[Closed] Man Utd...

[rumour]

Falcao has failed his medical.

[/rumour]

One assumes the Welbeck thing was done while Wenger was either asleep or having an audience with the Pope.

He's going to get a fright when he gets the morning copy of Gazetta with his espresso isn't he?

Why do sky keep subjecting their reporters to the t**ts outside the ground in deadline day?

The dildo one was pretty funny. That doll looks quite funny too. There's a video on youtube of the lead singer of my band outside Stoke's ground from a couple of years back holding up a sign that says "James Parton cased my Mrs".....still makes me chuckle!

Wellbeck seems a very good buy for £16m and Arsenal need a replacement for Giroud. I would have been happy to see him at Spurs.

I just don't get Man U at all, they have done little to address their frailties.

+1 on Moyes who lost the management confidence or perhaps he never had it. I could have another cheeky wager on ManU having less points at Christmas under Van Gall than they did under Moyes. Fergusson sold Moyes a pup too on Rooney, he recognised he was way past his best and should have sold him on. He left Moyes in an impossible position. Rooney is paid too much today never mind the fact he'll be drawing those ridiculous wages years from now.

I could have another cheeky wager on ManU having less points at Christmas under Van Gall

You could well be right. But its not really the point.

You can look at the players he's brought in, who's gone, and it looks like theres a plan. A long term strategy. Albeit one thats clearly not working at the moment, with this formation. He's looking to build a squad to play a certain way.

Moyes was just flailing. Clearly miles out of his depth. 27 million for a panic buy of Fellaini as your only buy? A contract for Rooney that valued him up there with Messi? (when in reality, Torres would be a better comparison) A 5 new year contract for Nani? He looked like a rabbit in the headlights by the end. Clearly overwhelmed by the job. LVG does't look like he'd be overwhelmed by anything. And it looks like he'll be as ruthless as Fergie. If you don't fit, or you're not performing, you're gone

Binners,

Don't you think yesterday showed almost as much panic buying as Moyes time ? A loan for a striker when you have RVP, Rooney, Hernandez and Wellbeck ? Then letting 2 of them leave also.

Once you then add Mata into the equation you're really looking at a completely unbalanced team wouldn't you say now ?

Can't remember who the manager was that said it, but the comments was basically "You bring players in if the players you are bringing in are better than the ones you already have"

If Man Utd have the money (they do) then i don't think anyone can dispute that Falcao >>> Hernandez and Welbeck - especially as they have him on tick for now, and will more than likely make it permanent in the summer. So it's good business for me. As was said yesterday, when a player of his quality comes available, and is willing to join you, it's not very easy to turn him down.

The issue remains that it's not in attack that their issue lies - despite their current scoring record, I don't think anyone really sees that as being anything other than a blip (although they do also need creativity). Defensive solidity is what they need, unless LvG seriously plans to win every game 6-5.

Just Like City bought the league, UTD are throwing their money around and buying 5th place. Not right if you ask me. Let other teams have a shot at the Europa League...

Weeksy - Rooney is not a striker though really, is he? And Hernandez and Wellbeck are not very good ones. Well Hernandez is good as a super-sub, but never delivers when he starts. Falcao is world class. As are the rest of his buys (Di Maria is quality!). I agree that we need defenders. We can't just buy a whole squad in one go. He's looking at it long term.

His buys, and this formation, do suggest he is indeed going down the Kevin Keegan route of suicidal attacking to outscore the opposition though. We'll just have to see how that develops though the season. I suspect that its a case of seeing how long he lasts before he admits defeat, and reverts back to a more solid, traditional English set up. 3 at the back in the Premiership is suicidal, when you look at the pace of the attack of the top teams

United have bought 3 defenders as well, it’s not all out attack!

I think they are missing Carrick at the moment, IMHO he’s been Uniteds best player for the last 2-3 seasons. He just sits in front of the back line does the simple things and makes them tick. It was the same last season when he was out United leaked goals and lacked any fluidity going forward.

