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I'm thinking about getting a mid sized van, something like a Peugeot Expert, Vauxhall Vivaro, etc. Would like to know experience of others to see if these are reliable, are they rust buckets?
Is it possible to fit a motorcycle into the back of these? (Even better if I can squeeze 2 in there).
Budget around 11k
Would really like cruise control if possible
Are there others I should consider that may be better?
Cheers!
First thing to do is sit in a few.
The current model stellantis vans have a pretty cramped cabin and quite an odd low windscreen - as taller driver if I put the sun visor down I can't see the road - you can't see traffic lights if you're at the front of the queue.
Viivaros are a bit of a wild card - when vauxhall was gobbled up by stellantis they kept all the model names of their vans the same when they switched to new platforms so now they're Peugeot based vans but previously they were Renault based ones. The Renault equivalents have better cabins if that matters. So if you're looking at recccmmendations and reviews its hard to know which van people are actually talking about, your budget puts you in the timeframe when that switch was made.
Theres actually very little choice in that part of the market - almost all of the manufactures are really just selling badged versions of just two vans (the Expert and the Traffic)
Other than that its transit, transporter, Vito.
Often overlooked is the Hyundai iLoad
Transit for me, i've done 57,000 in just over 2 years in ours. Air-con, heated seats, heated screen, cruise, DAB,... It's awesome and yes it'll fit 2 motorbiikes (just)
It’s a shame the Toyota Hiace wasn’t developed/Rustproofed.
Our work Transits seem bulletproof and do big miles. Very van like if that makes sense.
Cant comment on the new shape VW Transit.
Cant comment on the new shape VW Transit.
I have driven two of them - both minibus/people carrier versions. Comfy, economic, seemed well put together. Awful technology - lane assist, cruise, falling asleep sensor etc all awful in implementation. Maybe it was our trim, but coal mine black inside. Good headlights.
Many thanks!
I was thinking of Peugeot as they always had pretty decent engines. Transits I was avoiding as any I've seen in the past were rust buckets however if that has changed and improved I'll take a look at those too.
Renault also a good shout!
Cabin comfort would be nice as it will be covering some long distances, but at the end of the day it's a van and I'm under no illusions...
Main thing is rust - I've restored cars in the past and I just cannot be bothered dealing with crappy metal again, so something that will last a good few years without rotting away is a main driver.
And reliability! I'm not a fan of diesels but there is no choice here. So something that will give as little trouble as possible... or the least likely to give trouble...
Are there any that should be absolutely avoided?
Cheers!
I was thinking of Peugeot as they always had pretty decent engines
Pug/Citroen/Toyota/Vauxhall all the same van now.
Dunno if the engine originates from one of the brands in particular (would guess Citroen?)
My 21 plate tourneo (passenger version of transit) is extremely comfy to travel long distances in. Driver aids are all good, work well and are not intrusive. I tried the new version as well, and found the driver aids to be shit and the sat nav to keep resetting to think i'm in Dover (which is apparently a known fault!).
Muchas gracias!
When it comes to these is it best bet to buy private, or from a dealer?
The answer is.... it's 50-50 in truth. I bought mine from Anchor Vans in Reading and it's been faultless, but i've seen horror stories and great stories both private and dealer. I'm lucky that my mate runs the company so he'd see me right, but happily i've not needed much at all in the 2 years.
Just bought a Vivaro Life 'Elite' - 71 plate (version with seats), but it was not cheap. Very car like to drive, 2.0 diesel from Peugeot married to a Japanese auto box and 180 horses. Really enjoying driving it.
I think all the van's are quite well equipped through the range and are galvanised. You should be able to pick up the 68 plate onwards Expert/Dispatch van for your budget. The Vivaro didn't take on the later 'shape' until 70 plate
is it best bet to buy private, or from a dealer?
I'm looking at exactly the same price bracket as you.
Usually I like to buy privately, but at that kind of money it's a big gamble. I'm erring towards trade, but being selective about which outfits I'll consider buying from.
aha! I did not realise the Vauxhall's are galvanised, have they been doing that for a while?
