[Closed] March against a big supermarket being built in Marple...

Good luck with that one. We have a huge ASDA and Sainsbury's within a mile of our house and Tesco and Morrisons are both building hypermarkets within the same mile radius.

Every single local councillor voted against the tesco in chorlton! It was approved anyway! The government recently changed planning rules so it is now all but impossible to stop one of these bohemouths once things have been set in motion! Good luck with it!

Where are they going to build it?

bohemouths

Sorry, but lol. 🙂

Where are they going to build it?

The college is shutting down the site on Hibbert Lane and just running the Buxton lane site. Apparently they can get £4m off a housing developer or £12m off a supermarket, even despite the fact that it's in land that's designated as "housing, non-commercial". The supermarkets know they'll win. The college were trying to sneak it through but word leaked it and it's gone nuts round here

Agreed, local shops FTW.

I can not imagine why anybody would prefer small local shops to the more convenient supermarkets.
With the price of living being what it is, surely everybody is looking to get more for their money.

That doesn't stop you coming shopping in Glossop though, as I recall - Nimbys R Us opens its doors shortly... 😉

[that was directed at Bunnyhop btw]

I can not imagine why anybody would prefer small local shops to the more convenient supermarkets.

Quality costs, mate. I don't mind paying for food that tastes nice rather than processed plastic rubbish.

I can not imagine why anybody would prefer small local shops to the more convenient supermarkets.
With the price of living being what it is, surely everybody is looking to get more for their money.

nbt - Member

I can not imagine why anybody would prefer small local shops to the more convenient supermarkets.

Quality costs, mate. I don't mind paying for food that tastes nice rather than processed plastic rubbish.

Hope it's a Waitrose, then...

nbt - Member
Quality costs, mate. I don't mind paying for food that tastes nice rather than processed plastic rubbish.

With the price of living being what it is, surely everybody is looking to get more for their money.

I've recently started doing my Fruit and Veg shopping at the the local greengrocers because it's a lot cheaper than ASDA where I used to get it. Butchers is more expensive, but I believe where meat is concerned you get what you pay for. Don't get me started on the place I get my fish. Right on the quay where its landed, friends with the manger of the shop, whatever I ask for it never costs more than a fiver, last week I got 4 dover sole fillets, two sides of cod and a big bag of salmon offcuts for 3 quid.

Talk to your local shopkeepers, make friends with them, you'll end up getting stuff for a lot less than supermarkets charge!

Supermarkets aren't all bad. My local high street has a precinct thingy which had a somerfield in it. Very few people used it, or the other shops. One by one they started to close. When Somerfield closed Sainsbury's took up the lease and the place is buzzing again. No more shops have shut, and more have opened (including a butchers which does very well, a terribly middle class coffee shop, and a kids play place). The rest of the high street has benefited too with a couple of independent coffee shops opening up.

If there's enough folk agree with you

Yep, these demos tend really to be against other residents, rather than the supermarkets themselves. No supermarket chain would ever bother opening a new store in an area where they felt the local people weren't interested, and would only shop in local shops. They're not in the business of losing money. And to be fair where this is deemed to be an issue many of the big boys have in recent years opened small local versions of their stores. Which have proved to be highly successful in satisfying local demand.

Of course what would be a completely story, would be if the new supermarkets once opened, deliberately sold goods at a loss, and then having forced local shops out of business, upped the prices. I've seen Tesco do that locally with fuel/petrol stations. And I've seen Boots buy up a highly successful local independent chemist, and then immediately close it. But those tactics are not generally used by the big supermarket stores.

IMO the best way to help local shops is to give them huge council tax relief, whilst slapping massive council taxes on out of town stores. After all they do contribute more to environmental issues such as congestion, pollution, etc, and reduce employment opportunities, which all adds to local costs.

Supermarkets create a lot of jobs, full and part time,also name a small shop, that gives clubcard points,that doesnt have some customer chatting drivel to the staff, holding the queue up, and thinking because they know the staff names theyre a special customer.

Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.

Supermarkets create a lot of jobs

If you look at the volume of goods which goes through supermarket checkouts, in relation to the amount of staff required to process it, I suspect you'll find that supermarkets are not as labour intensive as local shops. Which is undoubtedly one of the ways they keep their prices down.

