[Closed] Lets talk about: Camper Vans

I got my Transit with about 100k on the clock and ran it for another 30k, but while it's mechanically ok, rust has killed it. I liked driving it.

Currently looking for a replacement.

What I have learned? Transits rust while you sleep...

People say theres a massive premium for VW vans but compare a 15 year old T4 with a 15 year old Transit and you'll see why old VW vans still command decent prices.

That said, we looked at getting a T5 last year and getting it converted into a proper camper van and our budget went from £10k'ish up to £25k and then we stopped looking as it was getting silly.

We said yesterday though, if we were going to do it we'd want to run a car as a daily as well so we'd get a 'proper' camper van as you seem to get a load more space for a load less cash...

but compare a 15 year old T4 with a 15 year old Transit and you'll see why old VW vans still command decent prices.

People have a love, an affinity, will spend money on a T4 etc to look its best. A Transit is seen as commercial, a commodity to flog to death working hard.

Don't be a sheep, get a Toyota Hiace D4D post 2002, you want have any of the problems associated with VW/Ford/Merc/Vauxhall etc. Will go on forever. Disabled converted ones are handy as have the rear windows and often removeable seats, easy camper conversion.

You need a Mazda Bongo! We picked ours up with a conversion for about £3K!
[img] [/img]

http://www.bongofury.co.uk/

for all your questions

...we're about to advertise our pride and joy....might fit the bill!

I don't want this to become an advertorial!!...so, will keep the bio brief...

In short, it's never missed a beat and been wonderful to us...we never intended selling it...infact, baby no.1 fitted in just about....the unplanned arrival of baby. no.2 means that we've had to move to the Kombi world!

It's a 2006 56 Nissan Primastar 2.0 Dci ... fully, professionally converted for biking duties!

It's a really really good piece of work....SWB but designed for living in!

I designed/spec'd it (all sterling power products (look them up), PS2, integrated flatscreen TV, SMEV hob/sink, premium audio, drop-down bed ... list goes on.

The mileage is going to put people off/effect sales price (my plan was always to keep until death, replacing the engine as needed) ..

I purchased the van 4 years ago, 1 light parcel fleet owner (94k miles)...I purchased on condition/wear...(I think it had been going around the M25 non-stop...as felt as tight as a new vehicle).

We've done 75k in 4 years (around Europe 4 times) - plus every summer w'end etc. In that time, it's had 2 tyres, services every 10k miles, brake discs/pads and that's it! Oh, the clutch went last July on the way up to Sauze ... !!

Yet to clean/take photos or really think about the price. Total conversation to us was cir. £16k.....and the van is still pretty much immaculate....but 170k miles! So, suspect that we'll be looking at the £5 - £6k mark.

Trying to take an objective viewpoint - you need to see the van/the conversion etc to appreciate the value...as the owner/an automotive engineer I'd buy it for £5k in a heartbeat and if the engine ever goes then budget to replace with the later gen 115PS ...

I'd love a Hi-Ace. 🙂

OP- why not a Vauxhall Vivaro or Traffic?

I had a Hiace camper for a (short) while. Factory conversion and well appointed (air con, gas central heating, 4 birth). It was a nice camper but not something you would want to drive everyday. I ended up selling it because I really needed a car day-to-day (didn't think it through!).

If I could have afforded another car I would have kept the van as well.

Are the Toyotas that much better than a T5? Just looking at the ones available on Autotrader, it's impossible to get a comparative idea of size of them both.

I can see they are cheaper, but if I want to sell the idea of a van to my wife, it is going to have to be a good quality base van. If nothing else than to get the idea of a Talbot Express out of her head...

Isn't a Hi-Ace much smaller than a T5 etc though?

+1 for a Bongo though. A mate bought one on a bit of a whim for going orienteering etc and its ace.

it's impossible to get a comparative idea of size of them both

This is a good resource for comparing sizes (of vans)

http://www.anchorvans.co.uk/specifications/

I've just been through the van buying what size process, and got some good info from there. Ended up with a lwb T5 kombi.

I did quite fancy a Transit, but the size I wanted would be a mwb lr in a Transit. Relatively rare. Then throw in other wants (decent towing capacity so not the 280 with 750kg, 120+bhp, any colour other than white) and we're in rocking horse dung territory.

erring towards a SWB Tourneo

If you're looking at swb Transits and [s]you[/s] your missus can stand the colour have you considered the ex-RAC Transits? I might have ended up with one had they been mwb.