Albeit one thats clearly not working at the moment, with this formation. He's looking to build a squad to play a certain way.

I do think Moyes was out of his depth, not so much in terms of the level of football required (they did relatively well in the CL) but in terms of the pressure. The rumour I heard was that Manu U could cut him with limited compensation if he finished outside the top 4 and I think that haunted him as the season went on. He was fired as soon as top 4 wasn't possible.

United have bought 3 defenders as well, it’s not all out attack!

True. But defending is a team game within a team game, so it takes time to gel, both with each other and within the system the manager decides he wants to adopt, before the defensive team really become instinctive with each other. I don't doubt that LvG can make it work, nothing in his record suggests he's going to do anything but make it work. In the meantime, they're going to have to endure some tough times and just hope the firepower at the other end sees them through.

Their next 5 games aren't (on paper) the most taxing - QPR, Leicester and WHU. Then Everton which is potentially tougher, and West Brom. And then Chelsea followed by Man City. He's got best part of 2 months to get it working, before the real test comes.

Agreed, and the injuries clearly aren’t helping either; it was the same last year if I remember correctly, loads of injuries just after pre-season.

Letting Vidic and Rio and Evra leave at the same time was always going to be a big upset. I know they didn’t play much together last season but having that much experience on the training pitch must have helped the younger players (although Evans and Smalling aren’t exactly youngsters any more).

£23 million for one player on loan for 1 year is not good business however good the player. No Europe and the highest spenders in the summer transfer window means no excuses.

How long will "believe in my philosophy" and "it's a long term project" hold any water?

How long will "believe in my philosophy" and "it's a long term project" hold any water?

That's the problem with football currently really. The answer seems to be 3 months... but should be a minimum of 12.

At Liverpool we're lucky that Rodgers seems to have hit the nail on the head quickly... but with Rodgers it's more than that, it's his passion, pride and desire to want to be LFC manager, this meant that even though he had a poor start results wise, the fans were (mostly) happy, he showed in his words that he had already fallen for the club, the fans and the history... so we stayed patient (unlike with Hodgson).

I'm not sure LVG is quite endearing himself to the Utd fans in quite the same way, which may ultimately prove his downfall.

However, they'd be foolish to do so, he's proven time and time again how good a manager he is...

LVG never starts well, wherever he goes. His early record at Bayern was a disaster. They looked like getting relegated. He turned that around pretty spectacularly. The next season they won the Bundesliga

I don't think he cares much about endearing himself to anyone, really. He's an arrogant sod! But then he does like winning stuff. And he's a bit good at it. For that reason, he'll get a bit of time I think. Lets be honest, he took over with everyone recognising that an awful lot of work needs doing

Rodgers had a lot of doubters during his first season and finished outside the top four. However it was obvious he had a good strategy and LFC had the foresight and patience to let him continue his work. I think Moyes wasn't given a fair amount of time and that LvG will need at least 18 months to be successful (ish). Will he get that time when the shareholders start stamping their feet particularly if he doesn't get CL football again? I doubt it.

I don't think fergie was a particularly endearing character, either early on or even once he got his feet under the table. But you become a lot more endearing when you can't get the front door open because of all the trophies stacked up behind it. That'll be what measures LvG in the end, not how well he handles himself at supporters club get-togethers.

I think the difference was that Rodgers came and it was immediately obvious that the way he wanted to play was either going to be successful or at the very least entertaining. And that's important for managers who need to overhaul squads because it buys them time with the supporters. Currently I don't think LVG has convinced anyone that the kind of football he wants to play is right for the PL.

We Liverpool fans are also notoriously supportive of anyone who buys into the history of the club and says all the right things about how 'big' and 'great' the club still is. And Rodgers did all that straight away so was always going to be given the time! I

Its a shame we can't tag this thread onto the one below, as it's a great historical account of a football Club's trials and tribulations! 🙂

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lets-talk-about-man-utd

At this rate it could last for years!