People don't buy stuff from supermarkets which they would otherwise not buy. If they did, then it would be fair to say that supermarkets create jobs. But if I hadn't bought my 25 rolls of toilet paper from Costo the other week, I would have bought toilet paper from somewhere else. Costco have not "created" any jobs. And supermarkets generally don't - they destroy jobs in fact.

Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.

You forgot to mention the elderly people who can't jump into their cars and drive to the out of town stores, but might yet still need a packet of butter or some bog paper.

lots of jobs for drivers, van delivery drivers,part time jobs, suitable for single parents,24 hour opening needs more staff, then there are the cleaners, security, and maintance staff, all jobs smaller shops seem to do without, especially the cleaners, as some small shops even the flies dont in.

You forgot to mention the elderly people who can't jump into their cars and drive to the out of town stores, but might yet still need a packet of butter or some bog paper.

andf for them you have the sm,aller tesco metros, and sainsburys, along with the new morrisons coming soon

Supermarkets create a lot of jobs, full and part time

They don't tend to pay a lot though generally do they. And the profits generated are much less likely to be spent in the local community.

who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.

Plenty of things in my greengrocer are from the local area. And it's cheaper than Tesco. All of the meat from the butcher is local. It is a touch more expensive than Tesco for most things, but in a different league quality wise. The bakers is the same. The market in Salisbury is fantastic and is on twice a week. I do still buy stuff at the supermarket but it tends to be non-perishable stuff.

I can not imagine why anybody would prefer small local shops to the more convenient supermarkets.

The small, local shops are local. The "convenient" supermarkets are not. If, for example, I go to the market, I absolutely guarantee it's quicker than going to Tesco. Granted I may have to carry some bags around rather than pushing a trolley, but I cope somehow 😉

ernie_lynch - Member
IMO the best way to help local shops is to give them huge council tax relief, whilst slapping massive council taxes on out of town stores.

I think the trick is to get the supermarket to open in the town centre, not on the ring road. That way, shops nearby get extra passing trade and everyone's a winner. If there isn't a supermarket in town now, where do you go for cereal, washing powder, bog roll and the like?

We're quite lucky our market as survived, though it has shrunk a fair bit, but the businesses in there, especially the meat and fish market give a quality way beyond the supermarkets, and cheaper too. Some are online too.

[b][i]"lots of jobs for drivers"[/i][/b]

Have you seen the size of Tesco lorries, and what just one man can deliver ?

[b][i]"24 hour opening needs more staff"[/i][/b]

People aren't buying more stuff because some supermarkets are open 24 hours, they're simply buying it at different times.

[b][i]"all jobs smaller shops seem to do without, especially the cleaners"[/i][/b]

You were running out of ideas, weren't you ?

The last SNP Government in Scotland proposed a "Supermarket tax" (35% increase in business rates)

I didn't know that, it's the way to go imo. Although subsidy/tax relief for local shops is still important imo, they are after all providing a sometimes very necessary service. And that also applies to local Tesco Sainsburys etc.

I think the trick is to get the supermarket to open in the town centre, not on the ring road. That way, shops nearby get extra passing trade and everyone's a winner. If there isn't a supermarket in town now, where do you go for cereal, washing powder, bog roll and the like?

Plenty of non-perishables available on our market still. But I agree it's tough for a shop to survive selling that kind of stuff. We do have a hardware/homeware shop in my little town which I use occasionally. It looks like Arkwrights 🙂

And that also applies to local Tesco Sainsburys etc.

I don't want to agree with that. But our little town had a one-stop, which was tiny and shite. A small budgens was opened about a year ago and I'd swear that the greengrocers is busier than before, so maybe it does have a knock-on effect? I'm still hoping that the one-stop will close and something better opens in it's place though.

My wife forgot her purse when she went to the butchers this week. He said just to drop the cash in when she was passing next. A supermarket wouldn't have done that.

Which reminds me, I need to put that steak on.

[url= http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/imageuploads/1275575786_80.177.117.97.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/imageuploads/1275575786_80.177.117.97.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Isn't Tesco Express a combination of convenience store, erm, convenience and superstore prices? The best of both worlds. And if anyone thinks that the supermarkets have any other agenda except making money, think again.

