MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
my gosh there are some absolute muppets out there
Its quite shocking to see how much vitriol (and just how nasty & sexist some of it is) she has attracted, amazing how so many people are still genuinely offended by the thought that there might have been some black romans!
Wasted far too much time arguing with deluded fools whos view of history is somewhat skewed.
There seems to be a real Trump/ alt right effect here as many of them have confederate flags, trump images or union jacks! as their twitter profiles too
Its 2017 ffs!
Its 2017 ffs!
#fakenews
prove it.
still genuinely offended by the thought that there might have been some black romans!
Thinking that there were no black Roman citizens or soldiery when the empire stretched across north Africa is flat earth-style lunacy.
This image in particular sent them into a frothing spiral of anti-pc rage
especially the amrican comentators
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Imagine their horror at the suggestion Jesus wasn't a pale skinned white man with blonde locks and a blonde flowy beard, and he was actually olive or dark skinned man with black curly hair.
BURN HIM
Not Jesus
Once watched a programme on racist americans and one said [ with neither irony nor understanding] on the english language
Well if it was good enough for jesus then it is good enough for me
WHo knew racists were morons who abuse and ignore facts to fit their fascist hate filled ideology
The only engaging i do with such folk is to hurl abuse at the hate filled stupidity
Her main abuser has turned out to be Nicholas Nassim Taleb, the Author of 'The Black Swan', which predicted the collapse of Freddie Mac / Fanny Mae which precipitated the global financial crash of 2007. For that he gets bragging rights [not that he likes to brag!] but he's been dining out on it for far too long.
He's friend and mentor to David Cameron and his ilk. If you read Taleb's "Anti Fragile' you'll see the idealogical roots of the austerity program foisted upon us by the Condervatives.
He's an interesting writer, heavily influenced by Karl Popper, John Gray, Mandlebrot and Umberto Eco, all good stuff. Twitter is proving to be his downfall though, he's incredibly vain and ambitious, he seems to be gunning for the space vacated by Milo Yianoppolis and is fast becoming a darling of the alt-right. His hero, Karl Popper, [author of 'The spell of Plato, an open society and it's enemies'] will be turning in his grave.
I've read a fair bit of his work, he's always been an arrogant prick but I haven't let that put me off, though I had noticed that he has a bit of an obsession with race. He's Lebanese and goes to great lengths to explain how he is ethnically mediterranean / european as opposed to Arab or Persian. He goes on about it so much that It had started to put me off him, his blowing a gasket at the sight of a cartoon of a non white Roman citizen would seem to point to the fact of someone being unsure of their identity, perhaps suffering from a sort of status anxiety.
He has come to epitomise what he despises, He attacks the educated elites though he is one himself, born not so much with a silver spoon in his mouth as a golden shovel, cosseted with privilege, [grandson and nephew to two foreign ministers, mentored as a child by Sorbonne professors etc]
An intelligent man has turned into a right wing troll and by using twitter and his potty mouth as an outlet anything interesting he likely had to say is headed for the dustbin of history. He's managing to twist critical rationalism into cultural Marxism.
my gosh there are some absolute muppets out there
Ah. You've also been reading the driving/politics threads on here then?
Imagine their horror at the suggestion Jesus wasn't a pale skinned white man with blonde locks and a blonde flowy beard, and he was actually olive or dark skinned man with black curly hair.
Yeh it's a bit of a logic failure, a fair skinned guy with a Spanish name born in the middle east quite some time ago.
Nothing wrong with that. Nothing to see here, unbeliever.
Junkyard - lazarus
BURN HIMNot Jesus
I bet he's relieved after all he's been through to date.
Evading Beards "Historu of Rome" at moment. Great book with good bits of humour thrown into the text.
Not even a page.......brilliant lateral thinking here.... 😯
What?
It's a game.
You've just lost the first round.
🙂
We've now got two pages of thm pretending to get annoyed whilst people guess what he definitely isn't alluding to.
C'mon, you know the rules by now.
😀
Kryton57 - Member
Junkyard - lazarus
BURN HIM
Not Jesus
I bet he's relieved after all he's been through to date.
I believe Blair took out a super-injunction against him stopping any publications of their private conversations, hence the lack of smiting.
Annoyed? Impressed more like....
Aside from this storm in a teacup she does have a history of mixing history with leftwing bollocks, why does academia still feel it's their job to mix the two?
Oh eck, I thought this was about the woman from bake off
I get it now. Sorry
Never had Taleb down as a cup cake man.
enfht - Member
Aside from this storm in a teacup she does have a history of mixing history with leftwing bollocks, why does academia still feel it's their job to mix the two?
Examples ? Or you are up there with the alt-right trolls....
🙂
In the midst of all the noise and confusion, it's a really interesting subject, to be fair.
