MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Just noticed this on the BBC website this morning, and was a bit surprised that anyone would think this was a good idea, and not spectacularly tasteless.
All proceeds from the book will go to the fund to look for Madeleine, which has been at risk of running outPublishing this book has been a very difficult decision and is one that we have taken after much deliberation and with a very heavy heart.
"However, in the last few months, with the depletion of Madeleine's Fund, it is a decision that has virtually been taken out of our hands.
"Every penny we raise through its sales will be spent on our search for Madeleine. Nothing is more important to us than finding our little girl."
What would you do as a parent give up or sell up?
I know which I would do
I don't see why its tastless? As junkyard says what choice to they have.
[i]Dad[/i] "Oh dear we've run out of cash to hunt for our missing baby. "
[i]Mum[/i] "Well darling we could write a book about our tale of woe and hopefully cash in on the feelings of the nation"
[i]Dad[/i] "No I don't think thats a good idea, I would rather that she carried on suffering at the hands of her captors than appear tasteless to a few snobby ****ts on STW"
Seems a strange thing to want to read a book about, but can't blame the McCanns for writing/publishing it.
As above, if they've got no more cash then what else to do ?
They might as well cash in on the Diana Syndrome if some good might come of it.
theres a whole section (the same size as crime) in wh smiths entitled
TRAGIC LIFE STORIES
a certain type of person loves that stuff. very unsettling.
All depends on your view of the McCanns really. If you believe they were totally innocent in what happened then it's a very logical and reasonbale step. If you believe they were responsible then obviously it isn't. Trouble is the truth is probably somewhere in the murky area between the two, they did after all leave a young child alone whilst they went out which given the publicity they've generated (which is fine context of promoting the search) sticks a little in most peoples throats.
What would you do as a parent give up or sell up?
Sell up but maybe do it with a little more humility. Mind you if they had been more likeable people then the whole thing would have been forgotten ages ago, could be argued that the way they have portrayed themselves is justified in so much as it's kept the story / search alive this long.
In the circumstances of the fund running out of money I can follow their actions, notice the website talks about rights to a book being bought by a publishing house, so the actual book might not appear for many years, if ever.
bit surprised that anyone would think this was a good idea, and not spectacularly tasteless.
Book tasteless? Nah.
If they'd decided to retell the experience as a comic musical then yeah, THAT would be tasteless.
...if they had been more likeable people then the whole thing would have been forgotten ages ago...
Ditto if she had not been a pretty little white girl.
Trouble is the truth is probably somewhere in the murky area between the two,
This is a load of rubbish. It's a well known logical fallacy. Please do not use it, it's terribly unfair and nasty in this context. They either did or didn't abduct/kill her, how can it be somewhere between? They may be guilty of neglect but this is a different issue.
@ toys19 - guess you have no sense of irony about replying to my perceived snobbery with a good dollop of self-righteousness. I'm not really clear how what I wrote could be classed as 'snobbery', although I'd admit it runs the risk of being judgemental.
It was actually a serious question - after this amount of time, they're unlikely to get a definitive answer on what happened to their daughter and in the meantime, they have two other children who are just as important as their missing daughter. Generating income to finance the 'quest for Maddie' will keep the whole circus trundling along, fuelled by an understandable unwillingness to accept the statistical realities that their daughter is, in all probability, dead and has been for some time.
In other situations, I'd be tempted to decide it was none of my business, but they've chosen to make it national news.
They might also think that if they don't write their side of the story, it is the tabloid one that will be remembered ?
Meant to be cathartic writing a memoir too, so says Graeme Obree* at the end of his book. Perhaps this is a step towards moving on.
I feel sorry for them, they are a little bit damned if they do and damned if they don't.
*Cyclist - World Famous in Scotland
[i]Mind you if they had been more likeable people then the whole thing would have been forgotten ages ago[/i]
I've never met them, so have no idea if they are likeable or not. If the papers portraying them as unlikeable then maybe this is a reflection on what sells papers rather than them.
they did after all leave a young child alone whilst they went out which given the publicity they've generated (which is fine context of promoting the search) sticks a little in most peoples throats.