We had a subbie who despised his vivaro/traffic. Could have been a Friday production though. Bongo is a strong Contendor, but might be a bit small? Thanks for the offer Luca, but we would be going for a more utilitarian build with more space for mucky bikes than anything else. Quite fancy the conversion project myself too. We have a ducato at work, which still runs great at 120k. Cheap and massive...? Would probably be an only vehicle too, hopefully would encourage me to ride to work more often.

Hiace's can be had in SWB or LWB, about the same size as Transporter, and don't break down and about 25-40% cheaper than the same age VW. The older non-turbo ones are a bit sluggish as are the 88 and 95 versions, rarer but if you can find a 102bhp 2002-2005 or post 2006 120bhp version they go much better, you won't break the land speed record but go well up hills loaded and you can overtake stuff. Shame they stopped making them in 2012. Bit wary of the new Proace replacement, a Peugeot/Citroen in disguise.
Bongos are at an age now I'd personally be reluctant unless it really does have a good service history, some still at silly prices. Toyota Granvias too, lovely to drive and Toyota reliability but pretty thirsty as 3 litre autos often with 4wd, plus also getting on a bit now. Pain getting the back seats out too if you need carry big things. I still can't believe how much some dealers ask for imported jap campers/MPV's, much rather get a younger UK van cheaper and do what I want.
One last one, Hyundai iLoad & crew vans, worth a look too.

I have a 2002 ex-disabled conversion Hi-Ace swb. Sizewise not dissimilar to a swb T4/5, maybe a bit narrower. They're few and far between compared to T4/5s but can be picked up cheaper. Well looked after they can be good for 200,000+ and are reasonably cheap to maintain. The big downside compared to VW if you want to build a day van/camper is that there is next to nothing on the market to convert them. For a VW you have so many options, for the Hi-Ace you'll be hard pushed to find anything.

we are erring towards a SWB Tourneo

What I have learned? Transits rust while you sleep...

This might be utter bobbins (because I think I read it in here) but I believe there is a difference - Tourneos get painted like a car (plenty of decent paint for an expected useful life of many years) whereas Transits are painted like a van (more thinly / craply on the expectation that it's a van and will be worn out in three-five years anyway so doesn't need to keep rust at bay longer than that).

Like I say, this might not be true, but it was something I read...

Edlong- I have heard the same about transporters and caravelles, not sure how true it is though.

100k on a modern diesel van is not much depending on what its done. As in ex builders van it will be a bit tired to say the least. If ex RAC vans are floating around I'd seriously check them out. They will have been kept in great condition and I've never seen the RAC ragging around.

Just found a proper bargin tourneo. Already gone 3 days into the listing. Daayum! Still. Proper discussion and assessment of finances indicates project bus has a green light. The hunt is on.

my vivaro is currently being converted into a mountain bike day van thing by Vanguard in fort william -- here it is with holes where there was once metal.

[img] [/img]

As a camper/day van I think the Tourneo is probably a bit small.

The Vivara aka Primastar aka Trafic is the perfect size, still small enough to fit in a supermarket space yet big enough for a T4/T5 style conversion.

I'd echo the comments that T4's and T5's probably only avoid dying of rust (like Transits) due to their image and value justifying spending more on maintenance.

I think the perfect van would be a swb or mwb Fiat Ducato, they are extra wide so you can get a fixed double bed across the back (leaving space forward for kitchen/dining) and the underbed area will take two bikes so secure and out of sight. And still parkable in the supermarket.

That said, my van is 6 metres long and wider than most, I just park at the end of the car park and take four spaces, although it will squeeze into a tandem space if needs must.

Hmmm rust trolls. T4 11 years old and no problem with rust.
Just ask Olly what van do you own and why should I get one? It would make life easier.
If you heard it on a thread on STW its most likely rubbish. First hand experience is best. At least that's what my mates cousins brother Dave thinks he read on here 3.5 years ago.

Olly, I own an Iveco Daily. I wouldn't get one...its heavy, noisy and bumpy, but does its job of towing heavy stuff pretty well.

I drive Transits and Vivaro's at work, I'd prefer one as a camper over an Iveco. But top of the list would be the Ducato. All front wheel drives and not able to tow my trailer safely though.

lucabazooka - send me an email re the van

We have a Ducato at work, and its had 120k of VERY hard life. It doesnt lock and the doors dont close properly but the engine is tight as you could want. Really enjoy driving it (but it is very wide, even after 4 years of driving it, in my opinion)
It would be stored in front of the house, on street parking, so a MASSIVE van might be a bit antisocial. Having said that my work Duc is out front fairly often.
Also, if i got yet another peugeot (Boxer) it would annoy the snot out of my peers which is always good.

