it stinks of hypocrisy for you to come on here, try to tell us what we all should and shouldn't do whilst pretending you're concerned in any way about road safety when you can't yourself even be bothered to get of your own lazy arse and get some extra driver training.
Silly argument, in a black and white world the guy fresh off the ROSPA course would be better than Mr Average who's better than the drunk. Why is it hypocrytical for Mr Average to tell Mr Drunk to sober up?
No more hypocritical than the ROSPA drivers oppinion, after all he's not a fighter pilot or F1 driver, so what business does he have to criticicise others?
There will always be someone better than you by some measure. ROSPA/IAM is the driving equivelent of "I'm an engineer" or "You're not a parent, you wouldn't understand".
mefty - Member
Any change will have an economic cost and therefore a human cost, so there will be a downside as well as an upside to any reduction. It should also be noted that although we no longer has the safest roads in Europe, we are still one of the safest places to drive.
Which would of course be offset against (1) the economic benefit in reduced accidents [estimated cost to Scotland > £1.5 BN per annum form RTA's (2) the local economic benefit to taxi drivers from increased use of taxis (3) the improvement to public health from people who decide - actually 3 pints is enough if I am driving at 7am.
does that not prove why legislation not voluntary guilt is required to improve road safety?rebel12 - Member
It just proves my point that you seem to like the sound of your own voice more than you actually give a rats arse about road safety. If you did care then you'd have got the extra training. At the end of the day actions speak louder than words don't they.
Because there is absolutely zero evidence that lowering the limit to 50mg will make any difference to road safety, or that the problem drinkers will obay the 50mg limit any more than they do the current 80mg limit.
Well other than the evidence given in parliament of course...
[i] the North Report which indicated that drivers are six times more likely to die with a blood alcohol
concentration between 50 and 80 mgs than with zero blood alcohol. [/i]
[i]the British Medical Association4 that the relative risk of being involved in a road traffic accident for drivers with a reading of 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood was 10 times higher than for drivers with
a zero blood alcohol reading. The relative accident risk for drivers with a
reading of 50mg of alcohol per 100ml blood was twice the level than for drivers
with a zero blood alcohol reading. [/i]
But you are again ignoring my question - if the evidence from Scotland shows it does reduce casualties will you change your stance for the rUK?
and yet police scotland (and the COPFS who conduct prosecutions in Scotland - not the police) both seem to have been active supporters of the changes... despite these being times of austerity... Police Scotland expect a 30% increase in cases on simple extrapolation - but others suggest their will be a fall as people stop "chancing a couple of pints". You are assuming that there will be no change in public behaviour - but all the anecdotal evidence I have heard suggest there are lots of people who will modify their habits.If police now have their time stretched prosecuting the many more people who would likely exceed the new 50mg limit, then their resources are even further diverted away from tackling those with the biggest problem and those who pose the greatest danger.
But you are again ignoring my question - if the evidence from Scotland shows it does reduce casualties will you change your stance for the rUK?
Nope, cause the evidence won't show that. All it will show is that more previously law abiding people are now loose their licence's and their liveley hoods.
😆 😆 😆
well, that's pretty watertight. ever considered a career as a Fox TV pundit?
Isn’t the argument for either 50 or 80mgs in essence the same- allowing people to drive whilst being under the influence of alcohol?
If it’s so clear cut why not lower it to 10-20mgs & be done.
seosamh77 - Member
Or the price of a pint just got more and more expensive causing a societal change where people couldn't afford to prop up a bar 5/6/7 night a week.
Nope, was the smoking ban in my old village. I know this as I was able to speak to the people who stopped going.
Nope, was the smoking ban in my old village. I know this as I was able to speak to the people who stopped going.
Not that old chestnut. Lots of folk used that as an excuse, just another thing to aim at the powers that be.
Not that old chestnut. Lots of folk used that as an excuse, just another thing to aim at the powers that be.
