Have you met him? Try having his voice in your head while reading it. Doesn’t seem in any way abnormal then.
worse than vermin.
Small businesses having to step in to feed children as an act of charity, this country is a shadow of its former shelf. It's pathetic.
@kelvin No, it’s fake news I think. Have you fact checked this? What is your source on this? Don’t go around spreading things you aren’t 100% sure are true IMO, makes you no better than them 😕
I’m afraid it’s from Facebook… so bucket of salt time…
https://m.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10157249199946876&set=a.10151589275196876
I don’t have access to his mailbox to verify, obvs.
He’s done and said far worse before.
FFS 😂I’m afraid it’s from Facebook
Please don’t get news from FB, if you must then spend a few mins fact checking before passing it on. Just makes you look daft & helps no-one.
Full story, still doesn’t make him look great but not nearly as bad (or ridiculous sounding) as the doctored version:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/jfkcqb/i_emailed_my_local_mp_philip_davies_of_shipley/
He has replied to multiple people saying much the same thing.
His views are well known. Have some local press from this week if you want:
i liked this comment on the hull times after the .... feed yer kids not yer habit and all poor are obese comments
I’m not taking it personally at all. I just can’t stand to hear judgemental claptrap and venom being sprayed at people who find themselves in a unfortunate position. You are lucky to have a job at the moment, when furlough ends next month there are going to be thousands who aren’t so lucky. I just hope that your trade isn’t affected when all the companies start going belly up, which will have a knock on effect to all manor of industries. I honestly hope you don’t find yourself in the situation that you’re relying on benefits and free school meals. There are jobs about at the moment, but there won’t be soon. One thing you can rely on is you’re not special, you’ll never be indispensable and there’s no such thing as a job for life.
As above, a significant number of people who are in employment are on benefits thanks to minimum wage zero hours contracts. Lots of businesses like retail, pubs and services don't give employees more that 19 hours of hours of work so they can Universal Credit - effectively benefits are being used to subsidise minimum wage employment. Of course the directors of supermarkets and pub chains can pay them handsome bonuses because they've got access to a subsidised workforce- even better when they make them all "apprentices" because they can pay them below minimum wage. Another reason why Brexiteers didn't want the EU poking their noses into the realities of UK employment legislation.
They disagree because they think people choose to go on benefits, rather than end up in situations that force it on them. I can’t help their prejudices about people on benefits.
I'll be sure to let him know he shouldn't be prejudiced about members of his own family 😉
You don’t think that happens? People being prejudiced against groups despite having family members and friends in that group? That idea that people are “attracted” to benefits is based on the prejudice that people choose to be poor because they are lazy. It’s as old as the hills.
Anyway, Rashford’s Twitter is amazing right now. All the groups offering help all over Britain.
davies proving himself to be a **** - again.
All the groups offering help all over Britain
Which is really great - but, it takes the focus away from johnson and his fellow shits for doing nothing; in fact, what they did was worse than nothing - it was a clear rejection of children in need of help.
One piece of good which may come from this is a widespread rejection of and revulsion at johnson and the other amoebas by all right-thinking adults now and, in years to come, by those children when they have a voice and are able to vote.
I hope this will turn into a '...reap what you sow' event.
I see the mild expletive filter is working; 4 letters, watt re-arranged.
As for davies, I would very happily push him down a flight of stairs then help him back to the top - and push him down again and repeat ad infinitum.
public lynching would be quicker
klunk - yes, agreed but it would be much less enjoyment.
Kelvin, I have personally met, and he has obviously known, because he's bloody related to them, people that choose to be on benefits. To deny that this is possible is quite odd. He stated that free school meals would make being on benefits more attractive. To someone who does choose to live off benefits, it does. My counter argument to him was that making life better for the children involved was independent from the circumstances of their parents. And as you say, for most, it isn't a choice.
At this point, I'm either failing to communicate well, or I'm more of a **** than I think I am 🙁 I'd like to think I'm not prejudiced against people on benefits. But I'm also interested in how it's possible for people to actually vote against what Rashford is proposing. Because I think understanding what drives that mentality is how we collectively move towards a fairer society.