I suspect a very large number of parents have done likewise.
It perhaps wasn't "perfect parenting" but the idea that they somehow deserved it for leaving their daughter alone, sticks in my throat far more!
@ toys19 - guess you have no sense of irony about replying to my perceived snobbery with a good dollop of self-righteousness. I'm not really clear how what I wrote could be classed as 'snobbery', although I'd admit it runs the risk of being judgemental.
Just because I called you a snob doesn't mean I'm not one. Secondly you seem to think self-righteousness is a flaw? I think you run the risk of being a ****t, in fact everything you have posted so far confirms this. I would hazard a guess that you don't have kids, because I would never give up looking. They might find her and her rescue may well depend on the parents continued insistence to keep this afloat.
I was tempted to dismiss this as a troll but I think it's more serious than that. I cannot believe anyone would condemn someone for wanting to find their missing child, no matter how you go about it, likeable or not. They will only deserve condemnation if it transpires they did abduct/kill her, but given that no evidence was found and there are no witnesses I don't see this as likely. I for one prefer to uphold the British justice system of innocent until proven guilty.
Meant to be cathartic writing a memoir too, so says Graeme Obree* at the end of his book. Perhaps this is a step towards moving on.
fair point that - I guess I overlooked it in responding to the rationale given on the BBC website, which might not be entirely representative of their thinking.
I deliberately didn't go near the [i]'did they/didn't they'[/i] side of the story - it's very hard to assess that give the degree to which media outlets can spin stories, and I still remember the way Colin Stagg was demonised in the media, and the Daily Mail in particular, prior to being completely exonerated when his case came to an actual court of law.
If I were in their position and somebody kindly informed me that I have two other children who are equally important (with the inference that I should give up on the missing child) I might be inclined to tell them to FO.
I think these people have been let down by the police force in Portugal. How the hell are they supposed to do anything other than carry on with their search? I know I would.
its probably a better idea and less tasteless than leaving their kids unattended in a hotel room in the first place
Sorry but I have little sympathy for the McCanns, whilst it is a terrible thing to have happened to anyone, had they been better parents in the first instance there would be no need for a fund or a book
GrahamS - There's a big difference between 'They deserved it' and 'they were culpable in their negligence'.
Plus the fact they and their friends lied to the rozzers at the outset to appear a little more caring, and less like the worst parents in the world. The first few hours of the search may have gone slightly differently, and who knows what may have happened?
I can't see how they would spin this out in print to keep the readers sympathy. I'll give it a miss on balance.
Ditto if she had not been a pretty little white girl.
MTG - You sound like that mad bitch who faked the kidnap of her own daughter as a moneymaking wheeze on the back of the McCanns fundraising efforts. She kept banging on how they were poorly treated because they were scumbags. And look how that turned out.
Every single thing about this whole case is just plain nasty.
The fact that small kids go missing is awful enough but then there are some people out there that have publicly accused the McCanns of doing the deed. Absolutely disgraceful if you ask me.
We also have the creepy willingness of the media to perpetuate the story, fanning the flames of the McCanns hopes and fears when it is pretty obvious to all that this little Girl ain't coming back. If the freak who took her in the first place had any doubts about keeping her they would have been very quickly resolved when he realised he would become the subject of an international trial by media and subsequent vilification across the western world.
Then there is the prospect of the tens of thousands of other kids who have gone missing since Maddy did and where is their fund? I think this is a prime example of how utterly soulless our mass media can be and I am pretty sure the only people involved in this whole matter who sleep like babies are the journos who have done so well out of the whole affair.
until proven guilty.All depends on your view of the McCanns really. If you believe they were totally innocent in what happened
In what way?I think these people have been let down by the police force in Portugal.
you seem to think self-righteousness is a flaw?
LOL - thank you, I have my quote of the week.