In good old STW fashion, don't let the fact that I was in the village at the time and was part of the social circle involved get in the way of you being correct because you have decided you must be because it's what you think and no one else can possibly be more aware of the facts in any given location then you.
Punctuation! 😀
Jush back from a seshun in the pub in my rural village. One of four pubs operating in a village of 2000-odd population.
Seemed pretty busy for a Thursday night. The smokers in our merry group disappeared outside and did their thing as they felt the urge.
Seems to me that any loss through the smoking ban is a purely temporary effect as society adjusts.
I imagine the changes to the alcohol limit will be much the same.
GrahamS - MemberFWIW I am unconvinced that Advanced Driver training is the road safety panacea you seem to think it is. My FiL is an "Advanced Driver" and he is blimmin awful.
So the insurance companies that offer reduced premiums for advanced drivers are actually wrong, according to your sample of one?
Well you just carry on wanting safer roads, as long as what ever has to be done to achieve this is done by other people, and not you.
Good effort trooper! 😀
Punctuation!
That was the whole point!
Probably OT at this point in the thread, but if if from December on I have a post ride pint in Scotlandshire, am I likely to be over the limit?
No one can say, too many variables, best to not bother IMO.
the expert advice is it is too difficult to be sure. It depends on you (how much you drink normally), your size, your gender, what you've eaten, possibly how dehydrated you are after exercising, and also on the beer - 3.8-5.3% wouldn't be uncommon depending on brand (but that is a 30%+ error), and how long you spread the drink over / wait before driving...Andy_K - Member
Probably OT at this point in the thread, but if if from December on I have a post ride pint in Scotlandshire, am I likely to be over the limit?
...its certainly not impossible that you would be under the (new) limit BUT it is also possible you could be over it... all official advice is not to risk it - if you are over the limit, your are over the limit, not expecting to be is not a defence. I've spoken to a few people planning to get there own breathalyser - but none that I am aware of at affordable prices will come with independent calibration/certification - its entirely possible that such a device might be say 20% out - and again its no defence.
hey sbob, slight hijack - can you tell me some insurers that actually offer this "discount" as any I have never found any who get remotely close to the best price for me each year.
I've always found that the saving if I was an IAM member was less than half the membership fee 😐
I did motorbike IAM and got a pretty trivial discount, it shouldn't be why you do the course mind but I was surprised how little difference it made. (and of course you're only an Advanced Driver for as long as you're paying the membership fee 😉 The day you quit all that extra skill just gets deleted from your brain)
I've had advanced driving lessons but not with the IAM. Is confuzed.
They offered us at work membership with some sort of reduced test a while back (Emergency Service). We'd still have to pay the membership cost though. When asked the person promoting it admitted we'd probably not recoup the cost so no one did it.
Any amount of alcohol impairs your driving ability.
Forget the legal stuff, if you deliberately take anything that you know impairs your driving ability and then go and drive, you are an idiot.
Just a reminder that the new limits are now in operation.
Between midnight and 6AM 4 people were tested positive and 3 have been charged.
This is about the biggest news in Scotland since the referendum, how stupid do you have to be to have even looked at some booze and head out in the car?
I can feel the effects after half a pint, so I've never bothered with this one or two pints and you'll be alright
I'm sure different people are affected differently
[quote=BigButSlimmerBloke ]Between midnight and 6AM 4 people were tested positive and 3 have been charged.
Ah, but would they have been under the old limit?
jools182 - Member
I can feel the effects after half a pint,
are you 3 ft 4? 😆
[quote=seosamh77 ]
are you 3 ft 4? Half pint of whisky perhaps?jools182 - Member
I can feel the effects after half a pint,
aracer - Member
BigButSlimmerBloke » Between midnight and 6AM 4 people were tested positive and 3 have been charged.
Ah, but would they have been under the old limit?
It doesn't matter if they would have been under the old limit, it doesn't exist any more! Everyone has had plenty of warnings to say don't do it!
Everyone has had plenty of warnings to say don't do it!
You'd have to be pretty dense to not work out the cops would be out in force on the first night of the new limit. But some people apparently just need everything explained to them
are you 3 ft 4?
