[Closed] March against a big supermarket being built in Marple...

[url= http://www.monbiot.com/2009/08/10/tesco-opted/ ]you don't stand a chance[/url]

MBAs are w4nk, but I am AWESOME. 😉

Can I just check Jane, is your household's admiral stance against the giant corporates and support of the small locals a recent occurence or has it long been your [i]joint[/i] position?

Whaddya think?

I thinking supermarkets don't create jobs by being opened 24 hours, which was the suggestion.

People don't by more stuff, they just buy it at different times. Sure, the individual supermarket might sell more stuff, but no extra jobs have been created. In fact I believe that much of the thinking behind a large supermarket being opened all night is that they are stacking shelves anyway, so they might as well serve some customers at the same time. And if Tesco for example find that 10% of their customers want to shop at a 2 o'clock in the morning for some bizarre reason, then they can reduce their staff by 10% during they day. No "extra" jobs are ever created by supermarkets.

Right, I'm getting a serious bollocking for wasting time, so I'll leave it at that.

People don't by more stuff, they just buy it at different times. Sure, the individual supermarket might sell more stuff, but no extra jobs have been created

Right, I'm getting a serious bollocking for wasting time, so I'll leave it at that.

First time for everything.

Can I just check Jane, is your household's admiral stance against the giant corporates and support of the small locals a recent occurence or has it long been your joint position?

Call me a nimby if you like, people of STW (however I'm not really near the part of Marple where this proposed site is) and I do shop in the local supermarket (co-op and Sainsbury's in the Grove), but I believe when a giant supermarket comes into a small place, the village suffers. Although supermarkets will always argue that they bring custom in. Which is rubbish, as no one will leave a supermarket, leave the free carpark, then drive nearer the village park their car up again and pay 30p then go around all the local shops.

I'm not sure I'd call Marple a village

I was going to say, I'm confused because I've seen you and your husband in Sainsbury's Hazel Grove on three occasions and your husband in the Co-op in Marple twice with food produce in the basket.
I have to be honest, I was previously aware of this public stance that you both have and I wondered how it fits in with buying food produce from two major supermarkets.
I'm [b]really[/b] confused now though.
Marple is about as much a village as Reddish 🙂

Stalker alert!!!

Bernie can you waste time for another few days, just to give everyone else a chance, there's a good boy 😉

I work in supermarket development and see this kind of resistance frequently. More so of late.

It's a great idea in principle to increase business rates by 35%, but to many retailers the out of town option will still be preferable to developing in town/city centres. Land is more expensive in urban areas and it is very difficult to get planning approval for large developments in built up areas. What we are seeing more of now is large retailers making bigger payments under Section 106 Agreements, ie - putting something into the community, be it a library or a doctors surgery or a nursery.

We are also seeing - in the south, anyway - a big increase in mixed-use developments and regeneration projects.

What does make me laugh is when everybody moans and protests against the retailers - not many people ever seem to whinge about the guy who got the planning permission and sold them the land....

Stalker? Mint!

you don't stand a chance

Yep, that's an interesting article. I note it was written a couple of years ago, and there is thus far not a Tesco in place. Indeed Tesco withdrew their application after a year of battling with the locals....

Anyone who thinks local shops aren't in the business of making money are deluded.

So supermarkets are evil, and yet overcharging small shops employing poorly paid staff are ok.

So the same peeps who go to small shops,allowing them to make a profit the same as larger shops, dont also go to the large multiple retailers to buy a washing machine, fridge, pc, or any other large purchase.When there arre euronics shops independantly run in most small towns.

So supermarkets are evil, and yet overcharging small shops employing poorly paid staff are ok.

Most of the general public with limited funds, who avoid local shops and go to the su;permarkets for bogof,s and special offers.

But that doesn't mean that the small shops overcharge, only that the supermarkets control their costs.

Wallop, Anybody who followed the Tesco's flouting of the planning permission saga in Stockport will realise that the supermarkets can afford to throw more money at lawyers and planning consultants than the respective councils, hence they almost always get their own way, or if they dont, they just ignore the ruling and do what they want anyway...

At least in stockport the planning inspectorate bit back and enforced the ruling about Tescos not being able to trade in the excess space they built over & above their permitted floorspace. 😛

Really, they don't [i]always[/i] get there own way. Trust me.

Don't get me wrong - I share the same views as most people here, but I sometimes think people are too quick to tar all the supermarkets with the same Tesco brush.

as a former employee of a hated supermarket chain i was always struck by those who always shouted down the development and screeamed they' d always shop at freds greengrocers were always first in the queue on opening day and the next...

