I can't provide a source (hey, it's the STW way!) but I'm sure I read among the young alcohol consumption is falling. So perhsps education is playing a part too (and the availability of other substances).
andy4d
"So what will happen if you get the train from Edinburgh to London, will the drink have 2 prices, pre and post border?"
What alcohol can you buy on the train that's under the minimum price?
This will only really affect the price of cheap strong cider such as Frosty Jack. Who drinks that stuff? People with nothing. People who live on the street. People who drink to numb reality. Petty crime will increase as those people now need more money for their fix. People paying £5 for their pint of Peroni need to realise how blessed their lives are compared to some.
Good point northwind....i did not think it through before posting 😀
You can but alcohol for less than £4 a pint in many pubs let alone supermarkets.
Maybe, but probably not in any pub I’d want to drink in, around here, North Wilts, £4/pint is about average, it‘s what I pay for a 3.8-4.0 abv ale. 😕
I don't live in Scotland but am in favour. Both Scotroutes and Northwind ^^^ make good points.
In general I don't like 'nanny state' interventions/interference but this policy is good news - except for those with alcohol addiction and limited financial resources as they are reliant on cheap strong booze.
I have seen the effects of white lightning and the other 'industrial alcohol' brands on the homeless and rough sleepers through my voluntary work; it's not pretty.
Expect Westminster to follow with legislation for England - eventually; why, for once, can they not lead instead of always following?
As for Wrightyson paying £5+ for a pint at a 'venue' - captive audience; you go knowing booze will be overpriced and not the best quality so you either pay the asking price for the razz they're selling or go dry.
I don't think MUP can work on its own but as part of a wider strategy it can work. The real problem will be in addressing what it is about life in Scotland that makes people drink approximately 17% more than other parts of the UK and in doing so to significantly damage their own health and to damage their children's/ partners health and opportunities.
I really hope this gets support from the other parties too
I can remember when a bottle of spirits was for special occasions, and you had to go to a special shop for it, not just bung it in the basket as part of the weekly shop.
I think that was a better way, you could still get hammered, but you had to put a bit of effort in rather than it just being the default.
As a young piss head I would not have been in favour of this at all. As a slightly older person who can now see the mess some people get into I can see some benefit. People will turn to a different drug to get their fix but you can only start to make to make things better if you actually start rather than talk.
i am against the nanny state but as everyone seems to be destroying themselves with food and booze the sensible people have to suffer for the greater good...
actually if they could make processed food and confectionary more expensive or unavailable so I can't get at it that would probably be the only thing to stop me munching down on it...
cornholio98
...the sensible people have to suffer for the greater good…
The sensible people aren't drinking the rotgut affected by this measure.
It's a minimum price point and the decent stuff already costs more, so it's only the cheap fighting juice that will rise in price, not what sensible people drink.
But then it is Scotland and they proclaim to be different, so let’s sit back and watch this social experiment falter or barely make any difference.”
Pretty much word for word what people said about the smoking ban, and about carrier bag charging… The BMJ says “price-based alcohol policy interventions such as MUP are likely to reduce alcohol consumption, alcohol-related morbidity and mortality” which sounds like a good start
I dont remeber anyone say anything of the sort.
The smoking ban was widely accepted as both a way to remove passive smoking from internal environments and also deter smokers from chain smoking. So your statement is way off.
Also the bag charging was widely accepted as a way of reducing plastic waste and most people accepted that, then bought “bags for life” or reusable bags and hardly anyone moaned or complained, in fact it has been widely accepted as success.
So we’ve had 24hrs of the pricing, anyone see any difference yet? Or trucks full of booze heading over the borders..
Expect Westminster to follow with legislation for England – eventually; why, for once, can they not lead instead of always following?
I thought Cameron had already said they were going to do the same? Presumably Teressa has been too busy worrying about the EU to deal with the health of her citizens or wanted Scotland to bear the costs of the ECJ/Supreme Court cases first (perhaps it didn't play into her anti ECJ mantra for them to agree with a domestic policy)? The clever thing is they now let Scotland be a voluntary leader rather than imposing experiments like the Poll Tax on us!