@cha****ng - there seems to be a reasonable amount to choose from, I'm trying to figure out which one will have the best chance at being reliable hah!
Cabin comfort would be nice as it will be covering some long distances, but at the end of the day it’s a van and I’m under no illusions…
I find vans more comfortable than cars for really long days e.g. Glasgow to Morzine. It seems to be down to the driving position and the space in the cab that lets you adjust position more than a car.
If you care about your passenger, get one with two seats up front rather than a bench. Obviously doesn't work if you need three seats
In a recommend what you own, Transporter. Mines a 61 plate, owned for over 10 years and 70k miles. Never needed much outside routine maintenance - a clutch and DMF a couple of years back and a EGR around the same time.
I've had a 2019 Peugeot Expert for a couple of years now. First off stay away from the 1.6 as it's less reliable than the 2.0, and doesn't have the torque. The 2.0 does the same fuel economy if driven sensibly. It's been reliable and one the whole a good little van. The 1.6 suffers from an adblue fault and many many owners have the ad blue mapped out as the bill to fix the physical issue (new address blue tank) is in the thousands.
Pug/Citroen/Toyota/Vauxhall all the same van now.
Dunno if the engine originates from one of the brands in particular (would guess Citroen?)
The chassis and engines are the same across them all - the Toyota has the 'best' aka longest warranty.
As for fitting two motorbikes, it'll be a squeeze but Id have thought you'll be fine - it would definitely require wheels up against the bulkhead. I can fit four complete bikes and have a fair bit of room still for kit.
aha! I did not realise the Vauxhall’s are galvanised, have they been doing that for a while?
the problem with this question is you’re asking about two different vans. Vauxhall haven’t actually made a van for a long time
So it’s either yes and no or yes and yes depending on whether Renault were galvanising their vans
I’ve had a 2019 Peugeot Expert for a couple of years now. First off stay away from the 1.6 as it’s less reliable than the 2.0, and doesn’t have the torque. The 2.0 does the same fuel economy if driven sensibly. It’s been reliable and one the whole a good little van. The 1.6 suffers from an adblue fault and many many owners have the ad blue mapped out as the bill to fix the physical issue (new address blue tank) is in the thousands.
I had heard the 2.0 was the one to go for.
Newer ones all seem to be 1.5 though - anyone know what kind of rep they have?
Funnily enough I was just wondering the very same thing Chakaping
Funnily enough I was just wondering the very same thing Chakaping
We have probably been looking at the same vans on AT 😀
Haha! Quite possibly!
I've found one local to me I'm going to have a look at, possibly tomorrow, up here near Edinburgh
I've had a 21 plate 1.5 vivaro for 18 months, no issues in 20k and will do 50mpg on a long run with a light foot. I've been really happy with it for a van.
2020 Vivaro MWB 1.5 120bhp owner. Doesn’t feel unpowered. The Vivaro only comes in 2 lengths with the L1 being the same as the MWB in Dispatch/Expert. 44mpg mostly motorway miles. I’m 5ft 10, cabin felt cramped initially but soon got used to it. Sportive spec so comes with cruise control. Mechanics I know say generally decent van, main issue is adblue/emissions. And most of them have issues with the lower barn door hinges, corrosion etc which is an easy fix
Usually STW fashion recomend what you own
2011 VW T5.1 140bhp genuine Kombi , had mine almost two years, only had to have the clutch master cylinder replaced in that time, looking back through the history (previous owner kept all the receipts from new, even for tyres and things like bulbs!) its not needed much over the 165'000 miles its done
No receipt for a clutch so assume its still on the original, which i may have to do at some point in the future
Could get two motorbikes in the back if needed
Obviously they cost more than a Transit but they hold their money well, workmate bought a 07 plate caravelle with 260k on the clock for 4k, apart from some minor body issues and the interior needing a tidy up it drives nice and hasnt needed much in the last year
I did look at Transits but anything after 2018 means you have a wet belt to deal with which means around another 1k to pay out to have it replaced for peace of mind and then it needs replacing every 6 years and you need to make sure the servicing is carried out regularly with the correct grade of oil to stop the wet belt degrading and making the engine go KABOOM!!
