. If someone is underage and needs to process alcohol or other restricted items then they put their little light on and a supervisor / assistant comes over and approves it.
Not when I were a lad.
It were all mechanical tills then that you had to find the adhesive price sticker and type the price in. No barcode scanners to flag up prohibited items or itemised receipts and no way for the supermarket to prove that a supervisor had signed it off (other than initialling the paper till roll but that didn't really prove anything)
It was just easier to put up a sign rather than risk losing the store's alcohol licence.
I once bought alcohol from a Tesco. True story.
It was so busy that all the checkouts had huge queues but not a single person was just in for bread and milk?
I smell bullshit.
Doing a temporary stint at a local Tescos thanks to covid affecting my business (thanks for the job Tesco! Impressive what they did), I can confirm from my limited but still recent and decent experience that ~70% of my transactions didn't have alcohol
As far as i am aware it is Tesco policy that employees who cannot handle items such as alcohol do not work on the till.
Three pints and bottle of mouthwash was about my limit. After that I start scanning my tongue and giggling.
I find it hard to believe that someone so devout that they cannot handle alcohol even when it’s in sealed containers would apply for a job in Tesco where they might be requested to do exactly that, along with handling other potentially problematic products.
When you need a job you take what you can get.
I find it hard to believe that Tesco would take someone so devout that they cannot handle alcohol even when it’s in sealed containers and place them on a checkout where they might be pressured into doing exactly that.
If they didn't, they would be in violation of the equality act.
Close it ..... everything after Kilo had jumped the shark.
20 years ago my mate Will used to work behind a till in Tesco Buckingham. He used to pass the beer over without scanning it so we could get drunk for free. He wasn't Muslim and he also died very young.
Makes you think.
My point is that religious people of whatever flavour choose the bits they like and are total hypocrites about the rest.
My point is that bigots of whatever flavour choose the bits they hate and are total hypocrites about the rest
That buzzfeed article is worth a read incidentally. I’d recommend everyone read it before posting here.
Exactly. £4 bottle of wine, does that actually exist?
The story was about how Lee Saunders, 35, was refused sale of a £4 bottle of wine by a Muslim worker at Tesco in the London suburb of Feltham, due to her "religious beliefs".
One of my minions is Muslim
One of my minions is Muslim
Grougar
A Indian restaurant in town wouldn’t serve alcohol but they allowed you to bring your own with corkage fee, you had to pour it yourself. Didn’t feel it was odd as they chose not to touch it due their religion.
Why are you spelling it Moslem? None of the Muslims I know would spell or pronounce it like that.
Why are you spelling it Moslem? None of the Muslims I know would spell or pronounce it like that.
Both are fine as I normally prefer Muslim but certain people write them as Moslem. To be consistent with OP I just write Moslem to avoid confusion. Most in Islamic countries tend to use the term Muslim rather than Moslem. The latter seem to be recent phenomena.
All part of the trolling I would suspect but best not to interact really.
Why are you spelling it Moslem?
Don't feed the Troll
Both are fine as I normally prefer Muslim but certain people write them as Moslem. To be consistent with OP I just write Moslem to avoid confusion. Most in Islamic countries tend to use the term Muslim rather than Moslem. The latter seem to be recent phenomena.
Both really aren't fine. Muslim Council of Britain requested that the Daily Mail stopped spelling it like that when they were the last media hold out in 2004. Would you call a black person a negro?
Phonetically, the arabic word pronounced 'Muslim' means someone devoted to god. 'Moslem' means someone 'evil or unjust'. So there is a bit of a difference, I'd say.
Was she selling any Ray guns?
Perhaps she was worried about the Lazer from the scanner*
*niche joke for STW long serving members with good memories and tendency to join in on weird threads
Oh shit chewkw has turned up, its only going downhill from here. close it now!!
So I spoke with my Muslim colleague. At length, I've just got off the phone in fact. I'll try and distil an hour and a half into a paragraph.
