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mini budget thread
 

mini budget thread

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I can see why the high earners cut will help. Many high earners it currently isnt worth working as the money gets taken straight off you. Many of the high earners do drive employment and productivity.

Sorry,  but untrue -the folk who were in a financial position to be able to arbitrarily cut their working hours/pay, or even retire, because of a tax increase are very few in number, and I can't see them being tempted to return because of the offer of a few quid extra in their pay-packet at the end of the month, when they didn't seem to need that income in the first place.  Nor are they the types to drive employment and productivity (happy to be given examples)


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:25 pm
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It is a bloody stupid budget.
I can't see how reducing tax on higher earners will increase the tax take as most are clever enough to be able to sacrifice income into areas that are not taxed without becoming cash poor.
Overall this is just emphasising this government's screw the poor attitude


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:26 pm
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How is cutting corporation tax meant to promote corporate investment? Surely corporation tax is paid on profits after expenditure, which includes investment? This is how companies avoid paying it in the first place. It's a measure specifically designed to increase investment, so I don't see how cutting it will do that.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:28 pm
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so when money was essentially free and interest was low the Govt destroyed public services to "balance the books" and now the opposite is true, they're borrowing money to give tax breaks to rich people.

I think we're going to have a labour Govt in a couple of years time


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:29 pm
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ir35 changes cancelled

So what does that mean in reality ? The whole thing is scrapped? A lot of faff has been gone through by all concerned to become IR35 compliant, is that now all undone?


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:35 pm
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I suppose we should be grateful that they've dropped the ludicrous pretence that they give a toss about poor people/disabled people/the north and theres at least now a degree of honesty about purely representing the interests of the rich bankers and those on the highest rates of tax and everyone else can just **** off.

So at least we'll never hear the words 'Levelling Up' ever again.

It went well, didn't it?


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:35 pm
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How is cutting corporation tax meant to promote corporate investment? Surely corporation tax is paid on profits after expenditure, which includes investment?

Risk and reward - pay less tax then the return on that investment is higher (or you need a lower expected return to take the same risk). I always look at the post-tax, not pre-tax, benefits of investment decisions.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:35 pm
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Santa Cruz sales will the through the roof after this 😂


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:35 pm
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ok but the same data also suggests that even the lowest 1% still earn above the income tax threshold (12,500). I’m not sure how that can be true (surely there’s a whole bunch of students and part timers in the world??) but there ya go.

Fair point - the notes point out that it's actually the 23rd percentile of income tax payers. So there are a whole bunch of part-timers who are below the first percentile


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:36 pm
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I can see why the high earners cut will help. Many high earners it currently isnt worth working as the money gets taken straight off you. Many of the high earners do drive employment and productivity.

Both these points are bollocks.

Firstly, if you earn £200k then you get a new job for an extra £100k then you still keep £50k of it and you aren't working any more hours than you would on your previous job. So no-one's going to say no to an extra grand a week for the same hours.

Secondly, given that most of us have to work, then the sort of people on those wages will probably go for more responsibility and power anyway because it makes your job more interesting and fulfilling.

Thirdly, the higher earners are managers and strategists etc but they are an integral part of any production, just like the poor sods who have to do the work. If you ignore or dismiss the actual workers, as you are, then your managers won't have anything to manage. In the UK we do this a lot; the people who actually create stuff are not valued, so they get put upon but they somehow manage to keep going and then they get put upon even more etc.

Where I work, we don't have a shortage of managers and executives, but we do have a severe shortage of skilled workers which is causing problems with innovation and our ability to deliver. And we're not alone. We ALL know what our customers need and how we could improve - managers and leaders don't tell us this - but we just don't have the people to do it.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:37 pm
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he institute for economic affairs have been grooming Truss & Kwertang for years

This is exactly what I came here to post.

The IEA are basically running the country.

It is their far right dream.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:40 pm
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So what does that mean in reality ? The whole thing is scrapped? A lot of faff has been gone through by all concerned to become IR35 compliant, is that now all undone?