That was never a contentious view
you ****ing shit yes it was, when the war office complained that the recruits were too undernourished to be any use to the army in 1914. what a ****!
public lynching would be quicker
But not as much fun.
you * shit yes it was, when the war office complained that the recruits were too undernourished to be any use to the army in 1914. what a *!
And his statement makes no sense. Primarily these parents are taking responsibility. It's more secondarily - you know, in the middle of a global pandemic that's decimated the economy - that a bit of state aid might be appropriate.
After my dad died my mum brought up 4 kids for a good number of years (until we were all old enough for her to go back to work) on her windows pension and our child benefits.
She wasn’t an idler. A qualified teacher who had retrained as a nurse. Jist no family support to look after us kids while she worked so she had to stay at home, a 3 bed council terrace house.
Free school meals, clothing vouchers, charity shops, getting bones from the butcher ‘for the dog’ that were used to make stock for stews as we didn’t often have actual meat.
It was shit. I was often hungry, always getting picked on for wearing old crappy clothes (or the stupid duffle coats and cheap nasty shoes we got from the Council). The whole experience of my younger years affected me deeply in ways I’ve never really got over (& did so for my sisters and brother too). I find it quite upsetting that in this day and age, 40 years later we can still have kids in the situation my siblings and I were in.
Walk a mile in their shoes. Which will probably loom like poncy expensive ones but will most likely be crappy knock-offs from the local market which don’t really fit that well and will prob a fall apart in 6 months. But they were bloody cheap...
But I’m also interested in how it’s possible for people to actually vote against what Rashford is proposing. Because I think understanding what drives that mentality is how we collectively move towards a fairer society.
The problem IMO is largely that many of these often incredibly privileged people like to think of themselves as being self-made independent success stories but actually they are ignoring all the help they had along the way.
So the attitude is 'well if I can be successful why can't they, they must be lazy' because in their minds everyone has the same opportunities and support they did. This is just plain arrogance/delusion though, I'm not sure how you would combat it.
There will be significant numbers of people out there who were supporting their families just fine for years, but are now out of work and on benefits, and you don't get support for more than 2 kids from the government, so they literally don't have enough to live on.
To understand the difference between tories and real people:
"Conservative MP Jo Gideon is being asked to quit as a trustee of an anti-hunger charity after voting down plans to extend free school meals into the holidays backed by Marcus Rashford.
Feeding Britain - whose President is Archbishop Justin Welby - has done extensive reserach into holiday hunger among children.
Today Emma Lewell Buck, MP for South Shields, who co-founded the organisation in 2015 with former MP Frank Field, said Gideon's actions did not fit with their mission statement and she "needs to go"."
The problem IMO is largely that many of these often incredibly privileged people like to think of themselves as being self-made independent success stories but actually they are ignoring all the help they had along the way.
Honestly though, there aren't that many incredibly privileged people. Definitely not enough to deliver the massive tory majority we have. And my mate would wet himself if you described his upbringing as such 😉 I can kind of understand the middle class delineation of otherness, part self defence and part self congratulatory.
But it properly threw me when someone from a background of grinding poverty was against the fsm proposal. And I think we're in for a ****ing long stint of austerity unless we can understand that mindset and engage with it.
To understand the difference between tories and real people:
And yet, 14M unreal people managed to vote tory last year. Surely unreal people would be barred from voting? After all, if you couldn't hold a pen, how would you put your mark? It's a mystery.
Honestly though, there aren’t that many incredibly privileged people. Definitely not enough to deliver the massive tory majority we have.
I'm not saying that describes everyone who votes Tory I'm more talking about the MPs tbh. Also, many people are a lot more privileged than they'd like to admit.
Less well-off people voting Tory is an absolute mystery to me. I think we're just quite an individualistic country.
Less well-off people voting Tory is an absolute mystery to me
Talk to a few of them and you will solve your mystery. To sum up;
They believe what they are told / read in Daily Mail/ hear from mates / read on Facebook.
I see Farage has poked his head over the parapet and criticised the government on this.
Accepting that even broken clocks are correct twice a day, I'm a little concerned at him sticking his oar in and jumping on a genuine populist cause, after the shitstorm he created with Brexit.
Smacks of opportunistic headline grabbing, he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who has the best interests of ordinary people at heart.
Talk to a few of them and you will solve your mystery. To sum up;
They believe what they are told / read in Daily Mail/ hear from mates / read on Facebook.