The crux of it was "these aren't things we're supposed to hate." He said that someone objecting to handling alcohol in the manner the OP describes could probably happen but would very much be in a minority. He told me if he'd encountered this situation he'd have given her a bit of religious coaching [my terminology, I forget how he phrased it but basically suggesting to her that she'd got it wrong] and tell her that the she was there to do a job and should be doing it.
So there you go. Straight from the mouth of one of your actual Muslims and one of the nicest blokes it's ever been my pleasure to know, relayed to you by a grumpy white atheist who likes to argue with strangers on the Internet. HTH.
Is he a shiite, sufi, sunni, wahabi? I suspect that there is no such thing as muslim anymore than there is a Christian. Christians don't agree on the sacrament, why would islam be any different?
That's even if you exclude the Saudis that deplane in Bahrain and make straight for the alcohol but won't let their wives or daughters drive. People, eh?
To be fair it doesn't really matter whether (we think) her personal beliefs accord with (what we understand of) her religion and what a majority of her Muslim peers would do. She has a strongly-held personal belief and her work is accommodating that.
FWIW I don't think that's any more or less reasonable than believing in a Christian God with zero evidence. In fact I'll go a step further - alcohol is kinda bad for individuals and society as a whole so that particular belief seems more rational to me ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Phonetically, the arabic word pronounced ‘Muslim’ means someone devoted to god. ‘Moslem’ means someone ‘evil or unjust’. So there is a bit of a difference, I’d say.
That's new to me as I thought it was just a western pronunciation with the same meaning.
Oh shit chewkw has turned up, its only going downhill from here. close it now!!
😆
In light of recent events (that other thread wot I closed) I'll be watching this very carefully, but if it interferes with my movie night then I'm pulling the trigger.
but if it interferes with my movie night t
Passion of the Christ or Submission?
Wonder what would have happened if all the checkout personnel were muslims & took the same stance, & then the self service checkouts got overloaded with work?
I'd go somewhere else.
A lad I worked with in the prison service was a devout muslim. Until he went on any 'works do' then he wasn't as devout as earlier on in the evening.
Debbie does dallas?
That’s new to me as I thought it was just a western pronunciation with the same meaning.
It was until not too long ago largely due to western conceit/ignorance. Then people who actually spoke arabic pointed out the difference. Someone who spoke arabic explained it to me once, it's pretty complicated. I didn't entirely understand it at the time and don't remember most of it but Moslem is related to different tenses of darkness and unjust or is a verb for one and adjective for the other or something. So yeah, muslim is someone who submits to the will of God, Moslem is dark and unjust or some variation
Debbie does dallas?
Original or remake?
The latter seem to be recent phenomena.
No, it's an old one. And when pronounced by English speaking people, it sounds very insulting to people who understand Arabic. It might have propped up recently in the bits of the internets where being 'accidentally' insulting about Muslims is seen as fun... I'd suggest avoiding that stuff and not spreading it.
So I spoke with my Muslim colleague. At length, I’ve just got off the phone in fact. I’ll try and distil an hour and a half into a paragraph.
Someone in your HR department is currently having palpitations that you have just asked a Muslim to explain the actions of all other Muslims and managed to keep this conversation going for 90 minutes...
Is he a shiite, sufi, sunni, wahabi?
I've no idea. I'll ask him if you can convince me it's relevant to anything.
Someone in your HR department is currently having palpitations that you have just asked a Muslim to explain the actions of all other Muslims and managed to keep this conversation going for 90 minutes…
Meanwhile, back in the real world, I spent 90 minutes going "yes... right... uh-huh..." as it was a subject he loves to talk about and I couldn't get him off the phone. And I didn't ask him to "explain all Muslims," I asked him what his experiences were.
Most UK muslims are sunni. Asking if he's wahabi seems a bit odd given what Cougar said about his responses - it's kinda like asking a Christian if they are Westboro Baptists.
Oh, I have a mildly boring Tesco / alcohol tale.