General consensus is as i expected: No one really makes a "bad" vehicle anymore, if we got a well looked after one we should be ok. Transporters are easy to sell as every man and his dog loves them, but equally you pay to get it in the first place.

rust - easily prevented with plenty of cans of Dinitrol and cleaning off excess dirt !!!

I had an ex aa t4 I bought at auction for £3.5k and converted it myself. What you do get with t4/5 s iscthatbthey truly can be an everyday driver. My misses drives ours as her main car (t5 now) and it fits nicely into a typical shop parking space/ multi storey.

T4 s just don't seem to rust. They are all galvanised and VW were pretty much over engineering at that time. Prob not so much now.

Think resale as well as you can punt a vwon for a lot more than said transit so you'll get your money back. I sold mine 5 yrs later with another 50k on for £8k with a seatbed/ sink/ hob/ carpeted/ fridge in it after building it all myself. 5 yrs of holidays and pretty much got my money back on it.

[img] [/img]

Never seen a rusty T4 .
More VW bull

VW Tax, some repaid on resale, shame they are small though.

Had a LWB Med High Tranny, bed, room for 6+ bikes under it if you dropped the front wheels and the BBQ, stove and tools. Lots of space up front. Paid £2500 for it with 150k on the clock, sold with 250k about 4 years later for £750 in under 2 mins on e-bay.

Loved it, conversion was rough and ready, all you need is underlay, closed cell foam, screws, ply and a circular saw!

another happy Bongo owner here.

Ours has a full leisure battery setup etc but is unconverted - we've a decent awning which helps with the practicalities of camping in it with two kids + dog. If there were two of you then a converted Bongo would be fine but they're on the small side. That said, ours - with both rows of back seats, 4WD and V6, is hugely practical for lugging crap around, day trips, people carrying and general family duties. Will fit in most height-restricted car-parks, is the same length as an E-Class estate and whilst thirsty has proven to be reliable thus far (sailed through her last MOT with no issues).

I think we paid about 6K from a dealer who imported it - have all the original auction paperwork etc too.

The thing with VW tax is, its voluntary, you don't have to pay it. Plenty of other options as highlighted above.

I don't understand why people get into such a froth about VW's andout how much better the alternatives are. Keep it under your hat if it's true then you'll be helping keep the prices down for your particular choice.

Some people want a VW (for various reasons), suck it up, pay the 'tax'. I did.

Another happy Mazda Friendee Bongo owner +1

Conversions look nice, but expensive and kill most of the day-to-day practicality, and with a removable camping module in rear, are not really necessary.

Seats slide on rails and can be moved/removed/reversed. Electric pop-top roof with memory foam mattress fine for sleeping. Lots of nice touches- electric blinds all round, soft-close electric side door etc. 4x4 great in snow and muddy wild campsites.

They are very good to drive- more like a big car than a van. Ebay and clubs fine for most spare parts.

Only downsides are that they are thirsty and the rear wheel arches rot. And a stupid name!

We paid about £4k 5 years ago, it has been massively well used (countless biking road trips, music festivals, removals, mobile kennels etc) very reliable and still worth £2k. Not as cool as a VW, but a tiny fraction of the "scene tax".

Let's face it. VW's are expensive because they are the best.

That seems to be the perception given the ridiculous amount that people are willing to pay for scabby T4's

Tut tut just because you haven't got one but really wish you had.
I thought mine was pretty cheap. However it will be scabby by the time I've finished with it.

We've got a 2006 ex-RAC Mercedes Vito that is the wife's main driver. It's on circa 120k miles and we've only had to replace some brake pads, tyres and a propshaft. There's not a spot of rust on it - even on some of the scratches that have gone through the top coat of paint. I've been converting it myself and we're nearly there. I love it - drives nicely, is ok on diesel, is SWB so fits in multi-storey's and normal Tesco-sized parking spaces etc. I also like the fact it's bright orange - everybody know's and waves to us now (probably helps that Mrs oliwb is a PE teacher at the local high school!). I like the fact that there are conversion parts freely available (unlike the transits etc), the running gear is very well made and put together and it was <£3k to buy with ~100k miles on the clock. I'd definitely get another one but would maybe hold out for a bigger engine and would go for a pop top as we now have a kid on the way! All the talk of them rusting terribly hasn't borne out in our one. Our friends had an older on W628 (old style) '53 I think that was like a sieve and eventually died because of it. The newer (post 2005/06) seem to be much better in the bodywork department. I've not done anything with ours, but will probably steam clean and underseal it this summer.

Oli.

Mates on his second Vito and loves them. Seem pretty nice from the passenger seat.

