@Torminalis & molgrips: +1, glad not everyone on here is so blindly callous and self-righteous.
It'll be available here--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Ben_Needham
his grandparents must be evil too
some of you should do some research rather than spouting sh1te
good to see compassion alive and well on STW perhaps we should just burn the McCanns at the stake.
Because we all know what faultless perfect parents reside here - perhaps you could offer us a book on perfect parenting and we can all learn from your flawless behaviour.
It's like the f£ck1ing stoning scene in life of Brian listening to you lot..............
I was originally of the opinion that the McCanns did it. Its by far the most likely explanation when a child is killed or disappears that the family did it.
However their reaction after all this time has led me to change my mind.
However the way the tabloids have built up the case is a horrific abuse and I think a book is an appalling thing to do.
How many children go missing each year ?
68 children (under 18) were abducted by strangers in England and Wales in 2004
according to the http://www.missingpeople.org.uk/media-centre/papers/detail.asp?dsid=603 quoting the Home Office.
99% of all missing persons cases are resolved within one year.
Around 75% within 48 hours.
What's special about this case ?
• Happened abroad in a less-than-perfect parenting situation that many (but not all) parents can empathise with.
• Parents openly tried to use the media to help with the search - which means more story to report, interviews, background etc
• media were hoping that either they were guilt themselves (good story) or that Maddy was found (papers get to pretend they are heroes story)
• parents had enough money and backing to keep the story in the headlines
I think this so there.
You're wrong.
No, [b]you're[/b] wrong.
I think you'll find it is I who am right.
Well, I am righterer than you.
No you are wrong and I have statistics to prove it.
You're statistics are based on wrong; I have made a pie-chart which proves your wrongness.
Your pie-chart is naught but a flim-flam of flimsyness.
Well I don't care 'cos you're a wally.
No, [i]you're[/i] a wally...
I think a book is an appalling thing to do.
Don't forget that Gonçalo Amaral, the head of the regional Polícia Judiciária at the time, has written two books basically saying they did it - despite himself being sacked and charged with falsifying evidence in another disappearance where he arrested the mother and uncle of the disappeared Joana Cipriano.
Perhaps the McCanns, as well as needing funds, thought it might be a chance to reply?
It's like the f£ck1ing stoning scene in life of Brian listening to you lot..
+1.
However, for some perspective on the subject of mob mentality - www.mumsnet.com
Looking at the sour face of her mother, I bet the kid is glad to be shot of her.
No often I'm tempted to reach for the Report button GlitterGary - but that post had me hovering over it... 😐
Yes. That's definitely out of order.
I actually thought it was quite funny. No where near as out of order as the asshats that are sincere in their moral judgements against the poor people.
There's a herd of moral high horses on here. What can you say.
😯
Mate, there's a line.
It's not about moral high horsing.
I take it you were all brought up by parents who watched you every second and were never more than 120 meters away from you at any time? Well done. Not every parent is so perfect,
the world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
there is a big difference between being 120m away, and being pissed in a hotel bar with your children in an unlocked hotel room the other side of a busy hotel complex
Personally whilst I will openly admit I am far from the perfect parent that is one thing I can not contemplate ever doing
Whilst I wouldnt buy or read the book, I would like to see the chapter where they try to justify their actions on that day
(and just for note Im in no way saying they deserved it, just that personally I dont get what goes through some peoples minds when they think they can do something like that)
What part of the post has crossed the line?
The bit that said her mother is sour faced? That's irrefutable. No one could argue with that.
Plus, for all we know, the kid may be happy.
I don't see the problem with garyglitters post, it's just a crap tasteless joke. The OP and the witchburners on here are the ones that have crossed the line.
iain1775 - Memberthe world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
this is simply untrue. Its what the tabloids would have you believe but its not supported by anything factual
toys19 - MemberI don't see the problem with garyglitters post, it's just a crap tasteless joke. The OP and the witchburners on here are the ones that have crossed the line.
Indeed
Any chance we can close this thread please?
It's degenerating rapidly.
Before becoming a father/parent I would have remained stoically very quietly about whether what they did was right/wrong/ill judged/naive whatever adjective you care to apply. I don't think you can hold an informed view of their judgement until you've got kids of your own since being a parent is so far from easy, while having an opinion is the easiest thing in the world
All I can say now as a father/parent is that I would never do what they did.