Years ago, I went to Tesco to buy amongst other things some alcohol-free beer. As I recall, my then-girlfriend was on antibiotics at the time. This was like 1am and back in the day when licensing laws restricted alcohol sales to certain times of the day but I figured, alcohol free right?
Got to the checkout with an armful of Becks Blue only to be told they couldn’t sell me alcohol. I pointed out that it was alcohol free, she went “oh yeah” and scanned it, to be met with ‘computer says no.’ I protested, she dragged over a supervisor.
The supervisor told me that, even though it was alcohol-free, there would actually be traces of alcohol in the beer and that’s why they couldn’t sell it to me. I pointed out the tub of “vodka and chilli” pasta sauce that they’d already processed quite happily and offered to go and get a few bottles of shandy down for her to try and scan, to which she replied, “I’ll get the manager.”
I declined. I figured there’s probably not a lot a store manager could do to override what is presumably a barcode cataloguing error and in any case they probably had better things to be doing at 1am. Besides which, it wasn’t sufficiently big a deal to be making a fuss about.
They gave me their customer services address which was somewhere in Glasgow, I was going to write to them not as a complaint – both staff were lovely and agreed with me that it was just a bit odd – but out of curiosity as to whether this was intentional and what the reasoning was. Then apathy inevitably set in and I never bothered.
Coolest story EVAH!
Same happened to me buying Nanny State at 2300 in Cumbernauld. Unlike your lazy arse I did go and find out and it would appear (after reading the label or something) that it's classified as alcohol for VAT purposes despite probably having less than a bottle of shandy.
Did I shit in someone’s cornflakes on Monday or something?
No, it was a bowl of popcorn.
Oh ****!
MAAARK!
The Muslim and Moslim thing seems like a bit of a language oversight. Especially with how close U and O are on a keyboard. Somebody didn’t think things through when they created the Arabic language did they? Yes I’m looking at you early peoples of the Arabian Peninsula. Did you not thing of how small a smartphone keyboard is and how shire predictive text can be?
The Muslim and Moslim thing seems like a bit of a language oversight.
Muslim and Moslem.
Yep, that one too Tom!
I’ve no idea. I’ll ask him if you can convince me it’s relevant to anything.
The point is, like most things religious, the devil is in the details. His version of Islam is different to the cashier's, if s/he exists. His attempt to educate her in his particular subset is as likely going to be received as well as everytime the anglican archbishop tried to explain to the pope that they'd had it wrong all along, it was a typo and the word was actually celebrate.
kinda like asking a Christian if they are Westboro Baptists.
Well.spotted. and exactly the point.
His version of Islam is different to the cashier’s, if s/he exists.
Is it reasonable to assume that geography would influence this though? Are two people sharing the same local shop either as employee or customer more likely to be of the same branch?
Is it reasonable to assume that geography would influence this though?
That's a good question. You could argue, I suppose, that immigration patterns tend towards people with shared background (be it country/culture of origin or religion etc). Gravitating towards a particular area. Although staff might come from further away than customers based on socioeconomic factors. Plus sharing a religion doesn't guarantee in any way sharing beliefs.
I've been on stw for around 10 years and have seen some brilliant posts in my time. But kilo's comment was absolute genius..post of the decade for me for sure!
This thread deserves to stay open simply so others can see it..
One thing which I think needs pointing out is a few weeks ago some bike brands took a rightful stand against racism and social justice and most recently wideopen magazine. What it lead to was a bunch of morons claiming this was a welcoming sport and no one is racist and it's all rosy - the last few posts on this site clearly say the opposite. It makes me ashamed to think there are people with views like this in something I love so much
You could argue, I suppose, that immigration patterns tend towards people with shared background
I was thinking more that people living local to each other might share the same mosque (church, synagogue, insert place of worship here) and so receive the same teachings.
the last few posts on this site clearly say the opposite.
Which posts are those?
joepud what you on about?