At the end of the day they left their children unattended in a hotel room while they got pissed in a bar. If they hadn't been middle class and white they'd be facing neglect charges. horrible people, such a shame that a totally innocent girl has been abducted and probably killed because of their neglect.
At the end of the day they left their children unattended in a hotel room while they got pissed in a bar. If they hadn't been middle class and white they'd be facing neglect charges. horrible people, such a shame that a totally innocent girl has been abducted and probably killed because of their neglect.
WTF??? Are you completely insane?? Their daughter would not have been abducted if some pervert had not chosen to abduct her.
It all rather depends on what's in the book, doesn't it? I could see how it could be tasteless cashing in or an intelligent book about loss and guilt.
WTF??? Are you completely insane?? Their daughter would not have been abducted if some pervert had not chosen to abduct her.
but she definitely wouldn't of been abducted if they'd been in the hotel room with them would she?
The person(s) who did the deed obviously want stringing up, but the McCanns are just as culpable IMO
@higgo - I think they were let down by the police when the lead investigator publicly declares he thinks they did it! No evidence for this, otherwise they would have been convicted. In a tabloid society, I'm sure they lost a lot of support when that happened.
I think they were incredibly self-centered to leave the kids alone but I have a feeling they have enough guilt in their lives.
At the end of the day they left their children unattended in a hotel room while they got pissed in a bar. If they hadn't been middle class and white they'd be facing neglect charges. horrible people, such a shame that a totally innocent girl has been abducted and probably killed because of their neglect.
I don't think this is "at the end of the day", at the end of the day a child is missing, fine have your witch hunt, but it's not as important as the fact that a child is missing...
Just as another factor in all this, consider the games that Ian Huntly has played with Keith Bennett's family for about 40 years now. I saw a brief interview with Mrs Bennett on tv a couple of years ago and it was a terrible thing to watch someone completely broken by their long drawn out torture.
In that light, how long do the McCann's pursue this before they, and their remaining children, are broken beyond any healing?
toys19 I totally agree. thats why this is so sad. a girl is missing and it could of very easily been prevented.
but the McCanns are just as culpable IMO
Then you sir are clearly a little hard of thinking. What about the little girl who was snatched from the bath in her parents house around the same time? Were they guilty for not locking the windows to their house or not staying with their child for every conceivable moment of the day?
They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am sure every hotel on the continent has at least one unsupervised child within its walls somewhere.
I hope that bad luck never finds you in the same way as it has found the McCanns.
I don't think the McCanns did it, but I do think their parenting leaves a
to be desired, and they have displayed huge arrogance over the whole affair (not based on tabloid reports, but based on interviews I have seen).lot
ditch_jockey - MemberJust as another factor in all this, consider the games that Ian Huntly has played with Keith Bennett's family for about 40 years now. I saw a brief interview with Mrs Bennett on tv a couple of years ago and it was a terrible thing to watch someone completely broken by their long drawn out torture.
In that light, how long do the McCann's pursue this before they, and their remaining children, are broken beyond any healing?
More crap missives..
a) Ian [u]Huntley[/u] Brady. Fixed that for ya.
b) It isnt a factor in any of this, a child is missing, I would be broken as it is, I'd keep looking no matter what or how long, you are still a ****t.
GrahamS - There's a big difference between 'They deserved it' and 'they were culpable in their negligence'.
Sounds pretty similar to me, and a lot of the other posters definitely seem to tip towards the "they deserved it" mentality.
I take it you were all brought up by parents who watched you every second and were never more than 120 meters away from you at any time? Well done. Not every parent is so perfect, but I don't really think that means they deserve to have their children taken or should be any less deserving of sympathy and compassion.
Not every parent is so perfect, but I don't really think that means they deserve to have their children taken or should be any less deserving of sympathy and compassion.
+1
theres a whole section (the same size as crime) in wh smiths entitledTRAGIC LIFE STORIES
I always find that section a bit creepy - it's the way all of the books seem to have a generic cover - a white background with a black and white photo (normally of a child) on the front, and the title in a handwritten-style font in a bold colour.
