Lib Dems are not the main pro EU party. SNP is
61% to 39% in favour of rejoin UK wide
Itss labourt and the brexiteers that are refusing to listento the public who have seen thru the brexit charade
If there is a debate, it is about whether the UK should rejoin the EU, on what terms, and how soon.
Verboten. Apparently. 🤷♂️
I'm looking forward the implementation of this new form of politics - maybe we can see how it works with Israel and Palestine. Or abortion in the US. Or gun control with the NRA in the US.
It will be great.
The LibDems got two and a half million more votes than the SNP. But keep your fingers in your ears and ignore that awkward fact.
Anyway back OT and the local elections, it would appear that one council still hasn't declared, I have no idea which one it is :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/results
Edit : I didn't read the link properly:
The final council, Redcar and Cleveland, will resume counting on Tuesday 9 May.
UKIP had two council seats on Redcar and Cleveland if they have lost those it takes their total loses to 27 with no wins.
Redcar and Cleveland
Yeah thanks.
I’m looking forward the implementation of this new form of politics – maybe we can see how it works with Israel and Palestine.
In this analogy, you are the PFLP, sitting in Damascus and "debating" Israel's existence. And meanwhile in Jerusalem....
^^^
So, presumably, the Palestinians just have to shut up because the Israelis don't want to hear it?
Sounds great, I wonder why they haven't tried it up until now. 🤔
Plaid, Greens and SNP have never stopped saying its wrong...
Plaid Cymru is the third most important party...in the Senedd! 🤣 These three parties put together have a 9% poll rating in this country.
https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/
So, presumably, the Palestinians just have to shut up because the Israelis don’t want to hear it?
No, on the contrary: the first step toward a Palestinian state is recognising that 1948 happened and there is no way of going back to the status quo ante. Or you can sit in Damascus in glorious denial.
SNP 45 seats. Lb dems 14
SNP 45 seats. Lb dems 14
Have you noticed that SNP votes are concentrated in one area of the UK whilst the LibDems have millions more votes throughout the UK?
The Labour Party has more MPs just in London than the SNP has in the whole of Scotland, just to put a perspective on the issue.
Yep – we are sat there with a 2, 4 and 6
It's worse than that. We hold Mr Bun the baker, the score card for poker, Miss Scarlet and a Dry Cleaning ticket.
SNP 45 seats. Lb dems 14
A variation on the Edinburgh Defence?
The best we can hope for is a Labour government that sees cooperation with our neighbours as preferable to confrontation
Hahah... hahaha...hahahah....
The labour party are just as anti- EU, racist and nationlistic as the Tories. Moreover, they are very happy being a shadow government, it's a comfortable space for them to exist in with FPTP, whilst pretending to be an alternative to the conservative pary... but being very carefull not to try too much.
Labour runing for government is a bit like Spud from trainspotting going to his mandatory job interview.
They have to look like they are trying, so they don't lose money, but not try so hard they actually get the job.
A wee dab of speed is just the ticket, eh?
But surely it would be better to stop being whoppers, admit the fail and try to sort it in a one-r.
Who would be responsible for trying to sort it out? Why haven't they?
Who would be responsible for trying to sort it out?
Not the UK government, and apparently not the main opposition either.
It’s a bit unfair to compare Ed Davey with Basil Fawlty just because he claims that “Voters are not blaming Brexit” Danny.
Ed Davey is obviously a nazi.
SNP 45 seats. Lb dems 14
Because of FPTP. I thought you were in favour of electoral reform?
Not the UK government
Why not?
Why not?
It was a rhetorical statement, maybe I should have done it in italic or put an emoji after it to make my sentiment more clear...
I'll try again...
Not the UK government(lol), and apparently not the main opposition either. 😉
“When I’m on the doorstep, people don’t talk about the House of Lords; they don’t talk about Brexit. What they’re talking about is the health service,” he said. “Voters are not blaming Brexit. What they talk about is the Tories’ incompetent policies.”
Assuming this to be both true and fair (ie, he wasn't going door-knocking asking leading questions about the NHS, say),
I expect that the vast majority of the electorate have Brexit Fatigue. This has been going on for several years now. Regardless of whether they're pro- or anti- anything, a lot of people are sick of it.
Out of those that still care, the remainers have been hearing "we won you lost shut up and get over it" for years and many are resigned to their fate; it's done, we left. One thing that the Leave evangelists were really good at was dressing up any challenge as an assault on democracy. OTOH the leavers really, really would like it for people to stop talking about it for, oh, I don't know, some unfathomable reason I cannot possibly imagine so I'll leave as an exercise for the reader to conclude.
And before anyone reaches for the [citation needed] button in reply, this is purely speculation on my part.
What's going on with Redcar, anyone know?
What’s going on with Redcar, anyone know?
It's basically scotland, so no one in england gives a shit, I guess is what Labour and the conservatives are thinking.
That's probably a fair assessment, but doesn't really explain why it requires three recounts. Well, a count and two recounts.
Unless they are having a count party? that would explain a lot....
As a viable alternative to the Tories, I was actually considering voting Labour, (Wiltshire didn’t have any elections this time), but with Starmer’s absolute refusal to behave like an opposition party leader and say, “y’know what, I do believe the Tories were wrong with the whole Brexit bit of a mess, and yes, there are a shit-ton of really important issues to deal with, but there’s nothing wrong with starting the conversation with the rest of the EU and getting the ball rolling”, I’m not inclined to. If we had had local elections, I’d have put that point across as forcefully as I could. I’d have been pushing on an open door with the Libs, and they might well have got a bunch of extra seats - around here, it’s always been a tussle between them and the Tories.
