Someone upthread said that the parties have access to voter records. Is that true? I voted tactically for the greens. Just noticed that the local green candidate has popped up to the top of my Facebook ‘people you might know’ list.
Makes you think…
They can get an annotated register which tells them who voted, but not how they voted.
They have records of what voters tell them on the doorstep. That’s why they ask you.
We now have a Green district council, it will be interesting to se how they get on.
So you are happy with labour following a course that makes a majority very unlikely?
Well firstly I think labour's EU policy is the only way they will ever gain a majority. 2019 gave us all the evidence we need to see that, and brexit is still a live issue (thanks to remainers who won't accept reality) so labour don't have the luxury of ignoring it. Secondly, even if you were right (you're not), I don't really have a problem with labour not having an outright majority. Given Starmer's propensity to bin almost all progressive policies in favour of tory austerity economics, I reckon some lib dems and/or greens pulling him back to the centre would be a good thing.
TBH despite my dislike of the lib dems, Starmer has swung so far to the right that I'd take Ed Davey over him any day.
brexit is still a live issue (thanks to remainers who won’t accept reality)
🤣
Brexit isn't even finished as a process yet. Uk still has to implement customs controls properly
brexit is still a live issue (thanks to remainers who won’t accept reality)
Yep, that’s the only reason it’s still a live issue, incisive as ever.
The problem with Brexit is that the process divided the country.
No sane politician wants to take the country through all that shit again even if rejoining is a good idea.
The UK will just have to do the best with the cards it holds.
Spot on Dangerousbeans.
(Although it was damn obvious at the time and I could see Corbyn simply not being able to reconcile it.)
The UK will just have to do the best with the cards it holds.
Yep - we are sat there with a 2, 4 and 6
Yep – we are sat there with a 2, 4 and 6
And the other players at the table know it. 🤦
Yep – we are sat there with a 2, 4 and 6
I know but that's where we are.
I was one of the most vocal remainers out there, Brexit cost my eldest son his PhD being fully funded with an attached paid research post.
The country will have to make the best of it and we will have to do the best we can within it.
I very much look after me and mine nowadays; that was probably my most valuable lesson from the Brexit process.
It's good to see the tories take a battering, but even better to see the lost tory votes were split between Labour, Lib dems and greens about 40/30/30 respectivley.
Make no mistake, this wasn't a pro-labour result, it was an anti-tory result.
We can hope, hopefully for a hung parliament come GE with Labour forced into coalition or some sort of more mature power sharing agreement with the Dems or Greens, or even both.
Aside from reversing brexit we desperatley need PR.
Youll never get that with the two party system, it suits both Labour and the tories too much, and that's dangerous.
The country will have to make the best of it and we will have to do the best we can within it.
this is not the truth which is why pro EU parties did better than brexiteer parties in the local electionsand the polling
The country will have to make the best of it and we will have to do the best we can within it.
If you mean by steadily reversing it, bit by bit, then perhaps. But surely it would be better to stop being whoppers, admit the fail and try to sort it in a one-r.
Unless you think that remaining in a permanent state of economically damaging limbo to avoid upsetting the sensibilities of Leavers is the way of a grownup country?
this is not the truth which is why pro EU parties did better than brexiteer parties in the local electionsand the polling
Not really true, Labour are a pro-brexit party and they did pretty well.
which is why pro EU parties did better than brexiteer parties in the local electionsand the polling
Are you still pumping out this bollocks that last week's local elections was all about brexit?!? 🤣😂🤣
The UK will just have to do the best with the cards it holds.
No.. that's a bit like telling Americans that abortion is now illegal so they just have to accept it and make the best of it.
And It's legal for a 16Yo to buy an assault rifle, get over it!
Nope, nope, nope.
Are you still pumping out this bollocks that last week’s local elections was all about brexit?!?
Try reading what I actually wrote
Not really true, Labour are a pro-brexit party and they did pretty well.
they didn't. tories in disarray losing 1000 seats and labour does not even pick up half of them/
the pro EU parties lib demand Green did much better with a m,uch larger % of sets gained to seats previously held
Its a meh result for labour. they should and could have done so much better
Try reading what I actually wrote
I copied and pasted what you "actually wrote"!