Torminalis , are you stupid? Of course sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid a tragedy, and if that happens its no doubt heartbreaking. AS I'm sure the McCanns were heartbroken. BUT, THEY LEFT THEIR CHILDREN TOTALLY UNATTENDED IN AN UNLOCKED APARTMENT FFS.
I am sure every hotel on the continent has at least one unsupervised child within its walls somewhere
That doesn't make it right though does it.
I hope that bad luck never finds you in the same way as it has found the McCanns
Bad Luck, and Bad Parenting.
Torminalis , are you stupid? Of course sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid a tragedy, and if that happens its no doubt heartbreaking. AS I'm sure the McCanns were heartbroken. BUT, THEY LEFT THEIR CHILDREN TOTALLY UNATTENDED IN AN UNLOCKED APARTMENT FFS.
I keep saying, so what, it's not relevant to finding the girl. Despite the fact I completely disagree with you, Your condemnation isn't going to contribute to finding her is it?
I'm always reminded of the little lad that went missing in Greece? many years ago when I see the McCanns. They always thought he was taken to keep as a son. The thought that your baby could still be out there, well I don't know how they cope.
Torminalis , are you stupid?
Might well be but I am not the one asserting that she died because of her parents actions. That is like saying rape victims were asking for it.
Anyone who has kids knows that they will make mistakes that put their kids' safety at risk to some extent or another. I have done a few already.
They don't often make the tabloids in the same way tho.
MTG - You sound like that mad bitch who faked the kidnap of her own daughter...
I don't quite get that, but anyway...
How many children go missing each year ?
How many make the front page ?
What's special about this case ?
@Torminalis & molgrips: +1, glad not everyone on here is so blindly callous and self-righteous.
It'll be available here--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Ben_Needham
his grandparents must be evil too
some of you should do some research rather than spouting sh1te
good to see compassion alive and well on STW perhaps we should just burn the McCanns at the stake.
Because we all know what faultless perfect parents reside here - perhaps you could offer us a book on perfect parenting and we can all learn from your flawless behaviour.
It's like the f£ck1ing stoning scene in life of Brian listening to you lot..............
I was originally of the opinion that the McCanns did it. Its by far the most likely explanation when a child is killed or disappears that the family did it.
However their reaction after all this time has led me to change my mind.
However the way the tabloids have built up the case is a horrific abuse and I think a book is an appalling thing to do.
How many children go missing each year ?
68 children (under 18) were abducted by strangers in England and Wales in 2004
according to the http://www.missingpeople.org.uk/media-centre/papers/detail.asp?dsid=603 quoting the Home Office.
99% of all missing persons cases are resolved within one year.
Around 75% within 48 hours.
What's special about this case ?
• Happened abroad in a less-than-perfect parenting situation that many (but not all) parents can empathise with.
• Parents openly tried to use the media to help with the search - which means more story to report, interviews, background etc
• media were hoping that either they were guilt themselves (good story) or that Maddy was found (papers get to pretend they are heroes story)
• parents had enough money and backing to keep the story in the headlines
I think this so there.
You're wrong.
No, [b]you're[/b] wrong.
I think you'll find it is I who am right.
Well, I am righterer than you.
No you are wrong and I have statistics to prove it.
You're statistics are based on wrong; I have made a pie-chart which proves your wrongness.
Your pie-chart is naught but a flim-flam of flimsyness.
Well I don't care 'cos you're a wally.
No, [i]you're[/i] a wally...
I think a book is an appalling thing to do.
Don't forget that Gonçalo Amaral, the head of the regional Polícia Judiciária at the time, has written two books basically saying they did it - despite himself being sacked and charged with falsifying evidence in another disappearance where he arrested the mother and uncle of the disappeared Joana Cipriano.
Perhaps the McCanns, as well as needing funds, thought it might be a chance to reply?
It's like the f£ck1ing stoning scene in life of Brian listening to you lot..
+1.