Not ever
Not in million years would I leave my boy alone in a hotel room where I wasn't in the very best position to protect him.
The McCanns did and they have to live with the consequence and I genuinely feel terribly for them and for the decision they made.
Because the one thing I know now more strongly than what I would have done in their shoes, is how utter and inconsolable must be their pain and torment because they have lost their little girl.
They don't need anyone else's judgement; their own must be more than enough to bear.
this is simply untrue. Its what the tabloids would have you believe but its not supported by anything factual
given you don't know WHEN I was a child I don't see how you can confidently be sure of that 😉
It is kind of irrelevant though as regardless of the world situation I agree xcompletely with the previous poster who has summed it up very nicely, its just something I would never even consider doing
All I can say now as a father/parent is that I would never do what they did.
I wouldn't either, but then I recognise that some people call me a paranoid control freak, but my rational is that whilst it is unlikely, I don't want to take the tiniest risk of losing the greatest things that ever happened to me. It's similar to my fear of flying..
Either way that's personal choice, but I still cannot see the relevance in the search for the kid. They are separate issues.
given you don't know WHEN I was a child I don't see how you can confidently be sure of that
Unless you were a child before records began then TJ can know, because less and less children are abducted each year. LOGIC FAIL.
the world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
there is a big difference between being 120m away, and being pissed in a hotel bar with your children in an unlocked hotel room the other side of a busy hotel complex
Hasn't it actually got safer, despite what the papers tell you?
Depending on what account you read the McCanns were 120m away eating at the tapas bar and frequently checked on their kids. No one would claim that was perfect parenting, especially in light of what happened, but it isn't that unusual, especially in a holiday situation where people's guard may be a little relaxed.
Either way I don't find feeling any less sympathy for them because they were not perfect parents.
I agree with geetee1972.
TandemJeremy - Memberiain1775 - Member
the world has changed, its not as safe as it was when I was a child
this is simply untrue. Its what the tabloids would have you believe but its not supported by anything factual
It still doesn't make it acceptable to leave your child unsupervised, TJ, but I don't think you are arguing that bit?
There seem to be quite a few people on here admitting to child neglect, which I find rather disturbing!
Anyone who has kids knows that they will make mistakes that put their kids' safety at risk to some extent or another.
Other than, for instance, banging my kids' heads on doors while swinging them around, I can't imagine putting my kids' safety at risk, and would be taking a long look at myself if I did.
Someone is surprised that someone who names himself after a convicted child sex abuser appears on this thread and makes a distasteful joke.
Gary we could easily explain why a kidnapped child is unhappy to be taken,aginst her will , from her parents and possibly killed/harmed abused if you really need us to but no one is that dumb not even you.
As for her mother being unhappy she has lost her child and does not know what has happened how happy should she look ?
I can't imagine putting my kids' safety at risk, and would be taking a long look at myself if I did.
Is that not exactly what you do when you put them into a car? Of course you can drive extra carefully but there is nothing to say that someone else isn't just going to drive into you. It is not black and white, risk is a scale and to say that your kids will never be put at risk is pretty naive. Moralising about those who accept this fact even moreso.
GrahamS - MemberDepending on what account you read the McCanns were 120m away eating at the tapas bar and frequently checked on their kids. No one would claim that was perfect parenting, especially in light of what happened, but it isn't that unusual, [b]especially in a holiday situation where people's guard may be a little relaxed.[/b]
Why would you get more relaxed about child safety in an unfamiliar setting?
I think, but could be wrong, that the statistics on child abduction/child murder are broadly static over the last 50 years or so.
Torminalis - MemberI can't imagine putting my kids' safety at risk, and would be taking a long look at myself if I did.
Is that not exactly what you do when you put them into a car? Of course you can drive extra carefully but there is nothing to say that someone else isn't just going to drive into you. It is not black and white, risk is a scale and to say that your kids will never be put at risk is pretty naive. Moralising about those who accept this fact even moreso.
You know exactly what types of risk we are talking about, Torminalis. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it, which is just as distasteful as GlitterGary's joke..
Is that not exactly what you do when you put them into a car?
The scariest thing I've ever done was drive my wife and new born son home from hospital.