Here it is again:
which is why pro EU parties did better than brexiteer parties in the local electionsand the polling
You are very clearly saying that where a party stands on brexit affected the local election results.
Most reasonable people know that is nonsense, including the leader of the LibDems Ed Davey:
But what about Labour? Doesn’t the party’s refusal to countenance rejoining the European single market and reinstating free movement provide an opening for the Lib Dems? Davey counters that the UK’s relationship with Europe isn’t at the forefront of voters’ minds. “When I’m on the doorstep, people don’t talk about the House of Lords; they don’t talk about Brexit. What they’re talking about is the health service,” he said. “Voters are not blaming Brexit. What they talk about is the Tories’ incompetent policies.”
Those are the words of the leader of the largest "pro EU" party.
No.. that’s a bit like telling Americans that abortion is now illegal so they just have to accept it and make the best of it.
And It’s legal for a 16Yo to buy an assault rifle, get over it!
Nope, nope, nope.
Tell me tomorrow that we've rejoined and I'll be over the moon.
However, in my opinion, the subject is still a poisoned chalice for the political class so we will, at least for the time being, get on with it.
All I can do is the best for me and mine, even if the country, and many of it's citizens are getting poorer.
Ernie - you finnaly read it!
You are very clearly saying that where a party stands on brexit affected the local election results.
Correct. Its clearly did
I did not say
that last week’s local elections was all about brexit?!?
You are so blinded by being an enthusastic brexiteer that you cannot see what is in front of your face
dangerousbeans: I’ve heard this before, perhaps it was you? That “it’s just about me and mine now, since brexit”. Just wondering what altruistic deeds you were doing for your country/community etc before brexit which you have now stopped?
Don’t take it the wrong way, just genuinely interested to know.
pro EU parties did better than brexiteer parties in the local electionsand the polling
It's just nonsense. If you believe that Labour is a Brexiteer party (as you do), then Brexiteer parties picked up just under 70% of the vote.
The Lib Dem and Green gains are noticeable - but it's off the back of the Greens being a microparty and Lib Dems having been wiped out. They're starting from such a low base that any gain seems dramatic.
Meanwhile...
No sane politician wants to take the country through all that shit again
On the contrary, I think Sunak would be ecstatic if the next election were a Brexit election. As TJ's poll results linked above mention, even the Brexiteers who think Brexit has led to a decrease in living standards think it was a good idea. The Tory base still loves Brexit. And at the last Brexit GE, Labour shot itself in each foot, and the Lib Dems nuked themselves into megaobscurity. Another Brexit GE sounds great to Rishi!
All I can do is the best for me and mine, even if the country, and many of it’s citizens are getting poorer.
Which is a very Tory thing to say.
Brexit will be a big issue at the next election no matter how much the brexiteer parties do not want it to be. Plaid Greens and SNP will make it so even if lib dems do not join them
You really like dancing on the head of a pin TJ. You are clearly saying that the defining factor in Thursday's local elections was brexit.
Blinded by your total obsession with brexit you cannot see the nonsense in that claim. However the leader of the LibDems certainly can, in fact he makes the very point that voters aren't interested in talking about brexit it is other issues which concern them.
Is this because Ed Davey is such an enthusastic brexiteer that he cannot see what is in front of his face?
Read it again, although you probably didn't even bother previously as it obviously doesn't fit comfortably into your preferred narrative:
"When I’m on the doorstep, people don’t talk about the House of Lords; they don’t talk about Brexit. What they’re talking about is the health service,” he said. “Voters are not blaming Brexit. What they talk about is the Tories’ incompetent policies.”
Someone upthread said that the parties have access to voter records. Is that true?
Nope. At least not how you voted.
They have access to the electoral roll.
They can then add their own information which is part of the idea behind going door to door. Its not just to try and persuade you to vote for them but also record that "fact".
Then on election day they may (personally I have only ever seen this once but then I have always lived in safe seats so not sure why they bothered that time) have volunteers called tellers outside the voting station who ask you for your name and address. As the day progresses they can check who has voted and send volunteers round to encourage you to vote.