Kimbers you're not the STW official arbitrator.. go and do your own digging beyond the gaurdian you flamin drongo. 😆
flamin drongo
I don't believe any of our ancestors were birds that were on fire. That's a totally different branch of evolution, probably the Pokemon branch.
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Agreed I've learnt a lot
Leicester Roman cemetary had 7% bodies of African origin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-38172433
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beachy_Head_Lady
High status African, Roman lady in York
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/feb/26/roman-york-skeleton
I've seen this skeleton at the museum of London
But my favourite one is this I looked at this in my project for my very long running degree in archaeology (at my current rate it'll take me 12years to finish)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6293333.stm
^^^
Can't say for sure that their African haplotype came via Romans only that it's earlier than than 500 years that they had a West African ancestor
What if in the future, people see old Pokemon cards and think they are gods?
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enfht - Member
Kimbers you're not the STW official arbitrator.
I dob thee Troll, 3rd class 😉
Aside from this storm in a teacup she does have a history of mixing history with leftwing bollocks, why does academia still feel it's their job to mix the two?
It's well-known that reality has a left-wing bias.
Your investigative skills are unsurpassed, I've never seen so much data on Mary Beards standard-issue flat-pack leftist views, well done you. Point missed maybe?
You see that's why you're only 3rd class, it's like your not even trying...
Mary is a true Great Brit, she just doesn't let the trolls get away with their bullshit.
I recall once having to explain very slowly to someone that a man supposedly born in the middle east just over two thousand years ago might not actually have blond hair and blue eyes.
Unfortunately, some people are utter idiots.
@kimbers - many thanks for your post, makes for very interesting reading.
Her main abuser has turned out to be Nicholas Nassim Taleb, the Author of 'The Black Swan', which predicted the collapse of Freddie Mac / Fanny Mae which precipitated the global financial crash of 2007. For that he gets bragging rights [not that he likes to brag!] but he's been dining out on it for far too long.He's friend and mentor to David Cameron and his ilk. If you read Taleb's "Anti Fragile' you'll see the idealogical roots of the austerity program foisted upon us by the Condervatives.
He's an interesting writer, heavily influenced by Karl Popper, John Gray, Mandlebrot and Umberto Eco, all good stuff. Twitter is proving to be his downfall though, he's incredibly vain and ambitious, he seems to be gunning for the space vacated by Milo Yianoppolis and is fast becoming a darling of the alt-right. His hero, Karl Popper, [author of 'The spell of Plato, an open society and it's enemies'] will be turning in his grave.
I've read a fair bit of his work, he's always been an arrogant prick but I haven't let that put me off, though I had noticed that he has a bit of an obsession with race. He's Lebanese and goes to great lengths to explain how he is ethnically mediterranean / european as opposed to Arab or Persian. He goes on about it so much that It had started to put me off him, his blowing a gasket at the sight of a cartoon of a non white Roman citizen would seem to point to the fact of someone being unsure of their identity, perhaps suffering from a sort of status anxiety.
He has come to epitomise what he despises, He attacks the educated elites though he is one himself, born not so much with a silver spoon in his mouth as a golden shovel, cosseted with privilege, [grandson and nephew to two foreign ministers, mentored as a child by Sorbonne professors etc]
An intelligent man has turned into a right wing troll and by using twitter and his potty mouth as an outlet anything interesting he likely had to say is headed for the dustbin of history. He's managing to twist critical rationalism into cultural Marxism.
Great post
Indeed.
Ta for the links Kimbers, fascinating stuff....
Aside from this storm in a teacup she does have a history of mixing history with leftwing bollocks, why does academia still feel it's their job to mix the two?
1. Because there is no such thing as a-contextual or a-historic knowledge - especially as you move away from the physical sciences towards arts and humanities.
2. Don't worry, there's plenty of right wing bollocks in academia too - especially economics, history, politics, philosophy etc. etc.
I've never seen so much data on Mary Beards standard-issue flat-pack leftist views
With regards to Roman Britain which of her "leftist views" do you disagree with?
Be good if you can quote her exactly as opposed and then explain what she has got wrong.
plenty of right wing bollocks in academia
You forgot anthropology, see "Guns Steel and Germs" by Diamond and "the 10,000 year explosion" by Cochran and Harpending.
You forgot anthropology, see "Guns Steel and Germs" by Diamond and "the 10,000 year explosion" by Cochran and Harpending.
Not familiar with either of these but a quick look suggests standard issue environmental determinism? Like from the 1900s.
Geography and Anthropology were very much at the forefront of imperialism. A right wing project if ever there was one.
Aside from this storm in a teacup she does have a history of mixing history with leftwing bollocks, why does academia still feel it's their job to mix the two?
Why do right wingers and racists get so upset about facts that they have to think they are political? Is it because they cannot deal with the truth or are they just too stupid to grasp it so they shoot the messenger as they cannot negate the message?
