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I see the adverts for the new series on amazon, they've spent a fortune on buying the rights, making the series and talks of further sales and billions being spent on doing more Tolkien stuff, but i've never really got the popularity, yes the books a good, the movies were nice, but it was a lot of stuff being created against a very shallow pool.
What is the big pull for world building Tolkien's stuff, again, the trilogy was nice, but it did stretch it and add a lot of filler, the Hobbit trilogy was even more of a stretch out and a bit boring and weird, so what's the driver for spending billions to world build some more, is there really the market, is there really anything of worth that's not really been told in the films via flashback or through a lot of storytelling in the movies already?
big pull for world building Tolkien’s stuff, again,
It's hobbit forming.
yes the books a good
the movies were nice, but it was a lot of stuff being created against a very shallow pool.
You have not read the books, and I claim my £5 😉
Because it is the lord of all trilogies. IMO anyway.
Tolkien created a oretty cool world, and it's a shame that most of it is pretty hard to read, Hobbit and LOTR trilogy aside.
If it's not your cup of tea, then that's fine you can ignore. I love music, but don;t see the attraction of pop factor so I don't watch..
It’s hobbit forming.
...and very moria-ish.
Added to which Game of Thrones has made a ton of cash and Amazon fancy a bit of that.
I find it all very ent-ertaining really!
but it was a lot of stuff being created against a very shallow pool.
Really?
You have not read the books, and I claim my £5
Indeed.
I just cant get myself to love it. I don't know why.
I'm not sure if I've seen all the films (I guess not knowing is the biggest indicator here) and 3 or 4 times I tried to read the first book and the furthest I got was page 100.
I was the same with the witcher, I watched all the episodes, sure I fell asleep at some point.
but before you think I just dont like middle-ages-esque dramas, I hung onto every word of game of thrones.
You have not read the books, and I claim my £5
Well that’s just orcward.
Fantasy is very popular genre and LOTR is king. These are set before the book so it’s a story created based on the world Tolkien created.
I think the first recorded review captures it for me:
during a meeting of the Inklings, the Oxford dons' book club whose members included Tolkien and C. S. Lewis, Tolkien read passages from his manuscript for The Lord of the Rings.
Tolkien was a terrible public speaker and reader, mumbling and droning, and his fellow English teacher, Hugo Dyson, promptly fell asleep. When he woke up and heard what was still going on, Dyson exclaimed, "Oh no, not another ****ing elf."
Rhymes with "clucking".
And it's not that easy to ignore, though at least it's not harry potter, which I had to read three of my kids.
Tolkien created a oretty cool world, and it’s a shame that most of it is pretty hard to read
...aren't they flogging the silmarillion in a film or something? There are more gripping telephone books. As bad as the JK Rowling universe, winner of Debbie McGee award for milking a small magician.
I loved the books and enjoyed the films.
Tolkien created a good chunk of the modern fantasy realm.
what’s the driver for spending billions to world build some more
Franchise properties are the safest bet for film & TV makers.
LOTR has huge recognition and the movies are held in high regard despite being bloated and often unengaging (thanks to Peter Jackson's filmmaking style).
It's the swords and sorcery version of Marvel, I guess.
Obviously fuelled by a perceived gap in the market left by Game of Thrones, but perhaps not grasping that GoT was so wildly popular because the first few series were really bold, original and adult orientated - as well as being superbly executed.
bold, original and adult orientated
with female characters and the white guys weren't the goodies
I read the Hobbit first and enjoyed it. Then I went onto LOTR. I finished it (on principle) but tbh I got thoroughly bored of it well before the end.
but it did stretch it and add a lot of filler
For the hobbit yes, but not really for the trilogy
is there really anything of worth that’s not really been told in the films via flashback or through a lot of storytelling in the movies already?
Lack of material is not the problem. The question is will it be any good as TV? The only person I know who made sense of the silmarillion took notes, and then still had to reread bits. It is going to be tricky to pull off. I hope it works.