The chances of them sending the person to remind you may depend on whether your previous response on the doorstep was "I would vote for Satan if he was the best candidate to defeat you" or "yes I love you".
So, if we accept that rufty-tufty, bring back the birch, straight-talking Leavers can't be upset at having their epic fail pointed out to them...
How long are we expecting this Basil Fawlty-esque "don't mention the Brexit" phase to last? 10 years? 20?
It's a bit unfair to compare Ed Davey with Basil Fawlty just because he claims that “Voters are not blaming Brexit" Danny.
Just wondering what altruistic deeds you were doing for your country/community etc before brexit which you have now stopped?
I haven't stopped doing anything I did before, I consider my community part of me and mine, that includes adults with learning disabilities which is my day job.
Admittedly it's only a couple of hours a week now, but I am getting on in years.
The national situation is out of my hands, there's nothing I can do but look after me and mine.
It’s a bit unfair to compare Ed Davey with Basil Fawlty just because he claims that “Voters are not blaming Brexit”
I meant in general - as well you know.
How long before it will be considered acceptable to risk upsetting those hard as nails, tell-it-like-it-is, Leavers by telling them the truth?
If it is a conscious strategy to avoid any mention then surely it has to have an end point.
Or are we seriously saying we are going to wave bye bye to 5.5%+ of our GDP indefinitely? Because the people who are, apparently, absolutely not snowflakes can't cope with being shown the consequences of their actions?
It's a straight question - just say "I don't know" if you need.
I don't know Danny, perhaps brexit will be a major issue next general election. I suspect probably not but who knows?
How long before it will be considered acceptable to risk upsetting those hard as nails, tell-it-like-it-is, Leavers by telling them the truth?
What’s the point of telling people what they’re absolutely determined not to hear?
It’s not like all this wasn’t predicted, is it?
As a politician you’d have to be absolutely out of your mind to reopen the whole Brexit debate, as (despite what TJ thinks) there’s little or nothing to be gained by doing so.
People have more pressing concerns than re-fighting yesterday’s idealogical war
We’re out of the EU. I don’t like that fact any more than Uncle Jezza but that’s where we are
The best we can hope for is a Labour government that sees cooperation with our neighbours as preferable to confrontation
The brexit debate has never closed and the pro EU parties willmake it a debating point at the next GE
there is no point sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalalalalalalala and pretending its not happening
We haven't even finished leaving yet!
Don't know why you're answering two people at once...?
So, it might organically become a major issue just so long as those of us who can see the damage keep schtum?
Well that's really cleared thing up. I'm not sure it is how debate and politics normally work, but I guess everything has changed now. 🤷♂️
What’s the point of telling people what they’re absolutely determined not to hear?
You need to be very careful where the logical extension of that argument leads.
What’s the point of telling people what they’re absolutely determined not to hear?
Will you be extending that argument to climate change, for example?
"The Brexit debate has never closed..." - there is only debate about Brexit in the same way there is debate about decolonisation or closing the coal mines. They are all historical facts.
If there is a debate, it is about whether the UK should rejoin the EU, on what terms, and how soon. And the second and third issues really depend on how our 27 annoyed neighbours feel about the issue. I strongly suspect they'd like to see the UK with its shit together before speaking to us again, rather than banging on the pub door with a raging hangover asking to be let back in at 9am.
there is no point sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalalalalalalala
So why are you doing it TJ?
The leader of the largest pro-EU says that when he speaks to people on their doorsteps they aren't talking about brexit, so for that reason he wants to concentrate on other issues.
Why are you pretending that brexit is a hot talking topic which was central to last week's local elections results?
Take your fingers out of your lugholes and listen to the main pro-EU party.
[politecamera action. Its not historical. We haven't even finished leaving yet!
61% rejoin 39% stay out
Labour is telling the rejoiners they are wrong and are fighting against public opinion which is only moving one way - to rejoin
Plaid, Greens and SNP have never stopped saying its wrong and we need to rejoin ASAP and will make sure the brexiteers cannot hide fromthe results of what they have done