Isn't Tesco Express a combination of convenience store, erm, convenience and superstore prices?

Not IME of the one-stop and budgens. They tend to be very expensive.

People aren't buying more stuff because some supermarkets are open 24 hours, they're simply buying it at different times.

Really?

And if anyone thinks that the supermarkets have any other agenda except making money, think again.

Eh?

Eh?

They're not in the business of keeping customers happy

Really?

Eh ?

A couple of Marple residents on hearing the news........

[IMG] [/IMG]

I followed (by coincidence) a middle aged couple through Marple this morning. They'd just signed the "Say No to Hibbert Lane Supermarket" petition at the little gazebo stand outside the two already closed down shops. I'd parked my bike up in the Co-op supermarket car park. I was also two places behind the same couple in the check out queue in the afore mentioned supermarket ten minutes later.
I really love irony and hypocrisy.
I wonder how may other of the sign erecting, petition branding objectors secretly dive into the Co-op or even Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove to save a couple of quid on their shopping when nobody's looking?
I know a couple straight off.

End of the day people demand convience. So unless there was demand, supermarkets wouldn't build and develop.

Eh?

Ernie - I'm challenging this statement

People aren't buying more stuff because some supermarkets are open 24 hours, they're simply buying it at different times.

I don't see why supermarkets would open 24 hrs if they didn't think folk would buy more stuff from them as a result. But maybe you have evidence to back up what you said? I don't have any evidence to support my thinking other than Tesco directors having a legal obligation to run the business profitably.

Whaddya think?

name a small shop, that gives clubcard points

A friend who shops at the supermarket buys too much stuff and ends up throwing loads if it away, along with the packaging and bags. I try and buy for the meals I need locally and nothing is thrown away.

Take the humble cucumber:

Bought from supermarket bland tasting and last up to 5 days.
Bought from the local greengrocers very tasty and lasts up to 8 days.
Home grown, delicious and can last up to 2 weeks.

Our butcher and greengrocer buy in food that mostly locally sourced.
Supermarkets will buy for example strawberries from Kent drive them to their packing depot in Birmingham and then transport them around the country.

Edit: we were in Beeb telly and ITV telly so that's good for our cause.

DS - you implied that maximising profits and keeping customers happy are not related.
I'm suggesting that they are.

Does your greengrocer get his bananas and oranges locally too?

Does your greengrocer get his bananas and oranges locally too?

Anyone who thinks local shops aren't in the business of making money are deluded.

[url= http://www.monbiot.com/2009/08/10/tesco-opted/ ]you don't stand a chance[/url]

MBAs are w4nk, but I am AWESOME. 😉

Can I just check Jane, is your household's admiral stance against the giant corporates and support of the small locals a recent occurence or has it long been your [i]joint[/i] position?

Whaddya think?

I thinking supermarkets don't create jobs by being opened 24 hours, which was the suggestion.

People don't by more stuff, they just buy it at different times. Sure, the individual supermarket might sell more stuff, but no extra jobs have been created. In fact I believe that much of the thinking behind a large supermarket being opened all night is that they are stacking shelves anyway, so they might as well serve some customers at the same time. And if Tesco for example find that 10% of their customers want to shop at a 2 o'clock in the morning for some bizarre reason, then they can reduce their staff by 10% during they day. No "extra" jobs are ever created by supermarkets.

Right, I'm getting a serious bollocking for wasting time, so I'll leave it at that.

People don't by more stuff, they just buy it at different times. Sure, the individual supermarket might sell more stuff, but no extra jobs have been created

Right, I'm getting a serious bollocking for wasting time, so I'll leave it at that.

First time for everything.

Can I just check Jane, is your household's admiral stance against the giant corporates and support of the small locals a recent occurence or has it long been your joint position?

Call me a nimby if you like, people of STW (however I'm not really near the part of Marple where this proposed site is) and I do shop in the local supermarket (co-op and Sainsbury's in the Grove), but I believe when a giant supermarket comes into a small place, the village suffers. Although supermarkets will always argue that they bring custom in. Which is rubbish, as no one will leave a supermarket, leave the free carpark, then drive nearer the village park their car up again and pay 30p then go around all the local shops.