I've just gone down this road and you get surprisingly little for your money. Like others said there just aren't that many different models out there. I had the same budget as you.
I discounted VW as the prices are just silly - I didn't want a vehicle with 150k on the clock. The Transit I discounted after hearing about various wet belt issues.
I had discounted the stellantis vans due to their strange driving position...but tbh after sitting in one and seeing what I could get for £11k I was convinced to go down this road. It's also slightly shorter than other vans, which is good for car parks which was a big plus for me. Got a very clean Toyota Preach 2019 van with 55k on the clock from Oxford van centre - and went for the 2.0 diesel after hearing about the same horror stories as the previous poster. To be honest even with the 2.0 litre engine there seem to be lots of horror stories about reliability, which is making me think hard about investing lots in doing the van nicely in terms of having it as a day camper.
Reliability of vans across the board and brands seems totally awful. There really seem to be few good options unless you spend £25k on one of the higher end Vitos.
As a further note the stellantis vans you can't swivel the seats... which may be a consideration for you and would have been for me had I had known!
The Vitos for 10-11k are all crap - no air con, no cruise control and a dashboard from 1982. Coupled with the shittest engines and high mileage.
Lots of transits have the wet belt set up, very very sensitive to on time oil changes and belt replacements.
If not, belts deteriorate, debris blocks oil pick up and engine damage occurs.
I'd look at a tidy late Hiace personally, 10x more reliable than anything else mentioned but very agricultural.
Not sure if the new JDM only shape may be better? With the flat front.
Our SWB T5.1 was a shade over £11k and it'll get a motorbike in the back diagonal. That's with 3 seats in the back too. 201k miles but pretty much everything except the block had been replaced before we got it, plus coilovers and polybushes. It drives like a well sorted car (albeit a slow one) and there isn't a creak to be heard anywhere.
Can't believe I got to 44yo before getting a van - it's ace.
As mentioned, if you can avoid 3 seats up front, a proper passenger seat is a joy. We have a t5 , it's not great on the passenger bench on long journeys
Ours is getting on now but I'm surprised at the general amount of rust, particularly in places you wouldn't really expect. I just noticed quite a lot on the underside of the bonnet, so am concerned about areas I can't see.
Generally it's nice to drive, it's not running premium tyres so that would reduce road noise a bit
Reliability has been mediocre. It's had all the typical transporter woes in 180k of driving but keeps trucking on.
I discounted VW as the prices are just silly – I didn’t want a vehicle with 150k on the clock.
… £25k, and 10 years old (Euro 5) so you can’t even take it into any ULEZ areas
but basically this in general:
I’ve just gone down this road and you get surprisingly little for your money.
It does seem weird that Toyota doesn’t sell the Hiace here considering they make zillions of them in RHD and they’re legendarily reliable
I imagine safety. I used to have one for work, as did another guy from a different company I worked with occasionally. Awesome van.
He had a fairly average knock in it (apparently) and both doors opened due to the way the cab roof folded.
Passenger leg room was poor too.
Thanks for the replies,
Nissan NV400 would be cool but it's too big.
Mercedes - no thanks, had a MB and was amazed at just how shite it was. Marketing hype is what MB is good at...
Citroen Dispatch might be a shout too... looks like it's going to be one of these - all the same really but a slightly different body/interior.
A Toyota HiAce would have been idea but as mentioned they're pretty old now
I imagine safety. I used to have one for work...
I don't know anything about vehicle safety standards but they sell tons of Hiaces in Australia and Japan every year, which are hardly the wild west, so they can't be that unsafe...can they?
The last Hiaces sold in the UK don't even seem to have been the latest version sold elsewhere at the time.