Very much this. The problem with social media - and real life - is that you gravitate towards your "own kind" and rapidly lose touch with the thought processes of "others". Which leads to the kind of complacency that leads to 80 seat Tory majorities.
But I'm realising now how attractive "Get Brexit Done" sounded to people with little interest in politics. It had dragged on for years, dominated the news and divided friends and families. Voting for the party who were suggesting it just needed finishing and it would go away must have sounded attractive at a surface level.
And that Brexit Fatigue is now being replaced with Covid Fatigue as people are being ground down by restrictions and economic hardship.
Talk to a few of them and you will solve your mystery. To sum up;
They believe what they are told / read in Daily Mail/ hear from mates / read on Facebook.
What a patronising answer. There have always been a lot working class Tories, they identify with hard work and are proud to support themselves and not rely on others. This is often interpreted as I'm alright Jack, they would see it as taking responsibility for themselves and their families. Nothing boils their urine more than people they grew up with seemingly no worse off than they are despite predominantly living on benefits.
If you want to have a go take a look at the red wall who changed allegiance to get the foreigners out.
Anyway the current government aren't Tories, they are corrupt, self serving scum purely in it for themselves. Real Tories do have a valid ideology in the same way Corbyn and co did, you may not like it but its a legitimate position in a democracy. A lot of people do identify with these policies as shown by the number of Tory vs Labour governments over the last 60 years. If it's of any relevance I voted Corbyn last time around as the current shower are so far from proper Tories I'd rather have had Corbyn running the country.
So maybe if you don't understand why working people on low wages vote Tory you might want to educate yourself rather jumping to lazy stereotypes and assuming they are incapable of thinking for themselves just because you dont have the capability to think beyond your view of the world.
It's not surprising a lot of Tory voters don't advertise their allegiance as people who dont like Tories immediately accuse them of being selfish nasty people rather than engage with the policies, playing the man is not a good way to change someone's mind.
There have always been a lot working class Tories, they identify with hard work and are proud to support themselves and not rely on others. This is often interpreted as I’m alright Jack, they would see it as taking responsibility for themselves and their families. Nothing boils their urine more than people they grew up with seemingly no worse off than they are despite predominantly living on benefits.
I get what you're saying and it's a valid view but the trouble is that this world view is often provably based on prejudice not reality. I'm always posting the 'british public wrong about nearly everything' survey but it shows quite clearly people think there are massively more benefit cheats, immigrants than there really are, and that benefits are more generous than they really are etc etc
If we are saying we need to listen to how these people feel, regardless of whether it's fair or justified, well...
And while they may have a genuine desire for people to be more independent, this is very easily manipulated into blaming the wrong targets, when the people they are voting for are really the problem.
Anyway the current government aren’t Tories,
They are.
I'm very impressed by Marcus rashford. A young man that is grounded, honest, compassionate, understanding. He is arguing
Articulate and presenting this issue really simply and clearly. By doing so he's running rings around the politicians. As a top footballer he could so easily be very different and remote from reality. Top marks Marcus! Top marks.
I get what you’re saying and it’s a valid view but the trouble is that this world view is often provably based on prejudice not reality. I’m always posting the ‘british public wrong about nearly everything’ survey but it shows quite clearly people think there are massively more benefit cheats, immigrants than there really are, and that benefits are more generous than they really are etc etc
Equally though, remember when you're discussing this with someone that it can be their own experiences, rather than prejudice. Obviously there is prejudice everywhere. (look at the traveller threads on here, for example!). IMO simply dismissing peoples experiences makes it much more difficult to engage with them on a much broader range of issues. Because you've read the stats and look to the overall impact, doesn't mean that immigration, for example, hasn't been an issue for some individuals. I guess I'm hoping there's a path that means you can acknowledge that issues exist but also point to the successes and suggest where things can be improved.
johnson's new slogan...starve a kid to save a quid.
I get what you’re saying and it’s a valid view but the trouble is that this world view is often provably based on prejudice not reality. I’m always posting the ‘british public wrong about nearly everything’ survey but it shows quite clearly people think there are massively more benefit cheats, immigrants than there really are, and that benefits are more generous than they really are etc etc
Thanks Grum, not quite the response I was expecting here but if we ever need a response that engages with the argument rather than being personal you've just provided a great example.