I'm not sure I'd call Marple a village

I was going to say, I'm confused because I've seen you and your husband in Sainsbury's Hazel Grove on three occasions and your husband in the Co-op in Marple twice with food produce in the basket.
I have to be honest, I was previously aware of this public stance that you both have and I wondered how it fits in with buying food produce from two major supermarkets.
I'm [b]really[/b] confused now though.
Marple is about as much a village as Reddish 🙂

Stalker alert!!!

Bernie can you waste time for another few days, just to give everyone else a chance, there's a good boy 😉

I work in supermarket development and see this kind of resistance frequently. More so of late.

It's a great idea in principle to increase business rates by 35%, but to many retailers the out of town option will still be preferable to developing in town/city centres. Land is more expensive in urban areas and it is very difficult to get planning approval for large developments in built up areas. What we are seeing more of now is large retailers making bigger payments under Section 106 Agreements, ie - putting something into the community, be it a library or a doctors surgery or a nursery.

We are also seeing - in the south, anyway - a big increase in mixed-use developments and regeneration projects.

What does make me laugh is when everybody moans and protests against the retailers - not many people ever seem to whinge about the guy who got the planning permission and sold them the land....

Stalker? Mint!

you don't stand a chance

Yep, that's an interesting article. I note it was written a couple of years ago, and there is thus far not a Tesco in place. Indeed Tesco withdrew their application after a year of battling with the locals....

Anyone who thinks local shops aren't in the business of making money are deluded.

So supermarkets are evil, and yet overcharging small shops employing poorly paid staff are ok.

So the same peeps who go to small shops,allowing them to make a profit the same as larger shops, dont also go to the large multiple retailers to buy a washing machine, fridge, pc, or any other large purchase.When there arre euronics shops independantly run in most small towns.

So supermarkets are evil, and yet overcharging small shops employing poorly paid staff are ok.

Most of the general public with limited funds, who avoid local shops and go to the su;permarkets for bogof,s and special offers.

But that doesn't mean that the small shops overcharge, only that the supermarkets control their costs.

Wallop, Anybody who followed the Tesco's flouting of the planning permission saga in Stockport will realise that the supermarkets can afford to throw more money at lawyers and planning consultants than the respective councils, hence they almost always get their own way, or if they dont, they just ignore the ruling and do what they want anyway...

At least in stockport the planning inspectorate bit back and enforced the ruling about Tescos not being able to trade in the excess space they built over & above their permitted floorspace. 😛

Really, they don't [i]always[/i] get there own way. Trust me.

Don't get me wrong - I share the same views as most people here, but I sometimes think people are too quick to tar all the supermarkets with the same Tesco brush.

as a former employee of a hated supermarket chain i was always struck by those who always shouted down the development and screeamed they' d always shop at freds greengrocers were always first in the queue on opening day and the next...

Someone mentioned one-stop and budgen, well one-stop is owned by Tesco and Budgens the londis brand currently owns them,

As for cleaners in stores, most of it is contracted out now, eastern european workers mostly as us brits don't want to clean floors and mop up spillages, as for the more staff for 24hr stores think again, after 10pm in most of these 24hr shops its now self serve checkouts only.

Everyone sayes that big supermarkets don't give back to the community, ive worked in 2 brand new builds in the birmingham area, one store when built the company had to pay for the new road, pavements, highstreet road and repaved, a monument and a park. The other store i moved to included in the build was the store, carpark, 6 landscaped football pitches fenced in, plus state of the are changing rooms, again a new road junction. Im watching a new one go up and they have had to pay for flats to be built, plus the lease hold on a block of flats existing, the store, a small indoor market, office block, and a massive outdoor park to redone, plus a multi-million pound road. Stores pay about £10m for the build and then the councils take another £10m plus in extra's, the community gets a good deal out of these builds,

Marple is about as much a village as Reddish

these self check outs make it very easy to steal, so why not make things even better value..and strike a blow against the finances of the supermarkets at the same time

.

Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.

WTF is that supposed to mean? Methinks you can't even begin to substantiate that statement.