However, for some perspective on the subject of mob mentality - www.mumsnet.com
Looking at the sour face of her mother, I bet the kid is glad to be shot of her.
No often I'm tempted to reach for the Report button GlitterGary - but that post had me hovering over it... 😐
Yes. That's definitely out of order.
I actually thought it was quite funny. No where near as out of order as the asshats that are sincere in their moral judgements against the poor people.
There's a herd of moral high horses on here. What can you say.
😯
Mate, there's a line.
It's not about moral high horsing.
I take it you were all brought up by parents who watched you every second and were never more than 120 meters away from you at any time? Well done. Not every parent is so perfect,
the world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
there is a big difference between being 120m away, and being pissed in a hotel bar with your children in an unlocked hotel room the other side of a busy hotel complex
Personally whilst I will openly admit I am far from the perfect parent that is one thing I can not contemplate ever doing
Whilst I wouldnt buy or read the book, I would like to see the chapter where they try to justify their actions on that day
(and just for note Im in no way saying they deserved it, just that personally I dont get what goes through some peoples minds when they think they can do something like that)
What part of the post has crossed the line?
The bit that said her mother is sour faced? That's irrefutable. No one could argue with that.
Plus, for all we know, the kid may be happy.
I don't see the problem with garyglitters post, it's just a crap tasteless joke. The OP and the witchburners on here are the ones that have crossed the line.
iain1775 - Memberthe world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
this is simply untrue. Its what the tabloids would have you believe but its not supported by anything factual
toys19 - MemberI don't see the problem with garyglitters post, it's just a crap tasteless joke. The OP and the witchburners on here are the ones that have crossed the line.
Indeed
Any chance we can close this thread please?
It's degenerating rapidly.
Before becoming a father/parent I would have remained stoically very quietly about whether what they did was right/wrong/ill judged/naive whatever adjective you care to apply. I don't think you can hold an informed view of their judgement until you've got kids of your own since being a parent is so far from easy, while having an opinion is the easiest thing in the world
All I can say now as a father/parent is that I would never do what they did.
Not ever
Not in million years would I leave my boy alone in a hotel room where I wasn't in the very best position to protect him.
The McCanns did and they have to live with the consequence and I genuinely feel terribly for them and for the decision they made.
Because the one thing I know now more strongly than what I would have done in their shoes, is how utter and inconsolable must be their pain and torment because they have lost their little girl.
They don't need anyone else's judgement; their own must be more than enough to bear.
this is simply untrue. Its what the tabloids would have you believe but its not supported by anything factual
given you don't know WHEN I was a child I don't see how you can confidently be sure of that 😉
It is kind of irrelevant though as regardless of the world situation I agree xcompletely with the previous poster who has summed it up very nicely, its just something I would never even consider doing
All I can say now as a father/parent is that I would never do what they did.
I wouldn't either, but then I recognise that some people call me a paranoid control freak, but my rational is that whilst it is unlikely, I don't want to take the tiniest risk of losing the greatest things that ever happened to me. It's similar to my fear of flying..
Either way that's personal choice, but I still cannot see the relevance in the search for the kid. They are separate issues.
given you don't know WHEN I was a child I don't see how you can confidently be sure of that
Unless you were a child before records began then TJ can know, because less and less children are abducted each year. LOGIC FAIL.
the world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
there is a big difference between being 120m away, and being pissed in a hotel bar with your children in an unlocked hotel room the other side of a busy hotel complex
Hasn't it actually got safer, despite what the papers tell you?
Depending on what account you read the McCanns were 120m away eating at the tapas bar and frequently checked on their kids. No one would claim that was perfect parenting, especially in light of what happened, but it isn't that unusual, especially in a holiday situation where people's guard may be a little relaxed.
Either way I don't find feeling any less sympathy for them because they were not perfect parents.
I agree with geetee1972.
TandemJeremy - Memberiain1775 - Member
the world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
this is simply untrue. Its what the tabloids would have you believe but its not supported by anything factual
It still doesn't make it acceptable to leave your child unsupervised, TJ, but I don't think you are arguing that bit?