I also think you're right regarding public perception, it is usually skewed to one extreme or another. I actually agree the number of people actively gaming the system is pretty small, theres a much larger proportion on benefits because they've given up hope, just dont have the life skills to hold a job down or make little effort to get off benefits. There's also a big proportion who are temporarily on benefits between jobs, who despite the soul crushing lack of support get them selves back into work. These people are not benefit cheats or actively choosing to live on benefits, but for other people who've pulled themselves out of that vicious cycle i can see their point. Yes some of it will be based on prejudice but a lot of it is if i can do it why cant they and why despite the effort I put into life is my my lifestyle only marginally better.
I'll also admit this place has changed my perceptions on this, if you'd asked me 10 years ago I'd have lumped everyone into the useless ****ers category, shared experiences on here have proved that view wrong, but some posters here also seem to default to everyone on benefits are victims of society whilst people who work hard and support themselves are selfish me first Tories. Like everything in life its way more nuanced.
Equally though, remember when you’re discussing this with someone that it can be their own experiences, rather than prejudice.
or it can be their own prejudiced experience. My father always accused me of laziness etc when I left school in the mid 80's and couldn't get a job. He related it to his experiences in the 60's when you could just walk up to a factory and choose from a list of vacancies. He didn't realise the world had changed and bought the tory propaganda rather than listening to my experiences.
whilst people who work hard and support themselves are selfish me first Tories.
The problem is, most people work hard. IME there is little link between hard work and success. So it is the claim that "I work hard to support myself and my family etc" as an argument that therefore anyone who can't support themselves must be lazy, brings about the accusation of selfish tory. There are those who work hard, understand they have had the opportunities to turn that hard work into success and still have compassion for those less fortunate, such as Markus Rashford.
"one school in Mansfield 75% of kids have a social worker, 25% of parents are illiterate. Their estate is the centre of the area’s crime. One kid lives in a crack den, another in a brothel. These are the kids that most need our help, extending FSM doesn’t reach these kids.”
"£20 cash direct to a crack den and brothel really sounds like way forward with this one”, writing: “That’s what FSM vouchers in the summer effectively did …”"
Quote from MP
Seems like the tories have lost their appetite for the culture war they started and fuelled.
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1319769192858529793?s=20
Ah these soft millennials that can't take a bit of banter.
/s
The letter also says please stop asking us nasty questions about why we keep cocking up everything whilst siphoning off public money
Am I the only one who read the 2nd comment about Rayner that she did behave like an MP?
"...nor the first time she had behaved with the standards expected of a Member of Parliament"
So basically she's expected to be raucous, judgemental and rude towards gobby shysters?
Theres a much larger proportion on benefits because. . .
they are underpaid by their employer or don't have enough hours to live on, or they are of pensionable age.
This is where the majority of benefit spending goes. Of the two the subsidy to employers should be ended as the mark of a civilised people is that they look after their old and young.
EDIT @dazh The put-upon MP's have forgotten that if you're going to throw you've got to be able to catch. My MP is amongst that festering pile of scum that signed the letter.
That letter is nothing more than an attempted distraction tactic; divert attention away from the increasing problems that johnson and his clown circus have and are incapable of managing but it's a failure.
Test, track, test, isolate - failed.
Brexit transition - failing.
Litigation for unfair contract awards - PPE and others; in progress.
Rejecting children in poverty.
Coronavirus management plan - non existent.
johnson - a failed leader with an increasingly fractured personal life.
johnson no longer the useful idiot needed by cummings and gove - now a useless idiot.
What I find most depressing about this whole thing is how quickly it has degenerated into an argument about the deserving vs undeserving poor. A lazy trope which previously was consigned to Victorian times but Boris and co appear to have brought back to us with gusto.
My local MP is Tory and to his credit one of the few who voted against this despicable and cowardly government.
It's funny how it's ok to openly and repeatedly use words like traitor, surrender, betrayal etc which get used to abuse Labour MPs (who lets not forget have been actually murdered in recent memory for their views), but saying 'scum' under your breath about people voting to starve poor children, then apologising is apparently crime of the century.
But it's the left who are the snowflakes.