The smoking ban was widely accepted
Not by smokers or publicans. I can remember the hype and hysteria in the run up to the ban kicking in. Every pub was going to close, all the smokers were going to defy the ban etc. TV news interviewing people in pubs. I can remember a lot of moaning from people that clubs now smelled of farts and sweat and that the smoke had previously masked those smells!
There was a lot of resistance to it up here in Scotland before it kicked in.
"The sensible people aren’t drinking the rotgut affected by this measure."
But it isn't just rotgut affected. For whisky Bells, Grouse, etc are up to £14 for a 70cl bottle. Not everyone can afford to drink single malts all the time. Drinkable supermarket grain/malt blends are up as well. Aldi own brand gin is pretty good. 1L bottle up from £14 to somewhere around £19.
Doesn't matter though as only the proles drink standard spirits?
Personally I more often than not buy premium beer and whisky and I wouldn't miss an extra few quid anyway. Not everyone is lucky enough not to have to budget very carefully for day to day spending.
But it isn’t just rotgut affected. For whisky Bells, Grouse, etc are up
🤔
Aldi own brand gin is pretty good. 1L bottle up from £14 to somewhere around £19.
£17.51 actually. If they raise the price to more than that then it's their profits they're protecting, not your health.
not what sensible people drink.
Man you lot don't half have yer heids up yer arse! 😆
Must be nice up in those ivory towers.
😂😂😂
1978. beer 30p / pint Auxilliary nurse £1 an hour so 20 mins to earn enough for my pint.
Now beer £4.50 a pint, Auxilliary nurse £8 an hour 35 mins to earn enough for a pint
That may be a reflection more on poor pay rises for aux nurses rather than alcohol being more expensive.
So what will happen if you get the train from Edinburgh to London, will the drink have 2 prices, pre and post border?
No, because trains don't sell the chemical cider so the drinks won't be effected by the new pricing.
That includes Edinburgh tax though TJ, 3 quid a pint in rest of country for cooking lager, so not far off 20 mins a beer.
the 30p pint was in milngavie. Dunno if it was a cheap or expensive pub for those days tho.
1989 about £1 a pint for generic shit average hourly rate was around £6 per hour so about 10 mins work
2018 about £3.50 a pint here for generic shit but can be more or less, average hourly rate is around £14 per hour so about 15 mins work.
Not a big difference for pub prices but it’s not about pub prices. I seen 24 can of Carling on offer the other day for £8 which is pretty mad. Might load up the car and head into the borders.
Not a big difference for pub prices but it’s not about pub prices. I seen 24 can of Carling on offer the other day for £8 which is pretty mad. Might load up the car and head into the borders.
Don't drink and drive, kids.
Tennents is the biggest selling beer in the country.
20 cans of Tennent’s 440 ml lager at 4% abv were £10 in supermarkets - new minimum price £17.60
That's pretty significant.
The guys at Tennents told me they were looking at moving to 330ml cans and smaller pack sizes as people have a sort of mental upper limit for how much they'll pay for a slab of beer
Cooncil lager! Mate of mine does their PSSR inspections at their brewery in Glasgow, reckons it's minging.
Back to the smoking ban..
Of all the people in my office (at the time, about 60 odd) none proclaimed Pubs would shut, nor thought anything other than “thank god, I hate the smell of smoke”
Clearly you must have lived in a completely different environment than me.
Clearly
comparing beer prices from 1978 you need to allow for change in duty since then too.
in 1978 it was 7.5p per pint.
in 2018 it is c.49p per pint (assuming 4.5% ABV)
That is a 4.8% pa average increase in duty, but over the same period inflation grew at 4.42% pa.
The difference over 40yrs amounts to a relative divergence of c. 16%, i.e. 16% of the change in price of a pint is down to duty change not price changes.
Tennents is the biggest selling beer in the country.
What a sad fact.
If that's their attitude, I hope this is only the start of things to come and the govt makes life as difficult for them as it has the tobacco companies!The guys at Tennents told me they were looking at moving to 330ml cans and smaller pack sizes as people have a sort of mental upper limit for how much they’ll pay for a slab of beer
Tennents is the biggest selling beer in the country.