No real flesh on the policy, but I'm guessing it removes the onus on determination back to the contractor. Maybe HMRC has more confidence in its abilities to prosecute what it sees as 'abuses'.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:42 pm
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The IEA are basically running the country.

It is their far right dream.

Tim Montgomerie admitted as much on Twitter.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:42 pm
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The IEA are basically running the country.

Not strictly true. The Taxpayers Alliance also has some input

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1567219754045214721?s=20&t=rryW1bj5ho1wB1aYcZW0Dg


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:47 pm
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They are not even hiding it.

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1573238591496634370


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:48 pm
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Absolutely no point voting any more. Doesn't matter who is in power, the vast majority of folks will just have to keep getting by the best they can as no-one cares a jot. I'm really depressed about it all frankly, and nothing will ever change. Good luck Scotland. I hope you get your independence after all.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:51 pm
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Doesn’t matter who is in power

A decade of Tory PMs will make people feel that way, yes.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:54 pm
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which in some cases have see huge areas transformed from low wage / high unemployment to high wage / full unemployment.

Not sure if that's a typo


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:54 pm
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Lions led by donkeys is a phrase that comes to mind


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:56 pm
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Many of the high earners do drive employment and productivity.

James O'Brien on trickle-down economics


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 12:57 pm
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Not strictly true. The Taxpayers Alliance also has some input

Basically the same thing though just dressed up slightly differently for different jobs. Look at their joint ventures and anonymous donors.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:01 pm
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Interesting to see how this plays out with the public the fuel bill help is great but will be overshadowed by the tax cuts , especially for the high earners

That's not necessarily terrible for the Tories as there's are some modest tax cuts on there for the rest, but puiblic services are in a dire state, NHS in for a rough winter, police just record crimes ratothan solve them, councils still decimated by austerity

The housing market is going to heat up but with interest rates set to rise further that's a recipe for trouble?

Seems a mad gamble


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:04 pm
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Seems a mad gamble

It's an experiment by the IEA and TA. They don't care if poor get poorer.

If it completely ****s the country, the truly rich will not be affected. They will just shrug their shoulders and continue eating their foie gras.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:13 pm
 5lab
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The housing market is going to heat up

I don't think so - anedotally I hear its slowing down fast, and the cuts to stamp duty will just go some way to easing that slowdown


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:13 pm
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It is their far right dream.

I did think that most of what was said by them over the summer was so much mouth breathing for the Tory faithful...But no. At least they were being honest


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:18 pm
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I don’t think so – anedotally I hear its slowing down fast, and the cuts to stamp duty will just go some way to easing that slowdown

Mortgages may still be historically cheap, but rates have already risen enough to put off some people, and people are far more likely to stick rather than twist in times of economic uncertainty. If you're struggling to pay for heating, you're not going to find thousands for conveyancing, surveys and removals.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:22 pm
 5lab
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Mortgages may still be historically cheap, but rates have already risen enough to put off some people, and people are far more likely to stick rather than twist in times of economic uncertainty. If you’re struggling to pay for heating, you’re not going to find thousands for conveyancing, surveys and removals.

whilst historically cheap, I think interest rates will make a much bigger difference than fuel prices. most 90% ltv rates are hovering around 4% now and 75% are 3% - thats around double what they were a year ago, so a significant shock to the system. I've got a few mates buying, and they all said that if they didn't have a mortgage locked in, they'd have to pull out


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:27 pm
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£ about to drop past $1.10. I wonder if we’ll make it to parity…


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:31 pm
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Mortgages may still be historically cheap

Interest rates might still be historically cheap, but repayments are not, because homes are far more expensive than they have been "historically". Something felt more keenly by those who are new to home ownership (or dream of it).


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:32 pm
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Doesn’t matter who is in power

No mate, it really really does.