Over 6' 😳
Any one hear Nicky Campbell on 5live this morning? He didn't seem happy about the lowering of the drink drive limit!!
I'm not convinced 50mg relates to less than a pint...its just propaganda put out to put people off risking a pint. I know everyone's different but a friend of mine got pulled on his way home from the pub after 2.5 pints and was made to wait 20mins so it was all in his system (whilst crapping himself) and when tested it was 12mgs. He's 6ft and 16stone mind.
Local radio interviewing people this morning after people getting caught already, one genius described how it was stupid as it would make people depressed 'cos they can't go out drinking with their mates then drive the next day! Dufuq!
Success! All that tambourine playing has not been for nought!
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Think everyone was keeking their drawers about this, pubs seemed empty last night! 😆
Out of curiosity, I had three pints last night when out for something to eat, over a 2 hour period, tested myself on one of those personal breathalysers about an hour later.
measured 0.5, another hour later the thing had me down as ok to drive, less than 0.2 i measured..
I don't have a license mind so it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me, but I was surprised. Maybe the extra padding I carry helps me out! 😆
Sorry if I missed this point but trying to read 8 pages did my head in ......
Having just driven back from Scotland to England the thought occurred re what happens if you are marginally over the limit in Scotland but would have been legal in the rest of the UK? Should you only be banned from driving in Scotland as you have not broken the law for driving elsewhere?
Test case required?
Interesting point @woody, whether the Scots have the power to take away your UK licence. In Europe they can fine you but they cannot take away your UK licence or give you penalty points.
Should you only be banned from driving in Scotland as you have not broken the law for driving elsewhere?
The law is the Law. If you get caught doing 60 in a 30 and lose your license, you don't just get banned from 30mph zones.
Interesting point @woody, whether the Scots have the power to take away your UK licence. In Europe they can fine you but they cannot take away your UK licence or give you penalty points.
As you keep pointing out in the other Scottish threads, Scotland is (still) part of the UK. Lose your license in Scotland, lose it everywhere in the UK.
The law is the Law.
Scots law is different, so why should someone living in England be banned from driving in England if they haven't broken the law in their home country? It's a UK driving licence NOT a Scottish one and as such all legalities should be the same IMHO.
On a different point, I was also charged over £8 for a large G&T as a 'large' is priced the same as 2 singles by 'law' as drinks 'deals' are now illegal. Bloody disgrace that civilised people are now penalised because of pissheads! 🙄
since when? Was out a couple of weeks ago and was asked plenty of times "double for 30p extra?"as a 'large' is priced the same as 2 singles by 'law' as drinks 'deals' are now illegal
yeah but the speake ris always civilized it's those that drink more than them who are pissheads 😉Bloody disgrace that civilised people are now penalised because of pissheads!
Scots law is different, so why should someone living in England be banned from driving in England if they haven't broken the law in their home country? It's a UK driving licence NOT a Scottish one and as such all legalities should be the same IMHO.
It's a UK licence. If you break the laws of a UK country which carries a penalty of losing your UK licence then, surprise surprise, you lose it.
you'd think so but I guess we should wait and see what happens when mr loophole and his cronies get hold of a case like that.It's a UK licence. If you break the laws of a UK country which carries a penalty of losing your UK licence then, surprise surprise, you lose it.
Nope.
UK gov would need to remove the ability of Scottish courts decisions to endorse a UK licence. Which won't happen. You're more likely to see the limit being lowered in England than you are for a drink driving ban enforced only in the country it was committed in (which is, quite frankly, a breathtakingly stupid suggestion)
fair enough, I'm just cynical of that duplicitous git's ability to get seemingly very guilty people off the hook.
I know what you mean. He has carved himself out quite a nice little (profitable!) niche.
Even if Scotland was independent it's plausible that breaking iScotland's drink driving laws would see you also being banned in rUK. For example, there are "mutual endorsement" arrangements in place with the Isle of Man to cover serious offences.
