MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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I have been running I mac G5's with Adobe Creative Suite for 3.5 years in my small graphic design business.
We design mostly stuff for print, brochures, corporate magazines, direct mail pieces etc.
The G5's have been fine but it looks like it is time to upgrade to the latest Creative Suite and upgrade the macs at the same time.
Question is, do I go Mac pro or Imac with the Intel chips?
How much better will mac pros be as they are three times the price.
Any advice welcome.
iMac should be fine, Mac Pro extra grunt needed for video editing etc.
That's what I figured, we do a tiny bit of video editing which to be fair the i-macs struggled with.
It is just whenever I go to another studio I see wall to wall mac pros, so it is just mac envy on my part then 😉
3.06 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo iMac with 4GB Ram here - not struggled with anything yet!!
got a Pro here for flash and video stuff, then all rest are now imac's, to be honest imacs are great but do struggle on the bigger stuff.
all the video guys i work with reckon mac pro is only necessary if you are doing a lot of HD work
Big 2.8ghz Intel Core 2 iMac here, never had a problem with print design.
You're all missing the point of Mac ownership entirely here. Its all about snobbery. Get a 17" Macbook Pro. Why? Because it looks the nicest 🙂
if you are doing graphic design then you need a pro and a decent screen, the screens on the imacs are just not good enough for colour critical work.
saying that most graphic designers have no idea what a colourbalanced workflow is and think twiddling the sliders until it looks nice will do.
if however you have a screen calibrator in your studio (and know how to use it) and use rip software for your printing/proofing then mac pro and a decent eizo/nec/lacie monitor.
the screens on the imacs are just not good enough for colour critical work.
As a designer of some 20+ years experience, the screens are perfectly adequate unless the colour work you are doing is really, like REALLY critical.
here we go 🙄
Yikes,
I step out for five minutes and now look what has happened 😕
Once I have designed it it goes to repro and they do all that rip stuff and (very) occasionally ask me to resubmit files if they have problems, but this is very rare.
Take the point about the monitor, but as a designer the imac screen is a quantum leap forward from what I was using 10 years ago!
Take the point about the monitor, but as a designer the imac screen is a quantum leap forward from what I was using 10 years ago!
[old bloke]You should have been designing/artworking 20 years ago then - CS10 board, films, overlays, Omnicrom, Letraset, marker pens, Rotring pens, Agfa cameras. It would take two days to do what you can do in an hour now - and another two days to get the Cromalin colour proofs back from the repro house...[/old bloke]
In fact, I miss those days - it was a real skill that is now lost forever.
ooh i've got some rotring pens, lovely things they are. Maybe i'll clean them up and get them functioning again
ooh i've got some rotring pens, lovely things they are. Maybe i'll clean them up and get them functioning again
Anyone remember the 'taptaptap' you would periodically hear as someone in the studio was trying to get ink into the nib of a .17 Rotring... (followed by the 'ohh f*ck' as they accidentally hit the nib on the desk and bent it.
🙂
😆 yes, although my experience was limited to GCSE classes and a week in the drawing office of a Furnace manufacturer where we used pencil anyway
As a designer of some 20+ years experience, the screens are perfectly adequate unless the colour work you are doing is really, like REALLY critical.
Once I have designed it it goes to repro and they do all that rip stuff and (very) occasionally ask me to resubmit files if they have problems, but this is very rare.
depends if 'just good enough' and 'it will be fine' are the standard you work at.
being able to soft proof at the studio and know exactly what the final print is going to look like because you have the output profile and know the stock, plus a screen that's calibrated isn't that hard to do or expensive.
the next step is to supply the seperations, the designers i know who do this charge extra and if you can be bothered to learn how it's worth doing financially as it pays for the fancy screen and rip software.
depends if 'just good enough' and 'it will be fine' are the standard you work at.
No - what I am saying is that the colour calibration on an iMac is more than adequate for the vast majority of work (IMO). I never work to 'just good enough' yet I find the colour standard to be fine. Of course you clearly feel differently and all well and good - as long as what you do works for you, but I find I am experienced enough to be able to anticipate final printed results from what I see on screen.
And I see you are a photographer - I can appreciate why you would want to be sat in a dark room with a colour-corrected Lacie repro monitor.
the next step is to supply the seperations,
By the way - when was the last time you were supplied with separations???? Are you talking physical film seps here?????
Mr.S. good point, what you describe is one way to do it.
The world of press ready pdf's has probably made us a bit lazy, but as Mastiles said we all work much faster now and for us it is about getting the best quality job through, as quickly as possible at a competitive price.
I still use pens and coloured pencils for the initial layout though 😉
the screen on the 24" iMac is very good (glossy issues aside!) - the smaller one is, apparently, not so good.
I've just bought a 15" MacBook Pro (2 actually) - fantastic!.. but makes you realise that the iMac is pro really.
CS3 all runs very nicely - and apple are finally sticking a decent amount of RAM in everything now.
the 17" macbook with higher res matt screen is very nice - amazing screen on that.