[quote=enfht ]Your investigative skills are unsurpassed, I've never seen so much data on Mary Beards standard-issue flat-pack leftist views, well done you. Point missed maybe?
Have you considered negating the facts [or altering your view based on the facts?*] rather than shouting like a deranged drunk that its just left wing bollocks?
so to repeat
WHo knew racists were morons who abuse and ignore facts to fit their fascist hate filled ideologyThe only engaging i do with such folk is to hurl abuse at the hate filled stupidity
* IME racists dont need facts, hate is enough to defeat all reason, sadly.
Septimus severus born in leptis magna has a decidedly Afro hairdo ...
however in a sexist note Bettany Hughes is way hotter than Mary...
nickc .. re: right wing anthropology:
No idea about "the 10000 year explosion", but "Guns Germs and Steel" is hardly right wing.
It's basically an argument against racial determinism as an explanation for how white Europeans took over the world. Suggesting that environment and chance played the major role in e.g. Europe colonising the americas as opposed to the other way around.
That notion, which may be right or wrong in detail (and which rejects the otherwise popular "superiority of the white race" as an explanation) doesn't strike me as a particularly right wing idea.
Accusing ideas of being right wing or left wing (rather than a good or bad explanation of the available evidence) seems to be popular sport here though. Easily accepted slur, no evidence required.
It could almost be mistaken for a shorthand way to poke peoples preconceived biases and let them know how to feel about a subject, book or idea without going to the trouble of thinking for themselves first.
[url= http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe ]Slightly relevant Oatmeal Cartoon.[/url]
Guns Germs and Steel" is hardly right wing.
It's basically an argument against racial determinism as an explanation for how white Europeans took over the world. Suggesting that environment and chance played the major role in e.g. Europe colonising the americas as opposed to the other way around.
I haven't read the book, but that's not going to stop me having an opinion....
[i]however[/i] the issue with these types of determinisms in general and environmental determinism in particular is whilst they start out as (usually...) well meaning attempts to explain things they (esp. once in wider public discourse) quickly collapse into a 'just so' story which posits the status quo as having some sort of apolitical legitimacy and justice.
They tend too elide questions of ideology, morality or ethics which are important aspects of any society - especially at times when enslavement, empire building and annihilation of 'distant others' is at stake.
n.b. environmental causes of societies has a long, long history - and one which is quite unpleasant, for whilst they appear to work against 'innate superiority arguments', historically, they quickly ended up becoming justifications for that superiority.
I have no idea who Mary Beard is, is she perhaps related to Mary Hinge?
Twitter is a cesspit.
This all reminds me of the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Dave ]Book of Dave[/url], a superb piece of writing by Will Self
One way of looking at environmental determinism is to identify the random nature in which events unfold, [are you listening Mr. Taleb] The falsifiable, deterministic component in relation to human evolution is randomness, shit happens, often unexpectedly. Many other factors may or may not be relevant but we can not say for certain that they are uniquely causal.
If we begin to go down the avenue of determinism, however noble our intentions, [though I fail myself to see any nobility in it] the facts become trimmed to suit the hypothesis. We are bound to find nothing conclusive and likely, inevitably precipitate the stirring up of ill founded and ill informed prejudice.
Whenever we see a writer embarking on such determinism we should first ask why? The supporting information can never be anything more than anecdotal, even if in itself the information may be factually correct. A model is created that cannot be tested, unless you're prepared to replicate the social and political 'experiments' of the 1930's. We know where that gets us and that's why some of us are uneasy with the way political and intellectual discourse is going at the moment.
If your an established writer pursuing these avenues and then further disseminate condensed versions of your ideas through the university of twitter you're indulging in the scholarly equivalent of putting your hand in a fire to see at what temperature skin burns, [Skin in the game Mr Taleb?] You've proved that skin can be burnt but what's the ****ing point? It's a no win game unless your only concern is for self aggrandisement. Wether you are seeking to aggravate or not, aggravation will be the outcome, both for you and the society in which you live.
These things are best left to counterfactual history, where they can remain in the abstract and be discussed relatively, where possible outcomes can be floated rather than present conditions being definitively ascribed to selective facts . determinism is determined to become political science, which is like voodoo but worse.
Ascribing left wing or right wing propaganda to everything is a fruitless task. Everything is nuanced, we know this and always knew this, we can take this into account and form our own conclusions rather than rush to one side or the other. That's why cross referencing of media is good, read the guardian and the telegraph and try not to agree with either, just test their arguments against what you know and remember that everyone's wrong most of the time.
It's not about being either right or wrong, The danger is that of being not even wrong.
I have no idea who Mary Beard is,
She's the one in ZZ Top without the beard.
Dont forget Nina Ramirez & Alice Roberts !