I have driven the vivaro and a dispatch (both 22 plates). I was concerned about the offset steering wheel but did not notice when it came down to it.
I quite like the 1.5 blue hdi to drive but it has suspect reliability (google 1.5 blue hdi 7mm chain and you will see what I mean). I am actually picking my van up (with the same engine) following a repair tomorrow.
If budget permits mid to late 2023 models have the upgraded 8mm cam chain fitted. For refrence changing to the 8mm chain involves changing the cam cover, cams/sprockets and a few other bits so not a cheap job. Citroen quoted me £3.5k plus VAT for this work, however in the end it was covered under warranty.
There are other well documented issues with the ad blue system.
None of the above is enough to tempt me over to the wet belt options though for the reasons described above.
I was in the same mindset as you, VW options/prices/mileage weren't enough to tempt me.
A well maintained 15yr old Hiace will be a reliable motor.
They don't suddenly self combust at a certain age! 😁
The 2.0 on the Pug/Citroen/Toyota/VX are a traditional cam belt, hence my reason for getting that engine. Ad blue is an issue on most modern diesels these days. I paid for an extra two year warranty, on the three year old van I just bought. I've not noticed the off-set driving position at all and the cabin is far from cramped in the people carrier version. I'm seriously impressed with how car like it is, the equipment levels, and the power in the 180 bhp version.
They don't suddenly self combust at a certain age! 😁
No, but the do rust.
Oh I forgot to say, completely forget about regular or long journeys with three people up front in the Peugeot/Citroen etc. yes you can squeeze two people up there but it's a proper uncomfortable squeeze.
The slight offset driving position doesn't bother me at all - but I've been driving french car for the majority of my driving life.
Oh I forgot to say, completely forget about regular or long journeys with three people up front in the Peugeot/Citroen etc. yes you can squeeze two people up there but it's a proper uncomfortable squeeze.
The slight offset driving position doesn't bother me at all - but I've been driving french car for the majority of my driving life.
That's why we bought the Transit Custom, we sat in just about every mid sized van, the Transit with the only one (in budget) with DAB, heated seats, cruise and most importantly the one with the most legroom for 3 people. We've been to Scotland multiple times, Morzine and we'll be doing Fort William at least 3 times, Finale, Morzine and others this year.
With regards to the Stellantis vans there appears to be a 1.6 and a 1.5 engine
Are these both unreliable?
With regards to the Stellantis vans there appears to be a 1.6 and a 1.5 engine
Are these both unreliable?
The 1.6 has been around for years and used in loads of other brands - early ones had oil pickup/turbo issues, these were resolved but the Eolys fluid / reservoir bags / system is troublesome / expensive to repair on later models. People delete them rather than repair.
The 1.5 is the replacement in newer Berlingo's etc and has a chain instead of timing belt. It started with 7mm width but these failed prematurely and have been later increased to 8mm width.
That's what I've gleaned from reading the Berlingo forum (I have an old 2.0HDI version)
Had loads of Transporters (T25, T4s and T5) and now on a '17 Renault Trafic.
Trafic better in every way than the transporters I had...can't voucher for the T6 but the 1.9 & 2.5 engines are tough on the older Transporters, less so on the 2.0.
Trafic is Zinc treated, not Galvanised, and are very rust resistant (look how many old ones there are).
Weak point on the Renault is the PF6 gearbox; mine went at 60k, but now have a properly built recon unit, which will last the life of the van. That's 2k job.
1.6dCi benefits from frequent oil changes, so I do mine every 6 months which is a doddle. I believe the 2.0dCi likes similar treatment.
Latest Fords have wet belts, which rule them out for me.
Just my twopenneth...