Governments do change, and things do change.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:32 pm
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£ about to drop past $1.10. I wonder if we’ll make it to parity

oh how the brexit bugle crowed when the Euro hit parity…


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:35 pm
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As someone who would benefit (40% tax payer). This budget stinks for minimum wage earners and does not improve the financial health of anyone but the wealthy, bankers and big business.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:35 pm
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a budget for spivs by spivs


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:40 pm
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Doesn’t matter who is in power

Seriously, don't fall for this. Its a classic Tory line, pushed by right wing media. They are very happy with the status quo and don't want that boat rocked. Things can be much better if we get rid of this current lot.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:41 pm
 dazh
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Think we can safely assume the tories are expecting to lose the next election. This is a last gasp of the rich elite to grab what they can before their tax dodging, corrupt money grubbing scam grinds to a halt. It's going to need more from the labour party to make that happen though. Never has a labour opposition had such a gaping open goal in front of them.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:41 pm
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Typical Tory bollocks!
1) just after the B of E raise interest rates to curb spending they then do the opposite.
2) Every change they have announced will benefit the rich more than the poor.
3) Giving us money that doesn’t bleeding exist!
Plus just to add I cannot believe that post earlier moaning about taxation on the wealthy. Unbefreekinglievable.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:41 pm
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Think we can safely assume the tories are expecting to lose the next election.

Woah there! We can't assume that "safely" at all. Once an election is announced, the rolling of the turd in the glitter will begin. Look out for the "they are all the same", "it's not worth voting", and "it would be worse under Labour", and "in the pockets of the SNP" lines ramp up as soon as the date is known.. if not before.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:46 pm
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Interest rates might still be historically cheap, but repayments are not, because homes are far more expensive than they have been “historically”. Something felt more keenly by those who are new to home ownership (or dream of it).

Completely agree with this - recent homebuyers with massive loan to value ratios are going to end up with much higher rates when remortgage time comes around. That will blow any tiny adjustments to income taxes out of the water.

High rates might have been okay when a house was a few times one salary, but now they're far more a tiny increase makes a much larger difference.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:48 pm
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Not a surprise, but interesting to see how Scotland plays this one.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1573264001576087558?t=Sxz2wsJT0zeUbmH54k_qGQ&s=19


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:48 pm
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Never has a labour opposition had such a gaping open goal in front of them.

Agreed but they actually need to start coming out with robust policy themselves, something so far they appear incapable of doing. As it stands they dont even appear to understand that the goal is there or know a way how to score

Maybe labour policy is just to bank on people getting fed up with the tories, and then voting labour in, realising how shit they are and then the tories coming back in again ?


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:48 pm
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Think we can safely assume the tories are expecting to lose the next election. This is a last gasp of the rich elite to grab what they can before their tax dodging, corrupt money grubbing scam grinds to a halt.

The way they're acting, they're not expecting to make it past January. It's the macroeconomic equivalent of a looting spree.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:48 pm
 5lab
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Seriously, don’t fall for this. Its a classic Tory line, pushed by right wing media. They are very happy with the status quo and don’t want that boat rocked. Things can be much better if we get rid of this current lot.

so one of the things mentioned was that the 40% rate was the highest rate under the last labour government as well, except for the last month (I guess it was hiked during the 2007 crisis).

Is there a reason why additional rate tax wasn't in place earlier on? it seems right now like everyone thinks cutting it is unfair (not disagreeing) but if thats the case, why wasn't it introduced in the late 90s? I was too young to be following politics then so have no idea


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 1:58 pm
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whoever said that Brexit was an "unimaginable act of financial self harm" I don't think they meant it as setting a target.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 2:01 pm
 dazh
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Agreed but they actually need to start coming out with robust policy themselves,

Yup. So far all they've come up with is a fairly insignificant windfall tax and rhetoric about balancing the books/fiscal responsibility. Time for Starmer and Reeves to make the unashamed case for redistribution and massive investment in public services. If the tories can afford to borrow hundreds of billions to prop up energy companies and bank profits, we can do that for schools, hospitals, infrastructure, house building and local services. I'm not holding my breath.


 
Posted : 23/09/2022 2:02 pm
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