Someone mentioned one-stop and budgen, well one-stop is owned by Tesco and Budgens the londis brand currently owns them,

As for cleaners in stores, most of it is contracted out now, eastern european workers mostly as us brits don't want to clean floors and mop up spillages, as for the more staff for 24hr stores think again, after 10pm in most of these 24hr shops its now self serve checkouts only.

Everyone sayes that big supermarkets don't give back to the community, ive worked in 2 brand new builds in the birmingham area, one store when built the company had to pay for the new road, pavements, highstreet road and repaved, a monument and a park. The other store i moved to included in the build was the store, carpark, 6 landscaped football pitches fenced in, plus state of the are changing rooms, again a new road junction. Im watching a new one go up and they have had to pay for flats to be built, plus the lease hold on a block of flats existing, the store, a small indoor market, office block, and a massive outdoor park to redone, plus a multi-million pound road. Stores pay about £10m for the build and then the councils take another £10m plus in extra's, the community gets a good deal out of these builds,

Marple is about as much a village as Reddish

these self check outs make it very easy to steal, so why not make things even better value..and strike a blow against the finances of the supermarkets at the same time

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Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.

WTF is that supposed to mean? Methinks you can't even begin to substantiate that statement.

Yep, that's an interesting article. I note it was written a couple of years ago, and there is thus far not a Tesco in place. Indeed Tesco withdrew their application after a year of battling with the locals....

thats good to hear, I was really just referencing the experiences of Norfolk County Council.

If people don't buy more stuff, how is the supermarket selling more stuff?

I fail to understand how the concept that supermarkets don't create more jobs, including when they are open 24 hours, is so hard for some people to get their heads round.

If a Tesco decides to open 24 hours they might well "sell" more than their competitors, but people aren't "buying" more. Someone who normally buys say 4 bog rolls a week, isn't suddenly going think, "ah, Tesco is now open 24 hours, which means I can increase my weekly supply of bog rolls to 6".

People buy what they need to buy in terms perishable goods. It doesn't matter whether it's in local shops or in out of town supermarkets, or whether the supermarket is open 14 hours or 24 hours.

And as previously stated, supermarkets use considerable less staff in relation to the volume of goods processed and sold than small local shops. That is the entire basis of the supermarket business model and how they manage to make vast profits despite selling much cheaper. As can be exemplified by the founder of Tesco Jack Cohen's credo, "stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap".

There's lots of good arguments in favour of supermarkets, but "they create jobs" isn't one of them. Supermarkets destroy jobs through increased efficiency.

spacemonkey - Member

Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.

WTF is that supposed to mean? Methinks you can't even begin to substantiate that statement.

Posted 9 hours ago # Report-Post

Certain types of people eg ones who think theyre special and have special needs that most have,like to think and are able to afford the higher prices of the local shops, and then broadcast the fact to any idiot who actually cares where they shop, that they shop local, and pay over the ods to keep a local shop in a profit as opposed to a supermarket that has cheaper prices and better stock levels, as well as usually being open latter.

EG local Netto, tomatoes, 25p a tin, local shop, 1.10 a tin, same tin, can of coke 25p supermarket, local shop 70p.

If a Tesco decides to open 24 hours they might well "sell" more than their competitors, but people aren't "buying" more. Someone who normally buys say 4 bog rolls a week, isn't suddenly going think, "ah, Tesco is now open 24 hours, which means I can increase my weekly supply of bog rolls to 6".

People buy what they need to buy in terms perishable goods. It doesn't matter whether it's in local shops or in out of town supermarkets, or whether the supermarket is open 14 hours or 24 hours.

I think this is a bit of a simplistic view TBH. If the opportunity to buy something else, other than eat what you already planned and bought arises then some folk are going to take it. I suspect that the increase in the amount of food thrown away is also related to the increased opportunities to buy more. Opening 24/7 is part of that.

There's lots of good arguments in favour of supermarkets, but "they create jobs" isn't one of them. Supermarkets destroy jobs through increased efficiency.

True - which is usually (in part) passed on to the customer in the shape of lower prices.

The theory that they will hike the prices once the small shop competition has been forced our of business has yet to be proven - I think.

What does make me laugh is when everybody moans and protests against the retailers - not many people ever seem to whinge about the guy who got the planning permission and sold them the land....

Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?

Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?

Yes, my mother is good friends with a farmer called "tesco pete". He new exactly who he was selling his land to and what is was going to be used for. Needless to say he's a bit loaded now.

I suspect that the increase in the amount of food thrown away is also related to the increased opportunities to buy more. Opening 24/7 is part of that.

Eh ? 😕

Are you really saying that some people buy less food because a shop might shut at say 10pm, whereas if the shop was open 24 hours they would pop down at 3am and buy some food, which they will later throw away ?