The hobbit films were silly though
Big fan base = guaranteed profit. Even if it's turd plenty will still tune in because of the Tolkien thing or because they love the whole swords and sorcery thing regardless of how it's done.
I must admit, I watched LOTR trilogy before reading the book, and I found the book really heavy going with the older style of language and loads of poems and crap, but some people love that, and I do to an extent, as it really fleshes out the whole universe he was painting.
I couldn't cope with the hobbit films, far too basic and childish for me, the LOTR trillogy struck a good balance. Christ, they could make an entire film about Sams Pony if they wanted, and the pony was only in the film for about 30 seconds.
I read the Hobbit first and enjoyed it. Then I went onto LOTR. I finished it (on principle) but tbh I got thoroughly bored of it well before the end.
I wonder how many people who come to the books as adults actually like them? I read LotR and the Hobbit as a kid and still dip into the former from time to time but that's mostly nostalgia rather than the merits of the writing.
Big fan base = guaranteed profit. Even if it’s turd plenty will still tune in because of the Tolkien thing
Also this, see also star wars, Marvel and DC movies, churning out any old trash as they know it will turn a profit.
flogging the silmarillion
Yes, as written it’s dull. Gold or not as is, there are a huge amount of stories in there that already have a good chunk of the heavy lifting done in terms of getting people to watch them so you can see the commercial interest.
"Juss you howuld on mister frodo, juss another three hours of you whining and my pleading and then the nice people in the audience can go and demand their money back, mister frodo"
the books a good
hmmmm. I’ve always found Tolkien to be a wee bit small C and pompous. There’s definitely a good tale in there somewhere though.
the main problem with LOTR as I see it is that since it's basically the archetype for all Dungeons & Dragons style fantasy stuff, it unfortunately comes across as very cliched and basic these days!
They're going to have to go very off-piste to avoid another Peter Jackson style turdy-bore-fest! Still, they've been shown how well things can be done these days with GOT - if it's half as good as that was (at first!) then'll I watch & probably enjoy it!
$1Bn though! Hell of an investment to recoup!
yep, somehow it became cool to be a nerd hence they are monetising the shit out of all this stuff, even though it's 99% garbage 🤣Also this, see also star wars, Marvel and DC movies, churning out any old trash as they know it will turn a profit.
I prefer the LotR films to the books and I’ve read them all about six times. The films trim all the shite bits and singing. The Hobbit films can get in the sea though. We don’t talk about thems do we precious
I wish someone would turn Joe Abercrombie’s First Law books in to a series
the main problem with LOTR as I see it is that since it’s basically the archetype for all Dungeons & Dragons style fantasy stuff, it unfortunately comes across as very cliched and basic these days!
They’re going to have to go very off-piste to avoid another Peter Jackson style turdy-bore-fest! Still, they’ve been shown how well things can be done these days with GOT – if it’s half as good as that was (at first!) then’ll I watch & probably enjoy it!
$1Bn though! Hell of an investment to recoup!
hmm, if they do it in a more gritty adult style, like LOTR on steroids, it will be a winner.
If they do it Hobbit style, like the childrens story it was...it will be guff, but the kids might love it.
Any new film or series will do best to cater for both crowds.
Because it is the lord of all trilogies. IMO anyway.
"There's only one Return okay, and it aint of the king"
the trilogy was nice, but it did stretch it and add a lot of filler
For all the near 12 hour running time of the extended trilogy there's a fair bit missed out. The Hobbit films though - total piss-take.
3 or 4 times I tried to read the first book and the furthest I got was page 100.
Even speaking as a fan of the trilogy I can't blame you. I revisited Fellowship recently and it's a desperately slow beginning, and written in a Hobbity childrens book style he doesn't shake off until they're approaching Moria.
You have to remember, it was hugely influential. Tolkien created a lot of this stuff, our modern-day image of elves and dwarves etc come directly from his work.
Tolkien created a oretty cool world, and it’s a shame that most of it is pretty hard to read, Hobbit and LOTR trilogy aside.
The Hobbit is an easy read as a kid perhaps, but it's horsework as an adult.
As bad as the JK Rowling universe, winner of Debbie McGee award for milking a small magician.
