the option to 'buy' a tank of fuel when you collected the car, allowing you to return it empty/part empty, and negating the need for you to fill it up at all.

If any or all of the above were true (and I'd be surprised if at least one wasn't) then I'd imagine they'd have pretty strong argument to justify that they had provided the necessary information, and given you a get-out if you had been in any doubt (by not having to re-fuel). Probably stronger than your argument that they didn't tell you.

I reckon that there's a pretty even split for rental cars between petrol and diesel in the UK/Europe, so it's pretty dangerous to assume either one way or the other.

The thing is - the OP admits it was his fault but felt he had mitigating circumstances and wanted to know what his liability may be in his specific circumstances.

But, as usual, some members love to attack like a pack of dogs before actually considering what is being asked.

What mitigating circumstances.

Sorry if my post came across as an attack, it wasnt meant that way.

[i]that helps wozza... thanks, no really. [/i]

My mate got a brown car... i'll leave the rest up to your imagination.

What mitigating circumstances.

Don't get me wrong - I am not saying he is right (or wrong), but he does feel he might have mitigating circumstances and is asking for opinions on it.

I simply feel several people have completely misunderstood what he orignally asked.

mastiles_fanylion:

The thing is - the OP admits it was his fault but felt he had mitigating circumstances and wanted to know what his liability may be in his specific circumstances.

But, as usual, some members love to attack like a pack of dogs before actually considering what is being asked.

If by attacking you mean people stating that his mitigating circumstances probably will not stand up to the scrutiny AVIS will apply then its still no.

That is fair enough - perhaps he doesn't have a case but he DID accept it was his fault and was merely asking the question.

Never mind ehh?

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How much petrol did you put in?
How much diesel was already in the tank?

Unless it was mostly petrol - you stand a good chance that nothing is damaged but I suspect Avis may want to milk it for all its worth.

Do you have any other car or credit card insurance that may cover it?

Again, unless you were specifically told it was a petrol car, I can't see how your defense of 'I wasn't told it was a diesel' can hold.

OK… time for just a general message…. as said in my original post ( I think ) …yes I screwed up…. and yes I should, and most almost certainly will have to pay for my mistake, and yes if you re’read my original post I was looking for information as to what my liability might be.

Do I think I should have been issued dark glasses with “DIESEL” written on the inside ( no , although I do think they would be pretty fashionable ) or that I should be hand held thru every transaction…. No… but I do think in any rental agreement the vendor has a certain responsibility to inform.

I drive a petrol car here so my first nature is to go to a petrol pump. In every other instance where I have rented a car and that car has been diesel, I have been informed of that ( I wasn’t ) , or there have been visible warnings to the effect “hey d*ckhead, this is a diesel car”. There were none in this case.

Yes I screwed up

, and yes I am probably going to get stuck with some damages, but again, I do not believe I should be shouldered with 100% of those damages for the reason I state and I was trying to find out from the good folk of the STW massive what those damages might be.

And Mastilles_ F, thanks

dooosuk.. I wasnt told it was a petrol.. nor was I told it was a diesel, yet again every other time I have rented a diesel that has been pointed out ...pointed out due to this being an an too common occurrence ( I have found it ) in rental cars.

uplink.. I pretty much filled the tank.. I had driven about 300 miles in the week and this was the morning of return. ... I am still looking into insurance options

And as numerous people have pointed out, it'll be the insurance excess on the policy you took out.

Only you can know that, unless you just assumed it was the same excess as every other insurance policy you'd ever taken out!

Look on Avis's website, I'm sure it'll tell you there.

I wouldn't try the 'you only told my wife and she's on happy pills anyway' tack - they weren't to know that, you were and yet you trusted her with the job of doing the rental bit. Are you sure they didn't tell her and she didn't pass it on?

Time to fess up, but you might be able to get it drained and scrutinised for cheaper than the excess rather than just pay that.

Are you a member of the AA / RAC? Might be wortha call to them, as well as breakdown cover they provide members with advice and where appropriate legal services don't they?

It comes down to two problems.

1) They expect you to have a clue about the sort of car you hire, if you dont know what fuel it takes you should confirm it before fueling it, after all, all it takes is a quick call to the people you hired it off. Personally I have no idea how you wouldn't know it was a D, but I suppose absent-mindedness or a non-car-lover may make that mistake - however it is a mistake that is someones fault. Lack of stickers is not really an excuse, rental companies do not de-badge cars, if you dont know what fuel it is, check the boot for the model type. Why you'd just ASSUME it was petrol is beyond me.

2) Regardless of fault, you can't prove it has no stickers, if you mention this in correspondence they will simply stickerify the car before you come to see it and you lost the argument anyway. You wont take it to court as it's not worth the cash.

Whoopsy!

How do you drive a diesel 15 miles with a tank full of petrol? Didn't know that was possible - surely the car would be in a seriously unhappy state on the road?

In any case, hope you can resolve things without too big a financial penalty.

No… but I do think in any rental agreement the vendor has a certain responsibility to inform.

Rest assured that somewhere in the rental agreement you signed you will have agreed:

* that you have understood the controls / functions of the car
* to take reasonable care of it
* to be responsible for any damage howsoever caused.

Unfortunately, as I said before, the rental company will have themselves well and truly covered.

garry... I don't know.. maybe it had enuf diesel left in.. but I did, and it did.. and thanks.

I've done it at work and given I've not hadn't had a car for 12 years and the works fleet had been diesels for over 10 years I did well. My colleague noticed when you got in the cab and smelt petrol so the vehicle never moved so minimal damage done. Totally my fault as it was for you don't think you can blame them for not informing you, easy enough to check and was just a moment of foolishness.