And as for colour calibration, my proofs look great - and so does the print thanks!
By the way - when was the last time you were supplied with separations???? Are you talking physical film seps here?????
i'm a photographer who sometimes works with people who know exactly what is going on and sometimes works with people who pass everything on down the line as "they will sort it out if it doesn't look right"
you can guess the type i prefer to work with.
some designers supply the seperations (i guess it's just a file not a physical thing) because they know the profile (dot gain ink limit etc) and the stock it's going to be printed on. they have a soft proof system that simulates the ink/paper combination and they can also see it on screen exactly what it will look like. well as far as a transmissive light source can permit but obviously a printed soft proof is a better guide.
there are some photographers out there who do supply seperations but they are few and far between. however most of the ones i know all have some kind of colour managed workflow in place even if it's only a calibrated screen(by hardware not twiddling sliders) a specific printer profile for their printer and paper (no rip) they can check out of gamut colours in cmyk and if they have the correct cmyk profile then adjustments can be made before it gets sent to the designer/printer.
No problems here with my new imac...
My first mac was 1988........goes misty eyed, mac IIci, it cost me 13k in all, with scanner/monitor/printer/software!!
'CS10 board, films, overlays, Omnicrom, Letraset, marker pens, Rotring pens, Agfa cameras'..........
don't forget cowgum
you forgot the grant enlarger.
Grant enlarger, best thing ever after a heavy night........you could snooze doing an extra long trace
i know somebody who fell asleep under the dark cloth while looking through the back of a 10x8 camera.
halcyon days.
some designers supply the seperations (i guess it's just a file not a physical thing) because they know the profile (dot gain ink limit etc) and the stock it's going to be printed on
This is just gonna run in circles so I ain't gonna add any more. You are happy with your suppliers and I am happy for you...
you could snooze doing an extra long trace
Nah - the Agfa cameras were the best - all that light sensitive paper meant you were in darkroom conditions - no-one could walk in without knocking first. Lots of sleep opportunities taken in those days 🙂
err you asked. i just answered with what i know from experience with designers who do supply seperations.
just because you don't doesn't mean it's a personal ad-hominem attack directed at you.
If I can just drag everyone out of memory lane 😉 Back to the original post then, I am looking to buy high end I macs with 24" screens running CS4.
I will also need a Mac book for visiting clients, any recomendations as to which one to go for?
It would be used for showing pdfs and a little bit of tweaking of designs in InDesign.
just because you don't doesn't mean it's a personal ad-hominem attack directed at you.
Not taking it as such, but you have your preferred way of approaching things, I happen to not agree with you and you don't agree with me either so to keep batting back and forth will get neither of us anywhere so I ain't gonna keep arguing about why I don't agree with you. That's all. 🙂
then why ask me?
By the way - when was the last time you were supplied with separations????
i'm not looking at trying to convince you of anything. just offering info to the O/P and answering your question.
I will also need a Mac book for visiting clients, any recomendations as to which one to go for?
if you are showing people work on it then a matt screen. there will be more than just the 17in available in matt soon as apple are finally listening to their pro customers. check the rumour sites for more info. the matt screens have a greater viewing angle and will have less reflections in trendy brightly lit meeting rooms.
if you are doing graphic design then you need a pro and a decent screen, the screens on the imacs are just not good enough for colour critical work.
Just out of interest - which iMacs are you referring to? I've got a latest 24" and a 20" here in my studio and the screen in the 24" is a world apart from the one in the 20", as well as the various macbook pros and cinema displays lying around. It's easily a match for the fancy Nec we have downstairs for video stuff too...
Specced out 24" iMac is my weapon of choice! 🙂
then why ask me?
Because I was trying to get to understand your reasoning, which I don't and it appears I won't so am (trying to) give up trying!
And besides, from what you say, you seem to be blurring the line between designers and pre-press. I am not pre-press, I am a designer. If something is colour critical, I can specify a cmyk or Pantone breakdown or I can pass on press. I would never, ever get involved in setting up separations allowing for dot gain for a specific stock or ink type. To me that is the printers and their pre-press department to sort.
But me is me, and you is you. And as I have said, it works for you so all well and good.
Sorry 'wetgrassagain'
Running CS4 on 24" 2.93 4Gb
Doesn't the iMac have DVI out anyway? I'd have thought iMac plus fancy screen would be great for usability if the standard CPU/graphics card have enough grunt for what you do.
I'm a techie, not a designer though, any screens OK for xterm 🙂
Ok, now you've got all that off your collective chests, answer me this. I have an 24" IMac 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo - 4Gb thank you very much and want to change my out n'about, meeting clients, HP lappie for a Macbook Pro 17", but windows 17" laptop, £450ish, Apple Macbook Pro 17" £1800ish!!!!
aviemoron: are they really the same thing though?
I thought my 13" macbook pro was a bit of an indulgence but I tried to build a dell that was genuinely comparable and it was the same price in the end...
