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Loved the Machine Gunners when I was a kid
There's been a bit of chat about CGI already, but I'm not sure I can get past the 'good ol' folk' herding superimposed cows alongside the airfield in episode 1.
Loved the Machine Gunners when I was a kid
To this day, when on a night out, upon leaving the pub, restaurant or cinema, I will invariably ask my companions:
"WHERE WE GOIN' NOW?"
"WHERE YER GOING NOW"
FTFY.
It wasn't even in the book.
When you realise you’ve blown your entire CGI budget in the first three episodes so have to shelve your plans for an epic D Day episode and instead have to the tell the story from the perspective of a bloke who inexplicably slept through the whole thing
Press play….preview-skip……preview-skip……..recap-skip……intro credits-skip……..arrghhhhhhh just play the ****ing show
Apart from that it’s ok viewing
In the book (Red Tail Free) he wrote about his time with the Tuskegee Airman Alexander Jefferson says that while he was a POW the Germans treated him like every other captured officer. Went he went home in mid 1945 and landed in New York, the first thing an American said to him at the dock was "Whites to the Right, n****** to the left"
Think the tuskegee point was that this was the first time US officers of both colours weren’t segregated.
still not watched after episode 2 or 3, sounds like I’m not missing much, I enjoyed the pacific as well, but there was a real feel that the pacific theatre was often forgotten about compared to Europe for many areas
I think it's just the nature of the story. The 100th's losses were extraordinary, as was the courage and perseverance of the aircrew who persisted throughout that period. Unfortunately in a drama you just can't care much about the deaths of people you've never come to know so it essentially boils down to "had a mission, lost a lot of planes, the CGI sequence of the return took way less processing than that of the departure".
It feels like clunky storyline by Ai, followed by fake visuals by Ai. (That's probably not the case here but its where its heading based on this). If this is the future for high budget drama, then this is not looking rosy. This couldn't raise itself up to even lick BoB's boots.
I think it fails as a a drama is that the strategic bombing campaign was basically rinse and repeat.
As for D-Day, they had complete air supremacy and the Luftwaffe barely laid a glove on them, so relatively little drama there.
Final episode is pretty good!
Agreed, probably the second best episode after the on to Africa one.
The last episode was fine.
My uncle , who was killed in bomber command service, would be happy to know that the Brits had nothing to do with the liberation of Europe.
so overall it was a bit heavy on the “USA, USA,USA” in the end
it was a bit heavy on the “USA, USA,USA” in the end
It was a drama about the USAAF though, so that doesn't really bother me.
It was a good episode. Quite downbeat and melancholic in the end, which was quite a thoughtful approach.
Overall, a decent series. It didn't reach the heights of BoB, but that is hard to do, given how good that was. But I'm glad I watched it and will miss settling in every week for a new episode.
In the book (Red Tail Free) he wrote about his time with the Tuskegee Airman Alexander Jefferson says that while he was a POW the Germans treated him like every other captured officer. Went he went home in mid 1945 and landed in New York, the first thing an American said to him at the dock was “Whites to the Right, n****** to the left”
Only found out recently that the Nazi's actually studied the US Jim Crow American race laws on segregation, to see almost what they could get away with...
https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow
Overall, i think if it hadn't been from the same team as BoB, then it would of been considered good, but you can't help but compare it.
It felt very rushed to me, i think it could of done with being 11-12 episodes and showing more of the in-air action, seemed to jump 3-6 months at a time often.
I would normally file criticism about equipment accuracy as overly nerdy and would STFU about them, but given that the production team were shouting loudly about their claims of hyper-realism, I'm duty bound to call out the fact that by 1944 the 100th BG (like many others) had given up their "F" model B17s for "G" model that incorporated a chin turret. So all the B-17 sequences in at least the final episode were 'wrong'.
Overall I would give a 3/5. Some of the air-war shots were amazing, and the pilots using escape lines from Europe was tense and made for good telly. The inclusion of the Tuskegee Airmen felt a bit like tokenism if I'm honest.
I found the end credits extremely moving. I think the fact that as a military aviator, it could well have been me was a big part of that.
I think they were done very well, i think one of the greatest parts of BoB was seeing the real mean at the start and end of the episodes, and a shame that none of those featured are still with us for Masters of the Air, although some of the 100th are still going, a great podcast was We have ways one with "Lucky" Luckadoo at 102 years of age, and still giving talks about the war to students.
I would of liked to have been an aviator, but severe colour blindness means i spent my arm career being thrown out of Hercules and the odd Chinook...
I found the end credits extremely moving. I think the fact that as a military aviator, it could well have been me was a big part of that.
I think they were done very well, i think one of the greatest parts of BoB was seeing the real mean at the start and end of the episodes, and a shame that none of those featured are still with us for Masters of the Air, although some of the 100th are still going, a great podcast was We have ways one with "Lucky" Luckadoo at 102 years of age, and still giving talks about the war to students.
I would of liked to have been an aviator, but severe colour blindness means i spent my army career being thrown out of Hercules and the odd Chinook...