Its slightly depressing to see that my doom-laden predictions came true 😥

Wasn't around for yesterdays fun and games, but was pleased to get Welbeck, who Ive always thought of as a decent player. £20m to sign Falcao for a year is all wrong IMHO....what does he need to do to justify that?

And there was me thinking RVP at £1m a month for 2yrs was expensive business.

You did say this though Binners! 😳

[i]No matter who is the manager, nobody will be getting anywhere near £100 million to play with.

To see how bad the situation actually is at OT financially, you only need to know one thing. One of the first things Moyes did was to give Nani a new 5 year contract. I think some of knew the writing was on the wall regarding our seasons ambitions, and our place in the world, at that point[/i]

We Liverpool fans are also notoriously supportive of anyone who [s]buys into the history of the club and says all the right things about how 'big' and 'great' the club still is[/s] blows smoke up their arses.

Really one of the most cringeworthy things in football currently is listening to Rogers deliver his badly scripted obvious pr lines. I find it hard to believe anyone actually buys into that, some people are just gullible to the extreme.

Wasn't that what weeksy was saying anyway ❓ 💡

(Apart from it being the most cringeworthy thing ever in football this week.)

My 2 cents on Rodgers and LVG

Rodgers got a lot of respect for the way Swansea played especially after getting promoted when they could possibly have become withdrawn. I am sure the Liverpool fans where very excited to think that he would get their team with the better players playing the same way or better. He also comes across as very passionate about football in the broadest sense not just getting results.

LVG, he is Dutch and 60+ so combine those two things and he's going to come across as very direct, blunt even.

The thing is Rockape.... they've left the spending until its absolute blind panic, as the prices charged reflect. Who wants to sign him? United? Ker-****ing-ching! Bang another 15 million on!

Because Fergie massively overachieved for so many years, the Glazers thought their mortgaged-to-the-hilt Golden Goose would keep laying. Last season proved they didn't have a clue what to do if it stopped. With concentrating on stock market flotations in Singapore, and sponsorship deals for yoghurt in Japan, or whatever this weeks wheeze is, they didn't pay much attention to what was going on on the pitch. Now they've realised that to maintain their precious brand they need to keep winning. And without the greatest manager in English footballing history to paper over the cracks, you can't do that on the cheap.

So now they're reacting the only way they know how. By desperately shovelling money at it. Will it work? Who knows. But at least the money paid for Di Maria etc at least isn't money being funnelled to the Glazers grasping parasitic hands in 'consultancy fees' or used to prop up American hopping Malls. And its being spent on what it should have been being spent on since those leeches took over. I'd rather have 20 million go to Fallcoas 'third party owners' than to the hedge funds and private equity firms the Glazers are paying obscene rates of interest too

Though obviously thats a double edged sword as it means the club sinks further into the inevitable financial shitstorm . Its depressing! 😥

MSP it's about respect. Something you obviously know nothing about.

Along with football of course 🙂

Jorge Mendes according to the Guardian has been befriending Ed Woodward, hence, Di Maria and Falcao, going there. Bet he was laughing all the way to the bank. Pretty much any time Woodward has been involved he has either lost the player of interest or paid way over the odds. Long may it continue 😉

2 questions remain what is the current PL stance on players owned by 3rd parties? and what is going on at Monaco?

Whole world of football is ****ed when plenty of useless players are happy to sit in the reserves and take home their £50k plus salaries.

[i]2 questions remain what is the current PL stance on players owned by 3rd parties?[/i]

Do you mean the players out on loan?

Apparently Chelski have now loaned out 26 players! Thats 26!!!!

More than most club's whole squads. The issue here is that apart from developing their players at the highest level without having to play or pay them, they strengthen those teams, so their competitors will find it harder to get points from them. Of course these players can't play against Chelski, so they don't have that problem.

Its all wrong!

Apparently Chelski have now loaned out 26 players! Thats 26!!!!

[img] [/img]

2 questions remain what is the current PL stance on players owned by 3rd parties?

Do you mean the players out on loan?