The whole way home I kept thinking 'who the **** ever thought that cars were a good idea?' Your persepctives change when you become a parent.
Of course I drive my son now. I couldn't function as a parent if I didn't.
Unless you were a child before records began then TJ can know, because less and less children are abducted each year. LOGIC FAIL.
I said the world was not as safe
I didnt say it wasnt as safe because of number of children abducted
there are many more things that affect how safe the world is for a small child than the likelyhood of being abducted
Not all are recorded in crime figures either
For example I could happily play in the street as a child, I couldnt leave my child to play in the street, way too much traffic nowadays
And actually given the lobour government changed the way crime figures are reported, the 'records' are not exactly a like for like comparison are they?
As for comparing putting your kids in a car to leaving them unattended - what kind of supid comparison is that?
When I drive my daughter anywhere I strap her into the best car seat I could get and I take every precaution possible to ensure her safety. yes I cant account fot the actions of others but I have done everything in my power to reduce the risk of harm.... Hardly similar situation is it
jon that is a really loaded question and somehwat redundant Graham has already said you may be more relaxed when on holiday - the bit you emboldened. I guess he is saying on holiday you relax, do things you would not do at home. Butlins used to do a service where they would announce in the club where the crying children were so parents could return to them when I were a nipper sooth them and then carry on drinking. !!! That sort of trust or naivety is a thing of the past
Why would you get more relaxed about child safety in an unfamiliar setting?
Didn't say it was logical, but last time I looked most people go on holiday to relax a bit.
In a nice "safe" luxury hotel compound, surrounded by friends and other well-to-dos, chatting away, everyone in good spirits, on a warm relaxing evening, after a glass or two of Rioja - it could be all too easy to be lulled into thinking the kids are safe, they are only over there, we're checking on them and there are plenty of staff around.
Not sensible in hindsight, but there you go.
You know exactly what types of risk we are talking about, Torminalis. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it, which is just as distasteful as GlitterGary's joke.
Not quite sure how that works, I was just making a point about how in life, we are always subject to risk. The McCanns make a judgement about risk which they will regret for the rest of their lives but they are not the first and will certainly not be the last. Plenty of people take far higher risks and come out unscathed. Others do everything to minimise the risk but are very unlucky.
I also do not understand how my wishing to call to account the more judgemental and cruel posters is comparable in any way to making a joke about a dead/missing child. There are very few things that really mess with me but child abduction is one of them. There have been loads of people on this thread who have basically said they deserved it. Those are the people who are out of line, not me me old mucker.
And actually given the lobour government changed the way crime figures are reported, the 'records' are not exactly a like for like comparison are they?
Wrong again. Crime figures for the national crime survey are truly independent and a good comparison. They show offences against children are down dramatically.
You really need to stop believing the tabloids on this.
Torminalis. No one has said that.
They "don't deserve the public sympathy" is not the same as "they deserved to have their child abducted"
You really need to stop believing the tabloids on [s]this[/s] everything.
Fixed that.
PS I knew I'd find a chink, finally I can (slightly) disagree with you. 😆
There are very few things that really mess with me but child abduction is one of them. There have been loads of people on this thread who have basically said they deserved it. Those are the people who are out of line, not me me old mucker.
That's fair enough, Torminalis. I can't sympathise with them, but they certainly didn't deserve it.
I get a little angry when people try to excuse the McCanns' behaviour by saying that everyone else does things like this. Most normal people don't.
That's fair enough, Torminalis. I can't sympathise with them, but they certainly didn't deserve it.I get a little angry when people try to excuse the McCanns' behaviour by saying that everyone else does things like this. Most normal people don't.
I wouldn't have done it, they did not deserve it, but I can still sympathise.
You really need to stop believing the tabloids on this
I havent read a newspaper in years TJ
and I certinaly don't generally believe the rubbish they write
I do however have a child.......
They "don't deserve the public sympathy" is not the same as "they deserved to have their child abducted"
Fair point, I can get a little steamed up on the subject because it freaks me out but nonetheless, what I intended to say was that there seem to be people on this thread who deem the McCanns culpable which to me is just horrible.
So where do you get your information that dangers for children are increased?
So where do you get your information that dangers for children are increased?
Indeed?
