[Closed] Met Police in 'looking after their own yet again' shocker...

another problem is - i am totally not shocked by this behaviour at all

WTF are the old bill doing running around with baseball bats and pick axe handles?!!?

i'd also like to see the video and have a little more information on the circumstances that led up to their behaviour. it sounds more like the bahaviour of a group of drunken dickheads after a night out on the piss....

I read that earlier and thought WTF how aren't they in court for criminal damage or possession off an offensive weapon! But then we are making assumptions again off shoddy journalism so who knows waht actually happened.

Unless I've missed something, the only damage they did was to smash the rear offside window of a stolen car - hardly a sackable offence imo. And they were punished.

Have I missed something ? 😕

But then we are making assumptions again off shoddy journalism

Er, no we're not; this is actually what happened! Simple reporting of facts. There's no 'shoddy journalism' that I can see.

[b]A Scotland Yard spokesman[/b] said: "The five other officers were found to have used more force than was reasonable or necessary to affect the stop by using a non issue baseball bat, hitting the rear offside window causing it to smash."

Bit concerned as to why you, as a member of the police force, consider this 'shoddy journalism'.

Have I missed something ?

Yes, yes you have, Ernie. Yes you have.

Once again people are making there own assumptions on something they onlyknow half the story of. It's easy for narrow-minded people to sit back and assume why things were done by police. No one ever praises the police for what they actually do.

Okay I didn't make myself clear, when I say "shoddy journalism" I mean we never get the full facts of what has happened or what has "really" happened and I don't trust a lot of stuff I read in the newspapers.

If it was a stolen car and they were smashing the window to stop the vehicle fine, however WTF were they doing with baseball bats? God only knows but they obviously felt it was appropriate at the time 😕

It's easy for narrow-minded people to sit back and assume why things were done by police. No one ever praises the police for what they actually do.

I can agree in general, but that's not licence to do what they hell they like. They should have been sacked- it's hard to see where there's room for benefit of the doubt in this caase.

Was it a stolen car though? Thumbs up to them if it was and one finger up to hippy big brother/slippery slope drivel.

It's the BBC, not the Daily Record.

Yes, yes you have, Ernie. Yes you have.

Well if you are really that mortified at the thought of coppers smashing the rear offside window of a stolen car, then I suspect that you have had a very sheltered life and have never witnessed more serious police "unpleasantries"........do you live somewhere posh ?

Obviously using baseball bats rather than perfectly adequate police-issued weapons, is unacceptable, so they quite correctly got a bollocking, and one demotion, for it. Can't see why it requires more than that.

These are the old police regs as well, they have since changed and demotion is no longer an option. I do agree Hels, however there must be sooooo much more to it than that tiny report. Who knows? Nope we never will.

WTF are the old bill doing running around with baseball bats and pick axe handles?!!?

+1

I'm generally a fan of the police, for the most part they do a difficult job well but running round tooled up smashing cars seems a bit much

You've got to wonder how they managed to all end up with baseball bats. Did they commandeer them from a passing girl's softball team.

And while we're talking about baseball bats, I feel I must object to the encroachment of ghastly Americanisation in our British culture. Surely members of our police force should only use rounders bats?

I remember seeing this video a year or so ago and thought.. WOW.. Thats abit much however it was a number of plain clothes officers carrying out a hard stop on a stolen motor vehicle with 4 passengers, all known to the police as weapons carries and warning signals for firearms etc. They had been following the car and were stopped in heavy traffic.

Clearly there wasnt enough to charge any officer for any type of violent crime given the circumstances however I think its fair to say that maybe a better style of hard stop should have been utilised and hence why 6 officers were disciplined for it.

I dont see any cover up or "looking after their own" as the OP has suggested.

cricket bats surely, for the smack of flesh on willow.

so if they had done this with police issues batons it would have been ok?
That is not a troll can one of the coppers/legal bods answer.
Not the worst thing that will happen in public office this year and I more concerned with out highest politicians funding werrity tbh than some coppers trying to arrest some bad people in a sweeny stylee.

Thing is Fraz this is where journalistic reporting isnt' clear, hence my earlier comments. If it was a hard stop then yes (okay potentially not Bbats..although again there is nothing to say where they came from, why??) but papers don't say that, so we all jump to conclusions, me included (and I want to be on the side of the police!). That journalism and presumptions.

I should say that the info im basing it on is the hype at the time when the original video appeared. Not knowing what the were actually disciplined for I couldnt say whether utilising normal batons would have made a difference.
Ive gotta be honest, If I thought someone had a gun there not enough baseball bats in the world for me to try to stop them in a busy street with built up traffic.

JY; I would imagine the police have something special just for putting in car windows.I have seen a policeman trying to break a window with a baton/nightstick to remove a drunk from his car,it took AGES...However; Baseball bats? 😯

Elfin; I may be jumping to conclusions here but....you don't like the police,do you?