15 miles is nothing for a diesel it would do that with what was in the fuel line. As for how did you not notice it was a diesel, they are far from chuggy booms the use to be.

even if there's no damage, warranty will be void unless entire fuel system replaced.

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Feel sorry for you pal. Regardless of how sanctamonious i and others are coming across its an easy mistake to make. But it was a mistake 🙁

If I remember from my previous Avis rentals the excess is normally around £600. Which if you've ****ed the Pump and Injectors is a pretty cheap deal as its a 2-3k job to get fixed!

Actually just looking at Avis' web site and one of the specific things not covered by the insurance is mis fueling. Are you with M&S?

PePPer

M&S.. no, but why?

cos you may be covered under their household insurance, for things like this if you had their all expenses policy.

Just deny everything!

You handed the vehicle over in full working condition, they accepted it - they can't prove if it was you, one of their staff, or someone who used the vehicle after you.

Well I'm pretty sure a company as big as Avis holds records of all refueling made by it's staff. I don't think employee can walk away without a receipt so they can probably prove that it wasn't them who refueled it with petrol.

Another case would be if the car was rented out the same day after You returned, but as You wrote they only drove it to the depot and noticed it, plus You know it was You who did that.

The only thing is You dropped the keys in the box, and as no one was at the desk than the agreement wasn't signed by any staff.

Can they just charge You for the cost of the job just like that without prior notice or would Avis have to take You to court?

Looking though the Avis website. Where?! I cant find the clause on mis-fueling. I'd cancel your card asap and look through your paper contract. Mis-fuel is the same as an accident (its accidental damage to your car after all).

[url] http://www.avis.co.uk/VehiclesAndServices/Additional-cover#2 [/url]

this is for the UK site, but knowing avis it will be the same throughout the world

Post on here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=23&mid=70159

thanks PePPer.. the rental was in the UK
and thanks hora.

Going back to;

[i]Dispute it. HONESTLY- whose to say a staff member didnt misfuel the car after you had dropped off? [/i]

I had a dispute with a rental company last year when they tried to charge for refuelling after we had filled it to the brim before return. The receipt was lost so I asked them for proof that they had filled it up, at which point they said 'alright we don't have any proof, here's your money back'.

So I'd suggest if you do want an easier way out, say you returned it empty as you didn't have time to refuel. Obviously no member of staff is going to own up to it, but who would even if they had done it? You might have to pay for a tank of fuel but heh...

Sad to say, hire car companies deserve what they get IMO going from experience.

No probs I feel like a reet **** now as I thought you would be covered by insurance. 🙁

So I'd suggest if you do want an easier way out, say you returned it empty as you didn't have time to refuel. Obviously no member of staff is going to own up to it, but who would even if they had done it? You might have to pay for a tank of fuel but heh...

And besides, that is dishonest and I don't think the OP is wanting to be dishonest (despite some posters beliefs) - he just wants what he sees as fair treatment due to the other party's lack of communication regarding the fuel type.

Just another thought - I particularly HATE diesels (my choice, let's not get into an argument as to why) and if I hired a car I would probably assume it would default to being a petrol and manual unless specifically requested otherwise (or specifically advised otherwise). Obviously it is very easy to tell whether a car is manual, less so (especially for someone who is not car-obsessed like myself) to tell whether it is petrol or diesel.

I pretty much thought.. but didn't want to voice the thought.. that insurance would be invalid.

also looking into this... this org. will apparently act as mediator.
http://www.bvrla.co.uk/Advice_and_Guidance/how_to_handle_complaints.aspx

and once again thanks for the support M_F... and yes I want to be honest and fair, but I don't believe I should have to buy a car for Avis ( without insurance and driving that far there is a good possibilty the car is a write off ) for... a F*ck up, which once again, and I hope so say for the last time was , yes in my belief, a F*ck up on my part as well as the rental agent.

mods... sorry for messing with the swear filter.

i done it once to my seat ibiza diesel. only noticed after paying and looking at the receipt. had to ask myself why i'd paid £1.30 or so /litre as opposed to 90p.

luckily i noticed before starting the car. sent the GF off on the bike whilst i waited for a tow.

took it to a local mechanic and it cost me £60 to put right; tank drained and new filter to be sure. the guy even stuck half a tank of diesel/veg oil mix in in exchange for the petrol he took out.

lucky escape and a mistake i am unlikely to make again.

good luck with Avis. you are in switzerland, like most swiss do you not have personal 3rd party insurance? claim on that?

alpin, I am in CH but remember I am American... not really sure what you mean by personal 3rd party.
I have auto insurance of course ( thru Zurich Insurance ) and am waiting an answer from them if they will cover anything.

Grynch thats why I was asking whether you were in M&S (marks and spencers insurance) cos they give 3rd party insurance with their premier cover.

AFAIK a modern diesel engine will just die and need a flush-through if you've mis-fueled. The engine probably ran as there'll be a pressure accumulator in the in-tank pump, the fuel within sufficient for about 20 miles. The petrol in the lines will simply just not burn once it gets through the injectors.

Petrol engines die quite spectactularly, within a matter of seconds.

Older diesel's would cope with up to 20% contamination after that you'd get damage to the injection pump.

We've got an account with avis and tbh they're not a very good company to deal with. they charged me £80 to fix a puncture. I'd driven from Gatwick south terminal, up to the M23 roundabout and back to the car hire. barstewards. They're constantly trying to charge us for topping up, even though we've all got fuel cards and corporate amexs so we can see that our guys have filed them correctly. But then, they are owned by those lovely people at GE Capital.

Good luck fighting this one. I really hope you win!