I loved it - although I too was irked that
by 1944 the 100th BG (like many others) had given up their “F” model B17s for “G” model that incorporated a chin turret. So all the B-17 sequences in at least the final episode were ‘wrong’.
The end was especially moving. Learning more about these men and others like them - did so much.
The parts that featured the Tuskegee Airmen, were also great and a reminder of how hard they had to struggle to be in the frontline with effective equipment.
Colour blindness - no issue with “Red on, Green on……..” then??? 🙈🤣
Massive disappointment. I was at first quite engaged, mainly by how did they stay in the air after taking such a battering, but then I realised each episode was basically the same ( a bit like Ice Road Truckers), and the side stories went nowhere. Then the entire series raced towards the finish, leaping over The Great Escape, D-Day, The Tuskegee Airmen, Guns of the Navarone, Kelly's Heroes, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, anyway, just another airtime filler for the streaming channels.
Agreed. It all felt really rushed and cut to the bone in places with little or lo long lasting jeopardy going from episode to episode.
The intro and outro of BoB and FtEttM were missing and that narration really helps tie it all together.
Watchable, but a swing and a miss for me.
I haven't read the book, but I think the TV series would have been much improved if they used the book as inspiration and wrote a new screenplay around that, maybe with the Tuskagee airmen as a parallel story (and a bit of Catch 22 thrown in for black humour). They could have started with the Battle of France and Battle of Britain, with both sides learning that unescorted bombers can't survive in daylight, hence the RAF bombing cities at night because precision bombing wasn't possible. Then go to the training of the B17 crews and forming the 8th Air Force in Britain, then the relearning that bombers can't survive against fighters in daylight. Then the adaptation and use of long-range escort fighters and the destruction of the Luftwaffe in 1944 (I read somewhere that Germany was suffering 50% losses per month of its fighter pilots once the P51s started escorting bombers into Germany). As it was, it just seemed to be a series of fairly unconnected events with a very thin narrative arc to connect it all together. Yes, it showed what happened, but a compelling story needs to show why we should care about what happened.
This thread illustrates the common problem that any film or TV series depicting events in WW2 faces. An 'army' of middle aged men across the land, who have digested every book, film and documentary on the subject! Self taught experts and guardians of the facts, ready to stand in judgement. I am not entirely innocent of this. I think we need to remember though, that these series also have to appeal to people less invested in the minutiae and are primarily entertainment, not 100% historically accurate documentaries.
not 100% historically accurate documentaries.
Yep, fair criticism @blokeuptheroad, but if you look back through the thread, much of the discussion as been around the lack of drama, and the derivativeness of the story telling, and lack of engagement with the characters as well as the accuracy. I think producers set themselves up as a fair target if they say right from the get go that they aimed for as historically accurate as they could be, make a big song and dance about it, and then so very obviously fail at the last hurdle. Compare and contrast with Where Eagles Dare. It makes no claims to be accurate - there's a bloody helicopter in it after all, but the film is still wildly popular as it's exciting, dramatic and twists and turns like a twisty-turney thing. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Personally I found the depictions of the air-war to be some of the best scenes. The sudden change from relative calm to utter death and carnage more or less down to down to chance was some of the most gripping bits. Accurate? Don't really care, it was terrifying and exciting, and made for great telly
This thread illustrates the common problem that any film or TV series depicting events in
WW2any military operational theatre faces.
If nothing else it gives the average joe and insight into a version of what the environment they were operating in was like.
I think that's good enough to keep the memory and interest alive.
I've been digesting my thoughts on the series since watching the final episode on Friday. I can't really escape from the feeling it didn't move or grip me as much as I hoped. I know that's because I can't help holding up BoB as the standard. I have a fair tolerance for the historical stuff, and even though I have a reasonable eye for the details, I do care about the story more than anything. I think the final episode drew things together quite well, and I felt an emotional satisfaction at the end.
I just can't quite decide whether it was the way it was told that is the problem, or whether the focus on that arena of the war, makes in intrinsically difficult to do. But then you look at Catch-22 and Twelve o'clock high, and you know it can work better. I think it is that they have tried to do too much in too little narrative space, and that's why I feel it misses on being excellent. Having read the book, there is so much drama and extraordinary feats, and so many strategic elements, and other moving parts to the story, that it would have been better in 15-20 parts whilst focussing on fewer aspects. It also missed a bit more strategic narration, and I think some more 'Pinetree' action would have helped to frame strategy a bit better.
Back to Twelve o'clock High - there was a fabulous nod to that film as well as being a point of historical accuracy, with the inclusion of the toby jug on the mantlepiece of the officers mess, when Crosby is talking by the fire. Quality touch.
Self taught experts and guardians of the facts
Actual History student here. Any criticism I've made has been mild, and based on my perception of the productions storytelling, not historical accuracy. Its a drama, not a documentary. Besides, I try VERY hard to not be a history bore, even on subjects I'm passionate about, just because it is so ****ing boring and such a stereotype.
Fair comment though, and very true.