🤣🤣
You win the Internet, go home.
I think you need to judge them in context somewhat.
The books are a bit pompous, but remember the Hobbit is not that far off being written a hundred years ago.
As for the films, back in 2001 the FOTR was like nothing else that had been made. It’s a great adaptation, and created a genre.
Sadly, IMO they got the Hobbit wrong. It was a kids book - it should have been a pair of kids films I think. 2 x 2 and a half hours, with most of the ‘extra’ material left out.
What we got was three long, boring, confusing films that got worse as you went through.
Sadly.
I’m ambivalent about the Amazon series, I might try and watch. I might not try too hard!
I’m ambivalent about the Amazon series, I might try and watch. I might not try too hard!
Pretty much my thoughts, if they do it well it could be epic. If it's a lazy spin off, it will be, well, just that.
Like that mandalorian star wars spin off crap ..its just a soap opera with people in star wars costumes, utterly boring.
BBC piece on the subject and the teaser trailer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60373159
not sure about that… it borrows heavily from Star Wars (as SW did from the LOTR books!) and is also very reminiscent of fantasy adventure films like Jason & the Argonauts. The only really innovative thing was the huge amount of money they threw at it, and the (now dated) special effects. It was a great cinema film for sure, but the novelty had worn off for me by the last one!As for the films, back in 2001 the FOTR was like nothing else that had been made.
I think Tolkien will be better in a series form better than film so the characters can be properly developed. Looking forward to it
a few of the scenes in that trailer look [i]really[/i] computer game-y 😬BBC piece on the subject and the teaser trailer.
3 or 4 times I tried to read the first book and the furthest I got was page 100.
Yep, the first half of the first book is boring as ****. You can pretty much skip all the way to the bit where Tom Bombadil tells the hobbits how to get to the Prancing Pony at Bree and start there. I get the impression that the publishers asked for some copy to see how things were going, and were less than happy, as the action most definitely picks up it's skirts and breaks into a gentle jog.
I read the books when I was about 12, and really enjoyed them. This was decades before Game of Thrones was written let alone on the TV. I have never read the hobbit.
I found the films a mixture of stunning visuals and exasperating skimming over some bits that I felt were quite essential for adding orcs and more orcs, oh and let’s have just a few more just in case…. I was nearly asked to leave the second film in the cinema because I started laughing at the battle of Helm’s Deep.
I won’t be watching the new series
I think Tolkien will be better in a series form better than film so the characters can be properly developed. Looking forward to it
I agree but there will need to be some high quality writing and believable dialogue to achieve that. That's a far harder thing to get right that the effects.
I think Tolkien will be better in a series form better than film so the characters can be properly developed. Looking forward to it
yeah that's what game of thrones did well, they didn't try to cram hundreds of hours of story into 3 long films. Aside from the last season which is universaly called a total car crash.
Peter Jackson did a really good job on LOTR, all been said, but not so much on the hobbit.
yeah that’s what game of thrones did well, they didn’t try to cram hundreds of hours of story into 3 long films. Aside from the last season which is universaly called a total car crash.
Seasons 1-7: sex, murder, intrigue, double dealing, duplicity, dragons and sex.
Season 8: Look! Zombies!
Shark jumped.
If you think LoR is hard work to read try the Silmarillion written posthumously by his son.
there will need to be some high quality writing and believable dialogue
This is where most spin off series' fall down, they rely on pre-existing fans to bring them over the profit line, or they diverge it all to chase that line, it's not so much about bringing a good film/tv series forward, it's about ratings and profit, which don't nessesarily equate to good story telling.
like the film/tv version of clickbait.
I always associate those films with bad CGI. Nowt worse than bad CGI, so I always avoided them. Read the book/s as a kid though and loved it,
Caught the last Harry Potter on the telly recently and that looked amazing. So CGI is getting better!
Why is LOTR so popular? Umm, one of the most well known fantasy books like, ever. And the screen adaptations will make money forever.
This is where most spin off series’ fall down,
Yeah, I'm not hopeful.