Whats the spec of the HP? If it's got integrated graphics etc. it's going to be more like a Macbook.. you do still pay a bit of Apple Tax though.
When I bought my Pro, like for like, it was only about £150 more than the cheapest (Acer I think), and roughly on a par with equivalent Thinkpads, which is a reasonable quality comparison. I thought the extra was worth it becuse I work with *nix a fair bit, and I wanted to play and learn about OSX. Also it allowed me to play games and do my usual home computer stuff as well as hacking a bit of perl or shell scripting without rebooting. Though I bought it as an Ebay import and it was around £1200, which helped.
This was a few years back, first of the Core2 Pros.
a £450 17" windows laptop is gonna be a turd.
surely you're not comparing the cheapest 17" laptop with a 17" macbook pro.
what i'm super impressed with is the battery (on my 15") - really is a good 6 hours doing proper work!
Got a 13" macbook pro and am very happy with it. If your simply requiring a laptop to show customers stuff on, maybe the 13 or the 15" base spec?
Love the build quality, mac os, trackpad, and battery.
All though can anyone offer advice on how to calibrate the macbook screen? the colours are abit off and I cant seem to improve them using the mac tool in systems preferences so currently use Adobe rgb profile.
mastiles_fanylion - Member
Take the point about the monitor, but as a designer the imac screen is a quantum leap forward from what I was using 10 years ago!
[old bloke]You should have been designing/artworking 20 years ago then - CS10 board, films, overlays, Omnicrom, Letraset, marker pens, Rotring pens, Agfa cameras. It would take two days to do what you can do in an hour now - and another two days to get the Cromalin colour proofs back from the repro house...[/old bloke]
In fact, I miss those days - it was a real skill that is now lost forever.
mastiles_fanylion - Member
ooh i've got some rotring pens, lovely things they are. Maybe i'll clean them up and get them functioning againAnyone remember the 'taptaptap' you would periodically hear as someone in the studio was trying to get ink into the nib of a .17 Rotring... (followed by the 'ohh f*ck' as they accidentally hit the nib on the desk and bent it.
And the agonised yelp when cutting a sheet of CS10 and remembering that you shouldn't be using the battered beveled edge set-square just as the scalpel rides up the bevel and across the fingers holding said set-square. Only did [i]that[/i] once. Used a waxer for sticking down type galleys where I first worked, much cleaner than Cow Gum. Also stopped the little trick of slicing the paper label off, sticking it back on upside down then taking the lid off and quickly turning the tin upside down on the unsuspecting victim's desk and placing the lid on the upturned bottom of the tin. Oh, how we laughed!
Best job I had was operating a Crosfield 6250 drum scanner then retouching the scans ready for repro. Loved that job. Pretty much killed by customers buying digital cameras and £250 scanners from PC World and accepting the results as adequate. Appalled at the standards of repro in some publications these days. *sigh*
Anyway, back to the OP, where I now work, the studio chap uses an iMac for all our artwork, running the latest Adobe CS and Quark 8, with a set up that allows him to see an older Mac tower, (my old Mac from 1995!), and can drag and drop across the side-by-side monitors. Neat trick, watching the cursor leave his screen and appear on the other Mac's screen.
And the agonised yelp
Ohh yes - a rite of passage for all artworkers 🙂 Once cut myself quite badly and couldn't even button up clothes as the pain shot right through all my nerve-endings.
I've still got the scars from where I've taken the tips of my fingers off!!
If your work really is critical then do not get a Macbook Pro with the thirteen inch screen.
[url= http://mantia.me/blog/macbook-pro-thousands-of-colors/ ]Macbook Colours[/url]
I was under the impression that no laptop or very few, had an 8 bit screen?
If you compare the screens of the Macbook Pro 13" and 15" side by side you can definitely see a difference. But whether this difference is critical to you is entirely subjective.
Just to be pedantic, I've spent the last 20 years of my life as a design separation artist/manager/head of design, and when reading CVs of potential design separation candidates, I used to bin the ones where said candidates couldn't spell sepAration! 😆
Please feel free to now call me names!
I used to bin the ones where said candidates couldn't spell sepAration!
LOL
Would you also bin the ones from people who use Quark Xpress and Quark Express? 😉
(Funny though - the last time I checked - I use InDesign now - the program didn't actually have QuarkXPress in its own dictionary)
Sorry to bring this back on topic; I use a MBP 15 (Mid 2008 one, 4GB RAM) along with a 23" ACD. It easily outpaces a colleagues Dual G5 2.5. For instance on one project we run a set of specs, MBP: 90seconds, G5:4 minutes.
Unless I found myself doing lots of HD video day-in-day-out (and lets face it, I'm a programmer most of the time, so not likely to happen soon), then I would get a Mac Pro, but the Core2Duos are more than powerful enough for almost any other media workload.
MBPs rumoured to be getting matte screen option for the 15" in September, so I'm waiting till that happens before replacing this one.
Does anyone still use Quark!