I think he means the whole dodgy business (started with Tevez) of the player being 'owned' (not with Bomber), by a group of investors, or a hedge fund or something, and he is essentially licensed to play for the club per season, with the 'investors' sharing the fees with the agent.

This is the deal with Falcao. It was the same with Tevez. Its dodgy as ****!!!

A quick google dug [url= http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2013/12/19/4489797/the-falcao-factor-how-third-parties-gatecrash-footballs-transfer- ]this [/url] out about his last 'transfer'

@binners, indeed the more you look at the football transfer business the dirtier it gets. In some respects you can understand why Blatter wants his share of the substantial pie too, why not if everyone else is at it. Agents fees are astronomical. Players get a percentage of their transfer fee. Managers get a cut of sell on profits. All of this on sums in the 10's millions

FWIW I thought the third party ownership thing had been outlawed, certainly in the PL.

@jamie that's a stunner !

That's Man U knackered.

[img] [/img]

Weeksy - Rooney is not a striker though really, is he? And Hernandez and Wellbeck are not very good ones. Well Hernandez is good as a super-sub, but never delivers when he starts. Falcao [s]is[/s] was world class.

He's been out injured for 6 months - who knows how good he is now? 20 odd million to loan a player who's not played for half the last season? Hmmm......

Also, are we going to see Man U fans in outcry over Rojo's pending assault charges BTW? I thought they weren't too keen on unsavoury south americans playing over here.

Really one of the most cringeworthy things in football currently is listening to Rogers deliver his badly scripted obvious pr lines. I find it hard to believe anyone actually buys into that, some people are just gullible to the extreme.

Was going to describe it as that but decided against it. You have to hand it to him though he certainly has got his target audience absolutely sussed. We Liverpool fans do love people who integrate themselves into the club and everything it believes in as Rodgers has.

Back to Man U, to be honest I believe that unless they get back in CL they could ed up In the same quandary we found ourselves the past few seasons, struggling to attract big names but believing that who they are and what they were will mean people will want to sign for them. They won't. How many signings did we lose out to to London clubs these past few years? The sad fact is that the NW of England doesn't hold the appeals of the likes of London and the other big European cities. And without sustained CL participation or huge wages , you're always going to struggle to attract the best players. You either have to build from the bottom with clever signings or you take a gamble and offer the massive wages on the assumption you can afford it in a season when you're back in the CL.

Just my tuppence worth

Who are the mugs that fund all these shenanigans? Oh, sh1t, it's us........and folk moan about bankers 😉

FWIW I thought the third party ownership thing had been outlawed, certainly in the PL.

So did I. But they got around it with Tevez. And they've got around it with Falcoa. Who'd have thunk it eh? A hedge fund managing to find a clever way to circumvent the regulations to make a bucketload of cash for themselves?

Who are the mugs that fund all these shenanigans? Oh, sh1t, it's us........and folk moan about bankers

Oh bore the **** off. Come back when you've got something new to say, there's a good lad.

Rooney was Fergies big faux pas. the first player ever to f fergie about, and not be sold, a la stam and keane. He's nowhere near the player he's made out to be, still living on past glories.

There's United's (and England's) problem, right there.
A thoroughly objectionable fellow in my regard.
How is he seen in the dressing room? Is he liked? Respected? Does he have a winning line in Scouse banter, or do the other players do the shake'n'vac every time he leaves the room?

Looks like Danny Welbeck is going to fit in perfectly...

[img] [/img]

Who's tipped your cart DD!?!

If you want to fund all this bllx, at least be upfront about it. It's a free country after all - including "of speech".

Try getting hold of a footballers contract and see all the hidden extras and bonuses - win, lose of draw. And then take their kissing the club badge with a pinch of salt. At least they are smiling while fleecing Joe Public and more fun being in the Kop than a branch of barclays

Yep Binners that's what I meant wiht 3rd parties. I don't understand at the moment how Man U have got around it. Possibly as it's a loan and therefore officially not on United's books.