What a sad fact.
Yeah, second that.
How come? Can’t be the lighter fuel they sell as beer can it? Perhaps the brand Tennants owns lots of other “branded” sugar liquids..
Bikebuoy, believe it or not, Bob is bang on about attitudes to the smoking ban, seems crazy now but at the time there was no end of wailing from pub goers, landlords and even bar staff , that it would kill pub trade, smokers were being get treated like lepers, drinkers would drink at home and smoke in front of their kids instead.... all sorts of shite talk.
Same as the moaning that still goes on from drinkers about the lower driving limit. Some folk need protecting from themselves.
Aye huge amount of fuss about the smoking ban with loads of dire predictions. It did damage the pub trade a bit but all the talk of protests and civil disobedience simply didn't happen - load of hot air
Lighter fuel? It's 4% and pretty piss like. And its popularity is down to the power of the owners, C&C group, over the pub trade. That and a general lack of taste shown by yer average lager drinker.
Well I must have been ignorant of all that then...
Didnt really damage the Pub industry though did it?
Odd, my mind must have blanked it all out. Probably because I’ve never smoked or knocked about with anyone who does/did.
4% ? That’s about average for a beer isn’t it? I drink real ales range of 3.8-4.2% and don’t “taste” strong..
So what have the Beer Industry said about the minimum pricing ?
And where does the uplift in charge go? Does the beer industry get the uplift then the Govt cream it back off them or is it just an industry based tax..
And where does the uplift in charge go? Does the beer industry get the uplift then the Govt cream it back off them or is it just an industry based tax..
Nothing has changed. The retailer sets the retail price. The wholesaler/manufacturer sets the wholesale price. There's some negotiation. In theory, one or the other (or both) will show some increased profit. The UK Govt will cream some of that off as part of normal taxation (VAT and Corporation tax).
Purely anecdotal Bikebuoy, but since the smoking ban, pubs where I live are very definitely busier. The only downside is that beer gardens/terraces are now pretty much the domain of the smoker. A small price to pay I suppose.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4845310.stm
Scroll to the bottom for the anti-smoking ban attitudes.
It seems to be a terribly thought out idea. This clearly affects the poorest in society who will now have to start stealing to fund their cider habit.
A more pressing issue though is surely for small grocery stores to exploit this more a crazy amount of profiteering.
For example, in a deprived housing scheme where let’s say 100 bottles of frosty jacks are sold daily. I’ve based this on 30 people drinking 3 or 4 per day. Used to cost £4 a bottle. Now costs around £12 per bottle. If the shop keeper sources this from an English wholesaler for let’s say £2 a bottle? Then sells it in Scotland for £12 a bottle then that’s £1000 a day profit. £350,000 profit on cider annually.
Someone else said vast majority of Scottish population live 2 hours away from border. I would say it’s more like an hour in a van each week. What measures are in place to prevent this?
I will bet you no significant black market starts and there will be extra profits for the booze makers and sellers but it also removes the market for this cheap nasty stuff and I am sure will modify behaviour.
There is no control on wholesale price just retail price - do you really think wholesalers will have two prices for south and north of the border? You do realise that many supermarkets actually sell some booze well below cost to get folk to come in the shop?
Remember this is based on good academic research and its simply not going to be worth folk trying to set up a black market.
tjagain, I’m willing to take that bet, what do I know anyway! So are you saying that as of now a shopkeeper in Scotland can buy a bottle of cider from Wholesaler in Scotland for around £2 and be forced to sell it for £12?
Bikebouy wrote,
"Also the bag charging was widely accepted as a way of reducing plastic waste and most people accepted that, then bought “bags for life” or reusable bags and hardly anyone moaned or complained, in fact it has been widely accepted as success."
I'll just leave these here
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/you-can-tell-they-are-clutching-at-sraws-when/
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/5-pence-per-carrier-bag-in-wales-from-today/page/2/
Leave it where you like, still think the charge is an acceptable way of reducing plastic bags in refuse or the ocean.
Should be £1