If you want a full explanation of why what the Lib-Dems say is irrelevant, see the Brexit thread. TLDR; Maybe they are pro-EU but if they get given a sniff of power they'll quickly abandon that stance so who cares what they say now?
Anyway, SNP are the biggest pro-EU party in Westminster. Dunno why people are trying to say they aren't.
Edit: Just realised that Davey is trying to cosy up to Starmer already, hence trying to say 'Well, people don't really care that much about the EU.'
I guess that's an improvement on just flat out lying to get elected and then going back on your own red lines for a sniff at the big boy table.
Anyway, SNP are the biggest pro-EU party in Westminster. Dunno why people are trying to say they aren’t.
They haven't. The SNP is far less popular than the lib dems in terms of votes, and has more MPs because of a) our electoral system, and b) only contesting a small number of seats.
They haven’t. The SNP is far less popular than the lib dems in terms of votes,
Well, since we're getting into the minutia of definitions, the SNP are actually the most popular party in the UK in terms of popular vote with 45%.
Based on the seats they contested, of course.
It's a pointless definition but arguing whether the Lib-Dems would be more or less popular if the UK had another voting system is equally pointless.
The Lib-Dems are a principle and policy vacuum and pretty much anything they say can be safely ignored as they will also ignore it if someone dangles a sniff of power in front of their noses.
Well, since we’re getting into the minutia of definitions, the SNP are actually the most popular party in the UK in terms of popular vote with 45%.
Based on the seats they contested, of course.
We were talking about the total number of votes they attract, which is small. Which you know perfectly well.
It’s a pointless definition but arguing whether the Lib-Dems would be more or less popular if the UK had another voting system is equally pointless.
I haven't. Stop making things up.
The Lib-Dems are a principle and policy vacuum and pretty much anything they say can be safely ignored as they will also ignore it if someone dangles a sniff of power in front of their noses.
That was certainly true last time. What makes you think the SNP would be different?
We were talking about the total number of votes they attract, which is small. Which you know perfectly well.
Only because they don't stand in many seats. Which you know perfectly well.
I haven’t. Stop making things up.
I'm not making things up. It really is a pointless definition and a pointless argument.
That was certainly true last time. What makes you think the SNP would be different?
Please don't make me repeat the same arguments all over again on every politics thread on STW. Been doing this for days on the Brexit thread, as I said earlier. However, here's another TLDR;
The SNP have a central tenet. The Lib-Dems don't. And they don't even have the excuse of potentially being the biggest party (no matter what Jo Swinson says).
They are a pointless non-entity and a stain on politics. Ask me again if they ever figure out something to stand for.
Only because they don’t stand in many seats. Which you know perfectly well.
Where they are popular. Perhaps Labour should only stand in London, they'd still have more MPs than the SNP. How about the Greens only stand in Brighton?
I’m not making things up. It really is a pointless definition and a pointless argument.
Stop doing it then.
The SNP have a central tenet
Pointless comment when it hasn't been tested.
Pointless comment when it hasn’t been tested.
Yes, and if they do decide to go back on independence commitments then I shall happily put them in the same class as the Lib-Dems and never consider voting for them again.
They will have proved themselves to be a principle and policy vacuum whose main concern is getting themselves some nice government jobs.
Just like the Lib-Dems.
So I can talk about Rejoin as long as I recognise that Remain is no longer possible?
You're developing some weird persecution complex where you're suggesting that it's "verboten" for you to talk about Remain or that someone is preventing you from trying to reopen the Brexit referendum. That's total fantasy, as the many, many pages of wibbling on both sides show. What is happening is that other posters are sharing their opinion on why doing what you suggest is bad politics and denying reality.
Just like the Lib-Dems.
Albeit far less popular.
the SNP are actually the most popular party in the UK in terms of popular vote with 45%.
Based on the seats they contested, of course.
That is such a weird argument..... the SNP are the most popular party in the UK because they get less than 50% support in less than 10% of the UK parliamentary constituencies - in the other 90% they have no support at all!
But if you really believe that the SNP enjoys such huge popularity in the UK the solution of how to achieve independence is obvious - stand in every UK parliamentary seat and after the next general election the SNP majority government can declare an independent Scotland.
Albeit far less popular.
Or far more popular.
I thought you said you didn't want to talk about pointless definitions?
That is such a weird argument…..
No, I said pointless argument.
That you guys seem to be obsessed with...
What we are seeing is the utter failure of a polarising 2 party FPTP system, wher3 parties are so broad they can never really represent anyone’s views. I’m somewhere between Labour/LD/Green.
Most of all though I want the tortes out and I will vote to facilitate that.
No, I said pointless argument.
That you guys seem to be obsessed with…
Well it's an argument that you made.
I wouldn't describe myself as being obsessed by it but I do find it quite fascinating that anyone should claim that the SNP is "the most popular party in the UK in terms of popular vote" based on how well they do in less than 10% of the UK's parliamentary seats.
Well it’s an argument that you made
No, you're the one who tried to make the argument that what Davey had to say was relevant and introduced some dubious electoral arithmetic to prove that we should listen to him.
Yes, my 'most popular party' argument was ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as yours.
I expect that the vast majority of the electorate have Brexit Fatigue. This has been going on for several years now. Regardless of whether they’re pro- or anti- anything, a lot of people are sick of it.
Sick enough to wave bye-bye to 5.5%+ of our GDP just to avoid mentioning it?
Apparently this BH is the big push to get us all to do voluntary work in our local areas in the name of Charlie Boy. I guess they're trying to make a head start as the decline of public services really starts to gain pace.
That 5.5% would sure come in handy.