This is good:
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/football/shortcuts/2014/sep/02/jorge-mendes-football-agent-transfer-deadline-day-di-maria-man-utd-costa-chelsea ]Jorge Mendes agent[/url]

Dodgy? Look at his track record with the Bebe transfer to United. Plus how the hell did they sell him on for £2.4M this summer?

If Man U have got falcao through 3rd party ownership then i hope they get all they deserve and the club suffers the biggest crash seen in football. They were involved in the tevez saga, through paying only 2m to west ham and who knows how much to Kia J. If the premier league are too gutless to do anything about it, then i hope the other premier league clubs uncover the dirt. I'm a sheffield united fan so the tevez / 3rd party thing obviously hits a nerve.

Scenes 8)

[img] [/img]

Barcelona?????

Welbeck & Cleverley get a rough ride, they are both good solid footballers who should do reasonably well at Villa & Arsenal.

As for Man Utd & their mega money signings, No point waiting until its too late to spend the money, unless of course it is already too late 🙂

One thing is for sure, no excuses for LVG now, he has been backed big time!

Welbeck and Cleverly did well this w/e from utd view and they scraped a win against QPR I see. Interesting times.

Scraped a win? Hmmmmmm

The result was good (read: a welcome relief. Its only QPR, after all). But it was the manner in which they went about it. They looked like a United side are meant to look. Pacey, attacking football, who look dangerous whenever they go forward. Di Maria was awesome! We're still going to have problems at the back against the top sides, but it bodes well.

And Liverpool lost at home, and were as dull, lethargic and uninspiring as we've looked all season. Not a bad weekend really

Still can't really see anyone challenging Chelski. At least there was this to raise a smile about though 😀

[img] [/img]

I was being deing pointedly understated binners, just noting how the utd haters aren't singing much this weekend. It could be a classic season if city, liverpool etc keep tripping up. Chelsea looking ominous though. Di Maria, though expensive, should (dare I utter the words) fill the Giggsy hole. All the press guff about Mata left out in the cold raised a smile.

Sorry boxelder - its a Monday morning. I've not got my irony sensors up to speed yet 😉

Yeah... the scousers I work with, who've been gleefully crowing on a Monday morning are notably reluctant to discuss the football, for some reason. Paul Lambert really has got the measure of Liverpool. I suspect that a lot of sides going to Anfield will set themselves up exactly the same. They really did blow their only chance last season. Back to 6th or 7th for them this time. Where they belong 😀

A draw for Arsenal/City is a result too! Robby Savage summed it up yesterday. He said when you're visiting old Trafford in the past, you'd look at the team sheet and think 'oh shit!', and you're beaten before you get there. Thats just not been the case for a while. Its looking like the fear factor will hopefully be making a welcome return

I think I'm developing a new man-crush (no, not steve davis)

[img] [/img]

[url= http://wall.saintsfc.co.uk/Article/783223-VIDEO-Schneiderlins-stunner-caps-41-pass-move ]Admittedly not every team can be as awful as Newcastle, but more of this please:[/url]

Ye sweary Geordie was unimpressed again I see (NSFW)
[cynic]it's amazing how fast he always gets home from matches to make these videos[/cynic]

just noting how the utd haters aren't singing much this weekend

I'm still giving Falcao a standing ovation for running up the sideline...

it was only QPR but we actually played football and did so well

Defence looks weak but only at Centre back and rojo can play there

Some pretty impressive home debuts there and lets hope it suggested to lvG that 442 is the way
We should get champions league footy with that team but need some better defenders.
RvP should be dropped before Mata and Rooney IMHO

I'm still giving Falcao a standing ovation for running up the sideline

Despite some AMAZING Arsenal goals this weekend, as usual....*Coughs*...I think this was my favourite from Serie A.

Zola-esque! 😯

...and here is a Falcao one from the archives:

http://www.gfycat.com/BountifulNecessaryAcornbarnacle

This was possibly the best banner ever....