Perhaps this was an old style hard stop and they'd hadn't any recent training on hard vehicle stops, perhaps they were a bit hyped up dunno not defending them but a different opinion;

why smash a rear window in - distract and disorientate driver and therefore allow access to the keys and driver to stop vehicle injuring arresting officers, members of the public

why a baseball bat, because its ;
longer than an asp so allows you to break a car window easily,without you being too close to flying glass when you've no protectice eyeware, they're cheap and easy to get hold of and i'm not sure of a standard bit of kit like it save for a moutned officers batton

Better style of hard stop - arv's if you cn get hold of them, ramming, not I believe an MPS tactic, boxing a car in , you've still got to get hold of the keys to stop the subject vehicle

I've ben taught not to smash car windows in beacuse of flying glass, obscured visibility into the car a lack of neccesity to do so etc etc, but if I had a reasonably held belief some tool is going to run me over I'd consider it cars are lethal things in the wrong hands especialy at an arrest phase. I am not a met officer nor indeed a police constable but I've done some fairly swift vehicle extractions in the past . Also as an aside some people just like smashing windows, never understood it, went into a house once through the back door, everyone under control and coopoerating ,some tool put in the front glass door in all walks of life there are unfotuntely dicks - go figure?

policeman trying to break a window with a baton/nightstick to remove a drunk from his car,it took AGES

Lol.. Hes doing it wrong

I'm generally a fan of the police, for the most part they do a difficult job well but running round tooled up smashing cars seems a bit much

proven to be ott in this case but stopping cars for arrests, especialy if the opposition know thats why they're being stopped can be very dangerous

Clearly this isn't a case of the Police looking after their own. The IPCC are independant as the "I" for independant in their name suggests so if anything its an investigation coming to a reasoned conclusion based on the facts. I'm guessing therefore that the outcome is probably about right in relation the evidence as to what occurred, but hey its STW.

however it was a number of plain clothes officers carrying out a hard stop on a stolen motor vehicle with 4 passengers, all known to the police as weapons carries and warning signals for firearms etc.

Do you have any actual evidence of this? And surely, if there were indeed 'warning signals for firearms', then an armed response unit wooduv bin dealing with it?

All I can find out is that one bloke was arrested for handling stolen goods.

Clearly this isn't a case of the Police looking after their own

Clearly it is, as none of the officers have been sacked. In spite of being found guilty of using unreasonable force and unauthorised weapons. 😐

but papers don't say that, so we all jump to conclusions, me included

You can't blame the article. The article clearly states that they were found guilty of "discreditable conduct". I have no idea were Elfie got his "illegal violence" from.

I read the article fully expecting to find references to some nasty and unnecessary injuries, I found nothing.

And surely, if there were indeed 'warning signals for firearms', then an armed response unit wooduv bin dealing with it?

not neccesarily it may be he had hsitoric acces to firearms and therefore is a serious ne'er do well rather than a regular carrier, could possibly also be cs wich ic a sect5 firearm, could be olld intel which was not deemed suficient to deploy firearms on all sorts of reasons

Elfin - as I stated, those details are what was reported previously regarding it.

In spite of being found guilty of using unreasonable force and unauthorised weapons.

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Nah Duckman, Elfin doesn't like the police!!! 😉 Ernie, I'm pointing out in a limited article they have potentially missed out potentially important information which would change a LOT of people's views on the why's and wherefores of what happened, NOT on the outcome of the IPCC investigation. I clearly accept the officers were in the wrong, just pointing out that journalism isn't as straight up and down as some people like to think.

Ernie, why were you expecting injuries? Doesn't mean police can't be done for excessive and unacceptable force.

it may be... could possibly also be... could be....

What if, what if, what if.... 😉

Elfin; I may be jumping to conclusions here but....you don't like the police,do you?

I resent such a slanderous accusation! 😡

I am a great fan of the police and think they do a marvellous job in often exceptional circumstances. 😀

were they police issue baseball bats and pick axe handles?

how did they go about requistioning them?

Link to video?
From the description, it seems fine to me. They didn't hurt anyone did they?

But rarely hey Elfin???? 😉

They don't look like frigging baseball bats! And the chick at the rear offside looks like she is carrying a bazooka!! I'm just wondering if the traffic has been stopped specifically for that, as it doesn't look like that Mini is going anywhere!!!

Ernie, why were you expecting injuries?

Because Elfie mentioned "illegal violence", not "discreditable conduct".

Actually that pic suggests that the BBC article far from hyping it up, played it down a bit - it appears to be more than just a rear offside window.

Wow that Sun article has more information than the BBC one!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3910254/Cops-keep-jobs-after-hard-stop.html

The six officers, including one female officer, are seen driving an unmarked car and are [b]seen in a traffic jam on Meridian Way, in Edmonton[/b]. One of the officers shouts, "attack, attack", before all six leap out of the car, carrying a baseball bat and a pick axes handle, and proceed to smash the passenger side window, the windscreen and the passenger door of the Mini being driven by Billinghurst.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/02/enfield-crime-squad-officers-keep-jobs

Clearly it is, as none of the officers have been sacked. In spite of being found guilty of using unreasonable force and unauthorised weapons

Oh I see, the publication of the outcome of an independant investigation is indicative of illicit Police behaviour...blimey! God knows what the outcome of the Ian Tomlimson case is covering up then!!

...there was me thinking it was the exact opposite, thanks for putting me right.

The Guardian article suggests to me that there may be some connection with Meridian Way.

Interesting though that the police followed procedure in videoing the incident - not what you'd expect if they thought they'd get called up on it...

Ernie..yup agree with you there! imagine being the driver, scare the living day lights out of you!

No offence to Enfield Crime squad but it's not exactly the upper echelons of law enforcement so psoiibly never actaualy been trained how to do this manouvre properly, the car dosen't even appear to be well blocked in

If the police had guns this sort of thing wouldn't happen.

having read the other articles and seen the pictures (but not the video.. link?) i'm on the old bills side.

i feel, although my original comment still stands, that the police were acting reasonably.