As above really an issue for Tesco and employee. If you don't like their customer service go elsewhere.
I suspect a lot taken out of context. Meanwhile Kilo, ho ho ho.
and so receive the same teachings.
Ah, I see where you're coming from. Yes, that makes sense as far as it goes. Don't know a lot about mosques but if what my grandmother used to say about the church council meetings is anything to go by, they didn't agree on much, including theology, so I suspect most religious places are the same. Much like the US and england are divided by a common language. There will probably be groups within the group who place differing emphasis on differing bits so even though the teachings are common the actual belief isn't.
joepud what you on about?
Well I don't know if the op was a joke but some of the views here haven't exactly (in my opinion anyway) been the most inclusive. And the trans post which got closed was hardly a glowing reference for how inclusive mountain bikers are. On a phone with a broken hand can't be bothered to track through this lot. But just my opinion.
It makes me ashamed to think there are people with views like this in something I love so much
Take up golf?
Jeez just realized the OP is the rivnut/towball guy.
Can someone let me know if the 4 pages are amusing enough to read? I'm hopeful.
And the trans post which got closed was hardly a glowing reference for how inclusive mountain bikers are.
People ride mountain bikes, lots of them. Some of those people are going to be dicks. Your statement is no different to all football fans are hooligans. Some people who enjoy mountain biking will be nice, open minded individuals and some won't.
can I mention the time I cried on my trainers in Sainsburys?
You'll never be a guide dog with that attitude.
I’ve been on stw for around 10 years and have seen some brilliant posts in my time. But kilo’s comment was absolute genius..post of the decade for me for sure!
This thread deserves to stay open simply so others can see it..
I thoroughly agree
Jeez just realized the OP is the rivnut/towball guy.
I've not even opened that thread. Does it need reviewing?
This forum does have some users that have opinions that are definitely "a little abrasive". However, it's the only "social media" I actually participate in as it's genuinely a digital utopia in comparison to almost everything else out there.
Take up golf?
Yeh because that's the answer rather than challenge people whos views are just wrong for 2020.
it’s genuinely a digital utopia in comparison to almost everything else out there.
This. Check pinkbike or MTBR whenever a trans girl does well in a World Cup. Vile, criminal stuff goes unmodded. Pinkbike have improved in the wake of George floyd, MTBR, not so much.
This notion crops up from time to time. Are you arguing in favour of censoring all posts from people whose views we disagree with and ban those we don't like? And yet, we're already accused in other threads of STW being an echo chamber.
Generally speaking, this place is self-policing as people with distasteful views get put back in their box pretty quickly by the rest of the userbase. (Cue accusations of bullying...) Is it not better to challenge these views rather than sweep them under the carpet and pretend they're not there? It's rare, but minds have been changed on here.
Yeh because that’s the answer rather than challenge people whos views are just wrong for 2020.
Go challenge them then.
Pro tip incidentally, if you find something that you think is inappropriate on the forum then every single post has a "report post" link under it where you can flag it for review, so a photographic memory is not required.
Take up golf?
With a broken hand?
Check pinkbike or MTBR
Pistonheads, Mumsnet...
Pistonheads, Mumsnet…
Life is too short to go there. That other places are far worse than this does not absolve those of us posting here to try much harder.
That other places are far worse than this does not absolve those of us posting here to try much harder.
No, but it kinda grates when we get compared/likened to the absolute worst of the internet.
I’ve not even opened that thread. Does it need reviewing
Not from a moderator viewpoint, it might enlighten re the op tho.
That other places are far worse than this does not absolve those of us posting here to try much harder.
This is true, but what tomhoward said.
We don't always get it right but we're trying very hard to make this a nice place. It's a balance between allowing people to share opinions, even if we don't necessarily like them, whilst keeping a lid on the more disruptive or offensive posts / posters.