[img] [/img]

Though Mike Ashley will probably keep him there just to annoy the fans, and continue their dysfunctional/abusive relationship

it was only QPR but we actually played football and did so well

We weren't expecting much going up against a two hundred million pound strike force, I expected more of a fight, but we simply rolled over and died.

Harry the twitch and his negative waves again. 👿

I had big hopes for Charlie Austin this season - how's he looking? Not scoring me many points in the fantasy team, but is that him or QPR not supplying the chances? (I've not had chance to see them play yet)

Why the obsession with dropping a striker. Rotate and keep teams guessing. It could be a bit of welcome relief at times for RVP, who is the most gifted of the bunch (though I disliked him fervently in an Arsenal shirt). The pressure will lift a bit from the back 3/4/5 and they'll improve. Remember the laughter and slating Evra and Vidic got in their first few weeks? Have faith and hold firm. City and Liverpool - 'castles of cards'. Chelsea out front, Swansea and Villa to slow puncture over winter, Arsenal to improve and finish third. Spurs? - Potchathingy looking a little like Moyes last term

Though Mike Ashley will probably keep him there just to annoy the fans, and continue their dysfunctional/abusive relationship

Not a snipe at you Mike, but it's that parochial "so long as we beat Sunderland/Man U" attitude that is one limiting factor for Newcastle.

It's not, and honestly having stood there on wet nights beating teams in Europe mid week and hitting the top end of the table year in year out the only time the so long as we beat the mackems line comes out is when there is nothing else to play for.
Ashley does just enough to keep it going, he's waiting for the big money owner to arrive and pay him out. Hence selling the good players. I don't lay it all at the door of Pardew but he's not the best. Maybe it's time for some fresh ideas but they will get nowhere when the manager is not allowed in the room for the transfer talks.

that is one limiting factor for Newcastle.

I thought it was more Ashely's perfect contentment with anything other than relegation being just dandy.

I had big hopes for Charlie Austin this season - how's he looking? Not scoring me many points in the fantasy team, but is that him or QPR not supplying the chances? (I've not had chance to see them play yet)

He doesn't get the service in away games. While we have played two teams in Spuds and Manure who are going to be in the top six come the end of the season, two 4-0 defeats points to the tactics redknapp is employing away from home.

NUFC should be giants - support, history etc. It's a shame - would love them to be challenging.

It is, in reality just the last big club not bought by a billionaire

Seeing as Mike Ashley has made a statement saying he's definitely not selling, that surely means thats exactly what he's after doing. Will it revert back to St James's Park, or will it forever be known as the 2 Trackies for a Tenner Stadium? 😉

I think the naming rights were bought by someone who did just that. He's deflecting offers until they are performing well. He's investing avoid relegation and hoping to sell at UEFA qualified prices.

2 Trackies for a Tenner Stadium (and a fee mug)

FTFY

I'd be excited if I was a united fan, the vast amount of quality attacking talent that they have is bound to pay off, de Maria, Falcao, RVP, Mata, Herrera, even januzaj is a smashing player. Chelsea are showing that you can fit all these players into a team, and don't have to adhere to the usual claptrap about needing big strong midfielders all over the place.

Van Gaal won't be long in getting them playing how he wants.

Binners, agreed. Always love to see a Terry own goal!.

Nobeerinthefridge - bang on! The thing about the best United teams in the past is that the goals could come from anywhere. You had a whole team who of players who could bang them in on a good day. Not just relying on traditional strikers. And how do you defend against that? With great difficulty!

Thats why it was refreshing to see 4 different players scoring yesterday. The way things should be at Old Traffiord! 😀

I've just had a look at the original post in this thread

wanmankylung - Member

The thing that I find funny is that Man Utd have shorter odds for winning the title than Liverpool.

Still looking funny? 🙂

Looks knackered just for the photo shoot 8)

[img] [/img]

He is shaping up to be Arsene's Fernando Torres moment 😀

It's not looking good. Especially compared to how Sanchez has started.

Sanchez workrate on Saturday was incredible. He looked awesome. He must have covered some serious distance!!! But all it did was highlight what a bone idle **** Ozil is!