Yep, that's an interesting article. I note it was written a couple of years ago, and there is thus far not a Tesco in place. Indeed Tesco withdrew their application after a year of battling with the locals....

thats good to hear, I was really just referencing the experiences of Norfolk County Council.

If people don't buy more stuff, how is the supermarket selling more stuff?

I fail to understand how the concept that supermarkets don't create more jobs, including when they are open 24 hours, is so hard for some people to get their heads round.

If a Tesco decides to open 24 hours they might well "sell" more than their competitors, but people aren't "buying" more. Someone who normally buys say 4 bog rolls a week, isn't suddenly going think, "ah, Tesco is now open 24 hours, which means I can increase my weekly supply of bog rolls to 6".

People buy what they need to buy in terms perishable goods. It doesn't matter whether it's in local shops or in out of town supermarkets, or whether the supermarket is open 14 hours or 24 hours.

And as previously stated, supermarkets use considerable less staff in relation to the volume of goods processed and sold than small local shops. That is the entire basis of the supermarket business model and how they manage to make vast profits despite selling much cheaper. As can be exemplified by the founder of Tesco Jack Cohen's credo, "stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap".

There's lots of good arguments in favour of supermarkets, but "they create jobs" isn't one of them. Supermarkets destroy jobs through increased efficiency.

spacemonkey - Member

Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.

WTF is that supposed to mean? Methinks you can't even begin to substantiate that statement.

Posted 9 hours ago # Report-Post

Certain types of people eg ones who think theyre special and have special needs that most have,like to think and are able to afford the higher prices of the local shops, and then broadcast the fact to any idiot who actually cares where they shop, that they shop local, and pay over the ods to keep a local shop in a profit as opposed to a supermarket that has cheaper prices and better stock levels, as well as usually being open latter.

EG local Netto, tomatoes, 25p a tin, local shop, 1.10 a tin, same tin, can of coke 25p supermarket, local shop 70p.

If a Tesco decides to open 24 hours they might well "sell" more than their competitors, but people aren't "buying" more. Someone who normally buys say 4 bog rolls a week, isn't suddenly going think, "ah, Tesco is now open 24 hours, which means I can increase my weekly supply of bog rolls to 6".

People buy what they need to buy in terms perishable goods. It doesn't matter whether it's in local shops or in out of town supermarkets, or whether the supermarket is open 14 hours or 24 hours.

I think this is a bit of a simplistic view TBH. If the opportunity to buy something else, other than eat what you already planned and bought arises then some folk are going to take it. I suspect that the increase in the amount of food thrown away is also related to the increased opportunities to buy more. Opening 24/7 is part of that.

There's lots of good arguments in favour of supermarkets, but "they create jobs" isn't one of them. Supermarkets destroy jobs through increased efficiency.

True - which is usually (in part) passed on to the customer in the shape of lower prices.

The theory that they will hike the prices once the small shop competition has been forced our of business has yet to be proven - I think.

What does make me laugh is when everybody moans and protests against the retailers - not many people ever seem to whinge about the guy who got the planning permission and sold them the land....

Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?

Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?

Yes, my mother is good friends with a farmer called "tesco pete". He new exactly who he was selling his land to and what is was going to be used for. Needless to say he's a bit loaded now.

I suspect that the increase in the amount of food thrown away is also related to the increased opportunities to buy more. Opening 24/7 is part of that.

Eh ? 😕

Are you really saying that some people buy less food because a shop might shut at say 10pm, whereas if the shop was open 24 hours they would pop down at 3am and buy some food, which they will later throw away ?

So food purchase is based on how many hours a shop is opened ? Is this reflected by increased obesity when shops extend their opening hours ? And have you actually got some established research to back up your claims - or is this something which you've decided for yourself ?

I have seen no evidence that the quantity of food, cleaning products, coffee, catfood, etc, people purchase, is based on whether shops are open 24 hours or not.

I think this is a bit of a simplistic view TBH.

I think my view is a tad more realistic and true to life than yours TBH.

It all makes sense now. I realise that local shops are in the business of adding value to my shopping experience. I love the experience of buying a tin of beans for 96p at my local shop while being served by some surly old miser, but hate getting the same tin for 56p in Tesco, being served my a lovely, polite student who is not there to rip me off.