When someone comes in going "IT'S ALL SHIT!!1!" with no further information or qualification, there's nothing we can do with that information and that's frustrating. What are we doing wrong? It's not constructive, it's just complaining and there's nothing here that helps us improve things. In the IT world it's like a fault report of "it doesn't work." Which is why when Joe expressed disappointment I asked the question, "which posts?" - I wasn't being confrontational, I was asking for clarification.
Not from a moderator viewpoint, it might enlighten re the op tho.
I'e since read it. Bails beat me to the only comment I'd have had on that.
I get where the OP is coming from. A bloke on the till at Forbidden Planet (who is a practising Jedi) once refused to sell me a bottle of Romulan Ale.
despite some of the extremely toxic posts from a certain individual.
When someone complains that they feel like they are being bullied can we please stop piling on?
Just understand that not everyone comes from a nice white middle class background and may have overly active reactions to perceived attacks.
IMO that thread brought out the worst in people so can we please just leave it to die.
Cougar
I was thinking more that people living local to each other might share the same mosque (church, synagogue, insert place of worship here) and so receive the same teachings.
Facilitating alcohol (or prostitution) are not a matter of teaching or interpretation in Islam.
There is no leeway through interpretation ... it is the same as taking part yourself.. serving pig isn't, it's a matter of interpretation or distaste.
I think that "local argument" is backwards.... people, especially immigrants naturally move to the place where their very specific sub-culture (in the widest sense) and extended family are.
Pennsylvania is a historic example. Notably granted by a minority (catholic) king...
I'm lucky to live in a town with a very old and established mosque (claims to be the oldest in N Europe) and that has over the years attracted a very diverse set of islamic cultures. As such there is no specific ethnicity or sub-culture.
However as integration goes this lags behind somewhere like Paris.
The central mosque has a cafe and resto...(and a Hammam) that welcomes everyone.
The alcohol issue is solved quite simply ... you are free to take a bottle of wine and get your own glasses and pick up as corkscrew and return it but not to ask. (even though I'd hazard 1/2 the serving staff wouldn't give 2c... if you did)
Take up golf?
And yet you are still here
Participation is not mandatory
Walk away.
Please, stop telling someone to go away if they feel excluded. Why do you think that is helpful?
just pause that a sec?
How did I miss this thread? I'm sorry but having not reviewed carefully just jumped page 1 to 4, we havE:
OP posts obviously fictional story guaranteed to produce a response from those who take it at face value (I won't say the slightly naive. Oh. I did).
Discussion starts.
OP does not respond.
5 pages in and still plenty of steam. It's definitely a high eight, if not a nine pointer ('prophets' probably pushes it to nine).
I am now going to check out the rivets thread hoping it's equally er, rivetting?
Carry on...
**** hell, people think I actually meant “take up golf”. Can’t be that thick surely?
ha ha ha, yeah, who’d be that daft? (slowly puts club down and backs out of golf R us)
**** hell, people think I actually meant “take up golf”. Can’t be that thick surely?
There are conditions that mean people take things literally. Nothing to do with being 'thick'
Also, jokingly saying “if mountain biking is too white and straight for you, go do something else”, is not helping when dropped in this thread (with its reference in the title to the closed thread). It’s an attitude that’s worse elsewhere, but even here it looks like a backlash against people saying, “hey, let’s try a bit of understating, and, you know, take ownership about our hobby looking like it excludes so many people who don’t feel like they fit”.
What is there to get offended by? Who’s getting bullied? STW is about as PC & left wing as it gets.
If we're trying to be balanced (speaking as an instinctive PC lefty hand wringer), there is such a thing and "PC & left wing" bullying. Whether or not we have a victim here I cannot say.
Personally I tend to think you've lost whatever flawed argument you were pursuing (my bias showing again) if you have to resort to the "I feel harassed/bullied" argument after claiming to see no issue with the marginalisation of certain groups of people from a different background to your own. One minute you can't stand whingers, the next you are subject to unfair censorship and bullying yourself? It's worth considering if you're just being challenged, because all ideas should get challenged...