So food purchase is based on how many hours a shop is opened ? Is this reflected by increased obesity when shops extend their opening hours ? And have you actually got some established research to back up your claims - or is this something which you've decided for yourself ?

I have seen no evidence that the quantity of food, cleaning products, coffee, catfood, etc, people purchase, is based on whether shops are open 24 hours or not.

I think this is a bit of a simplistic view TBH.

I think my view is a tad more realistic and true to life than yours TBH.

It all makes sense now. I realise that local shops are in the business of adding value to my shopping experience. I love the experience of buying a tin of beans for 96p at my local shop while being served by some surly old miser, but hate getting the same tin for 56p in Tesco, being served my a lovely, polite student who is not there to rip me off.

Are you really saying that some people buy less food because a shop might shut at say 10pm, whereas if the shop was open 24 hours they would pop down at 3am and buy some food, which they will later throw away ?

No, that is not what I am saying or what I typed. I'm saying folk might buy more because the opportunity is there because the SM is open all night. And because they have that opportunity some of the food they previously bought may become spoiled and have to be thrown away.

Have you never looked in the fridge / cupboard and thought I don't fancy any of that, I'll nip down the shop for something I do fancy?

I have seen no evidence that the quantity of food, cleaning products, coffee, catfood, etc, people purchase, is based on whether shops are open 24 hours or not.

Neither have I, but SMs wouldn't stay open longer if it didn't make good business sense.

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Gary glitter plus 1, and they give you clubcard points as well.

Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?

It depends. There are a number of possible scenarios:

1. The retailer, let's use Tesco as an example, buys your land. Even they have their own development arm - Spenhill Ltd - but it wouldn't be difficult for you to find out that it was Tesco.

2. A developer buys the land speculatively, knowing they can get planning approval for a retail unit, but with no firm tenant or eventual buyer. This would be the most difficult scenario in which to predict the eventual tenant, especially if it's a one off development company.

3. A developer buys the land already having an agreement with a retailer in place. Some developers do much of the same work with the same retailer. A little bit of googling can tell you a lot in this instance.

ah spenhill.. named from when tesco bought hillards in the 80's. these developers etc usually pay well over the odds for opportunities. my family's business had agreed to buy a business lock stock employees the lot for 3.5m and keep it as a going concern. on behalf of tesco someone turned up offered almost 3 times that for the land alone.. job done.

There are a number of possible scenarios:

[url= http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23383157-tesco-accused-of-dirty-tricks-email.do ]Or 4. They use a trojan horse[/url]

An elderly man and woman were having a full-on argument about this outside the tea room at Roman Lakes this afternoon 🙂

I bought another carton of orange juice just so I could spectate for longer.

SMs wouldn't stay open longer if it didn't make good business sense.

Well of course they stay longer because it makes good business sense. But how does that equate into automatically assuming that they have "created" more jobs ?

Supermarkets are non-labour intensive retail outlets - that is central to the whole philosophy behind them. And until today at least, I thought everyone understood that.

Have you never looked in the fridge / cupboard and thought I don't fancy any of that, I'll nip down the shop for something I do fancy?

What, the local shop ?

I've certainly never thought at 3 in the morning, "I think I'll nip down to Tesco and do a load of shopping which I don't really need".

I distinctly remember when my Tesco went 24 hours, and no I didn't suddenly start buying more stuff, I carried buying exactly the same amount of sugar, catfood, bog paper, etc.

Of course people "buy more" when facilities are open at different hours!

The perfect example of course, being the Kebab shop - if it wasn't open, you'd stagger home from the pub, think about cooking some food but instead just fall asleep on the sofa - however with the kebab shop there, offering a world of meaty goodness - you naturally get the urge buy a kebab, its called impulse, and it works.

Do you see many kebab shops open 9am-5pm round your way Ernie?

Next thing you'll be telling us that supermarkets don't need to put chocolate bars near the checkout, because if you wanted to buy a chocolate bar, you'd go to the chocolate aisle and get one... 🙄

Well of course they stay longer because it makes good business sense. But how does that equate into automatically assuming that they have "created" more jobs ?

I'm not arguing the jobs creation line.

Supermarkets are non-labour intensive retail outlets - that is central to the whole philosophy behind them. And until today at least, I thought everyone understood that.

As, I said, I'm not arguing the jobs creation line. Why do you think I am?

I've certainly never thought at 3 in the morning, "I think I'll nip down to Tesco and do a load of shopping which I don't really need".

Doesn't need to be [i] a load of shopping [/i]. Could just be a couple of things - which may replace stuff already bought.