There seem to be quite a few people on here admitting to child neglect, which I find rather disturbing!
Anyone who has kids knows that they will make mistakes that put their kids' safety at risk to some extent or another.
Other than, for instance, banging my kids' heads on doors while swinging them around, I can't imagine putting my kids' safety at risk, and would be taking a long look at myself if I did.
Someone is surprised that someone who names himself after a convicted child sex abuser appears on this thread and makes a distasteful joke.
Gary we could easily explain why a kidnapped child is unhappy to be taken,aginst her will , from her parents and possibly killed/harmed abused if you really need us to but no one is that dumb not even you.
As for her mother being unhappy she has lost her child and does not know what has happened how happy should she look ?
I can't imagine putting my kids' safety at risk, and would be taking a long look at myself if I did.
Is that not exactly what you do when you put them into a car? Of course you can drive extra carefully but there is nothing to say that someone else isn't just going to drive into you. It is not black and white, risk is a scale and to say that your kids will never be put at risk is pretty naive. Moralising about those who accept this fact even moreso.
GrahamS - MemberDepending on what account you read the McCanns were 120m away eating at the tapas bar and frequently checked on their kids. No one would claim that was perfect parenting, especially in light of what happened, but it isn't that unusual, [b]especially in a holiday situation where people's guard may be a little relaxed.[/b]
Why would you get more relaxed about child safety in an unfamiliar setting?
I think, but could be wrong, that the statistics on child abduction/child murder are broadly static over the last 50 years or so.
Torminalis - MemberI can't imagine putting my kids' safety at risk, and would be taking a long look at myself if I did.
Is that not exactly what you do when you put them into a car? Of course you can drive extra carefully but there is nothing to say that someone else isn't just going to drive into you. It is not black and white, risk is a scale and to say that your kids will never be put at risk is pretty naive. Moralising about those who accept this fact even moreso.
You know exactly what types of risk we are talking about, Torminalis. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it, which is just as distasteful as GlitterGary's joke..
Is that not exactly what you do when you put them into a car?
The scariest thing I've ever done was drive my wife and new born son home from hospital.
The whole way home I kept thinking 'who the **** ever thought that cars were a good idea?' Your persepctives change when you become a parent.
Of course I drive my son now. I couldn't function as a parent if I didn't.
Unless you were a child before records began then TJ can know, because less and less children are abducted each year. LOGIC FAIL.
I said the world was not as safe
I didnt say it wasnt as safe because of number of children abducted
there are many more things that affect how safe the world is for a small child than the likelyhood of being abducted
Not all are recorded in crime figures either
For example I could happily play in the street as a child, I couldnt leave my child to play in the street, way too much traffic nowadays
And actually given the lobour government changed the way crime figures are reported, the 'records' are not exactly a like for like comparison are they?
As for comparing putting your kids in a car to leaving them unattended - what kind of supid comparison is that?
When I drive my daughter anywhere I strap her into the best car seat I could get and I take every precaution possible to ensure her safety. yes I cant account fot the actions of others but I have done everything in my power to reduce the risk of harm.... Hardly similar situation is it
jon that is a really loaded question and somehwat redundant Graham has already said you may be more relaxed when on holiday - the bit you emboldened. I guess he is saying on holiday you relax, do things you would not do at home. Butlins used to do a service where they would announce in the club where the crying children were so parents could return to them when I were a nipper sooth them and then carry on drinking. !!! That sort of trust or naivety is a thing of the past
Why would you get more relaxed about child safety in an unfamiliar setting?
Didn't say it was logical, but last time I looked most people go on holiday to relax a bit.
In a nice "safe" luxury hotel compound, surrounded by friends and other well-to-dos, chatting away, everyone in good spirits, on a warm relaxing evening, after a glass or two of Rioja - it could be all too easy to be lulled into thinking the kids are safe, they are only over there, we're checking on them and there are plenty of staff around.
Not sensible in hindsight, but there you go.