And I've found you'll get challenged here more than many other places on the interweb.
STW ain't Facebook or twitter where you can define and refine your echo chamber till it's just other voices telling you how correct you are all the time...
Its is a pretty basic format forum (like much of the internet used to be) with just two channels where we either discuss 'bicycles' or 'everything else'. There's no demographic filtering (although you might suppose it tends towards people who like MTBs), basically anyone can have a login, the only real backstop for poor behaviour is the mods and they're pretty tolerant on the whole IMO...
Don't forget this is a commercially funded corner of the interweb still and angry shouty "debates" only works for so long when you want CRC & Co. to pay to advertise their dandyhorses on your site....
But you know what, you do have the kernel of a point.
Sometimes those of us reacting (overreacting?) to what we perceive to be Trolls, Bigots or general purpose unthinking Oafs probably could stand to tone it down... I know I have certainly gone too far and been (rightly) pulled up for it in the past.
I think these topics almost inevitably descend into circular arguments and pointless bun fights as people get wound up... knowing when to "walk away" or simply evacuate to the bike forum is a useful skill.
Maybe rather than a blanket thread closures or account bans/suspensions when stuff gets a bit aggressive/personal/heated we should have better 'timeout' options?
So Mods is there a way for you to block an individual user from posting on just one specific thread or maybe just the chat forum for say 24-48hrs?
Anyway back to the topic, and following on from the Buzzfeed article are there any other similarly minor events that people know of that have been spun out to create a disproportionate amount of Clickbait and social meeja repost material? And how much could be construed as Left wing Vs Right wing propaganda?
I'm sort of fascinated by how we are all influenced/persuaded/lied to today. It's not new but it is more refined I think.
And I have to resist the urge to think it's only targeted towards those with right of centre views... Us lefties are equally susceptible IMO.
Discuss...
Not just our government that seems destined not to learn from mistakes in recent history....🤦♂️
are there any other similarly minor events that people know of that have been spun out to create a disproportionate amount of Clickbait and social meeja repost material?
“ Winterval “ has to be the classic example.
www.snopes.com have loads
There are conditions that mean people take things literally. Nothing to do with being ‘thick’
There are conditions that mean people take things literally and other conditions where people pick and choose what to take literally and what to view as a personal attack.
I certainly am no expert but one of these requires proper medical intervention not just understanding.
NEITHER of these is anyone's fault.... there is no blame but based on personal experience of F&F if you can't see when someone is actually supporting you it's time to get help that cannot possibly be provided on a bike forum.
Just to be clear I haven't told anybody to go away. And merely asked 2 relevant questions.
^^^^ cookeaa makes some very good points
Often it's not the inciting incident that brings out people's prejudices, it's the reaction.
For what it's worth, I didn't think faerie was being bullied when she first brought it up.
However, after a dozen or so white males jumped in to explain to her why she was wrong I changed my mind. We have an autistic woman of colour saying she feels like she is being piled on. The reaction, a bunch of white males pile on.
This place may be left leaning but it is certainly not diverse. Accept that others have a completely different perspective to you and that sometimes you just have to let someone be wrong on the internet.
And no, 'At least we're not pistonheads.com' is not something to congratulate yourself on.
“if mountain biking is too white and straight for you, go do something else”, is not helping when dropped in this thread
It was more about the "being ashamed" bit as far as I recall when I posted it. Don't care enough to read back, I'm afraid.
Personally, I'm hugely grateful for kilo's absolutely brilliant comment. It does seem to me that this thread is now just continuing the other, closed, thread. My vote would go to framing kilo's comment for all the posterity it deserves and shutting this down before it gets like the other one. I don't think anything useful is going to come out of this now, and to be honest I didn't really think it would when I read the first post either, but kilo proved me wrong. I really doubt that can happen again now, though.
However, after a dozen or so white males jumped in
Pretty presumptuous.
Not for me to say who but I'm certain at least one of them doesn't fit into that description.