I have had a Peugeot Expert for 5 years now. It's been great. Fits 3 XL mountain bikes in no problem. I've slept in it , not the most comfortable night. It's the 2l version and can be nippy when you need to get a move on . Fuel economy is ok and there's been no major mechanical issues. It was 5 years old when I bought and had done under 28000 miles. Cost me £11000 . I helped my sister flit with it only downside is the cabin is basic and it's a mesh bulkhead rather than a solid one so it's a bit noisy and takes ages to heat up in the winter. I. bought a couple of rolls of insulation and tied them to the bulkhead with cable ties so now the cabin heats up quicker and the noise is a bit less
I have had a Peugeot Expert for 5 years now. It's been great. Fits 3 XL mountain bikes in no problem. I've slept in it , not the most comfortable night. It's the 2l version and can be nippy when you need to get a move on . Fuel economy is ok and there's been no major mechanical issues. It was 5 years old when I bought and had done under 28000 miles. Cost me £11000 . I helped my sister flit with it only downside is the cabin is basic and it's a mesh bulkhead rather than a solid one so it's a bit noisy and takes ages to heat up in the winter. I. bought a couple of rolls of insulation and tied them to the bulkhead with cable ties so now the cabin heats up quicker and the noise is a bit less
I have had a Peugeot Expert for 5 years now. It's been great. Fits 3 XL mountain bikes in no problem. I've slept in it , not the most comfortable night. It's the 2l version and can be nippy when you need to get a move on . Fuel economy is ok and there's been no major mechanical issues. It was 5 years old when I bought and had done under 28000 miles. Cost me £11000 . I helped my sister flit with it only downside is the cabin is basic and it's a mesh bulkhead rather than a solid one so it's a bit noisy and takes ages to heat up in the winter. I. bought a couple of rolls of insulation and tied them to the bulkhead with cable ties so now the cabin heats up quicker and the noise is a bit less
Thanks again for the info.
SOme of the older 1.6 seem like decent value for money, and it seems like they are a reasonable engine.
How do you find the rear height? This is really my only remaining concern. I'd love one that I could stand up in but anything I find with a tall roof is too long. I'm hoping it's not too much of a pain in every day use...
Cheers!
I'm 6ft 4 and there's no chance of standing up in mine I am either on my knees or bent double. I am very rarely in the back for long though, I now have a rooftop tent for any camping trips
I'm 6ft 4 and there's no chance of standing up in mine I am either on my knees or bent double. I am very rarely in the back for long though, I now have a rooftop tent for any camping trips
The only way you’re standing is if you get a pop top… which admittedly isn’t the worst idea
Re: Toyota Hiace, eBay seems to have a few
Definately check out the driving position. I'm currently driving a Pug expert at work after killing two vans on monday and can't get a good driving position. I'm 6'1" and can't get the seat far enough back to get my legs comfortable and feet comfortable on the pedals.
How tall is OP - no such issue in a VX/Pug for me being 5-9
Your not standing up in any mid-size van without a high top roof or pop up roof.
However, if like me you've had a lifetime of standing in a blue ikea bag next to an estate car to get changed, its still absolutely dreamy getting ready in the back of a van!
Haha! very true!
I'm 6ft tall, and I don't expect to be able to stand up in the back of the van but I am wondering how easy is it to move bikes in and out the back of it? What about heavier items, say a motorcycle?
I think what I may do is hire one for a weekend and see how it goes...
Cheers!
Well, getting bikes in and out of a mid-sized van is a delight compared to a car. They go in whole and you just strap them down.
Never tried with a motorbike though.
Haha! very true!
I'm 6ft tall, and I don't expect to be able to stand up in the back of the van but I am wondering how easy is it to move bikes in and out the back of it? What about heavier items, say a motorcycle?
I think what I may do is hire one for a weekend and see how it goes...
Cheers!
Motorbikes come with time, practice and experience. I was always the person at tracks who unloaded and loaded all the inexperienced people's bikes, it's effortless once you've done it a gazillion times.
Motorbikes come with time, practice and experience. I was always the person at tracks who unloaded and loaded all the inexperienced people's bikes, it's effortless once you've done it a gazillion times.
Thanks Weeksy, it's along the lines of what I was thinking.
I'm going to hire one for a weekend and see how it goes, then I can see if I can make it work
Cheers!