Marin - Member

Let's face it. VW's are expensive because they [s]are the best[/s] [b]perceive[/b] them to be the best, although this is as much about image as fact.

Camper Van Beethoven, yes a good band:

It's horses for courses:

Vito has sloping roof at the rear so very limited headroom
VW T5 is still a small van albeit mildly pretty
Bongo - great machine but is still very small and has a known coolant problem

If you're over 6ft then none of these are perfect unless you like being bent double or discomfort. Many rock'n'roll beds aren't that long and are narrow so given that you spend at least 50% of your time asleep in the van it makes no sense
Even then you can't really generalise as it's rare that 2 campers are identical unless they are stock xxxxxx conversions

Most people just say they have Van A, so Van B must be shit.

Here's a link you may find to be of interest:

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/van-conversions-and-the-cvmbc ]Possibly Interesting Link[/url]

I've got a VW California that I use as my daily driver, well when i drive that is. Fits in the garage, nice to drive, efficient as you can expect and swallows the family for holidays at the drop of a hat. It's a compromise, i doubt it will ever do a track day but equally I can't sleep in my 911! My wife wanted to hate it but is a total convert

Most people just say they have Van A, so Van B must be shit.

That applies to just about everything on STW though, not only vans.

Toyota Hiace's have always been nice but aren't they very thirsty compared to a T5?
T5 will do 40mpg
What does a Hiace do? If heard about 30??

Plus don't they still have the engine under the passenger seat which would restrict a captains chair? Or is that just older models (pre power van)?

Luca. Can you email me some more detail of the primastar please. Email in profile. Thanks

UK Hiaces have easy to access (under bonnet as opposed to seats) engine since about 1995. 40mpg possible if you drive sensibly but yes around 30 if you are heavier on the right foot. Run well on veg oil and even better (with improved mpg) on posh diesel like BP Ultimate (worth the extra few pence a litre).
I agree with comments about people having a tendency to slag off what they don't have, pretty much all suggested will do the job I reckon. After years of having different (make) vans I'm at a stage where I can't be arsed to spend loads of time working on them or worrying about minor impracticalities, looks/cool factor, just want something I know I can chuck loads of stuff in, will always start and can drive off anywhere with no worries. As someone else has said I'd better shut up now before prices start getting hiked if too many people know.

Haha as posted previously van a is best as I have one, van b is okish.
Still no idea what ftfy most means.

fixed that for you.

What do folks think about a Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar LWB with a second row of seats? I want to carry a small boat (2.4m long) and some bikes. D'you reckon there'd be space behind the seats to make a usable bed?

I think the load bay in a lwb vivaro factory factory double cab is about 7ft. I don't have the figures to hand that I compiled when trying to decide what vans would suit me.

Yes, you posted that excellent link to the Anchorvan site with dimensions on. It suggests the load length in the LWB Vivaro is 2815mm. I'm guessing 1000mm would be enough for another row of seats leaving enough for a 1800 bed. There's a van advertised locally that I haven't seen yet but it has two rather than three second row seats so allows a boat to be slotted in the space. Looks ideal really.

And I fancy doing something like this:

.html?sort=3&o=8

I'm just passing on my experience with my old t4. The white one in the pic looks like its been shot with a shotgun... Even when my lovely wife decided to muller a steel gate post with the side of ours it didn't breach the galvanising and had no rust despite having no paint for 3 years and spending a lot of its life by the sea.

Yep, prob VW t4 tax applies but it's just supply and demand isn't it. Demand is usually stimulated by something either being good or perceived as good. Perception is generally stimulated by some real experience even if not first hand. It's not like the VW marketing machine are spending millions pushing second hand t4s are they...

I guess I managed to get hold of mine before the demand pushed the prices up. When I was looking for a t4 I did look through some real dogs before I went to the auction.

I run a hiace LWB 2.4td 53 plate. Had it about 7 years and it's cost me about 4 sets of wipers! Though I only do about 5k a year in it.
Ex electricians so had 100k on its first 4 years but came ply lined and not loaded with bricks. Paint is virtually spotless. Does about 30-35mpg at 70 on the motorway. LWB is 3m long inside so fits our windsurf kit, the swb wasn't long enough inside for us. Feels quite narrow when driving, Iike a car but the length means manoeuvring around tesco car park needs to be a bit more considered. Rwd is rubbish on anything slightly slippery - it feels like it needs a ton of sand in the back to get some traction.
I need to add side windows and a rear seats now for family use - anyone know if I can just drill holes through the ply floor and bolt through to spreader plates on the underside of the van for the seat fixing?

Ah ftfy I see. Wasn't broken though?
I'd still go for RAC tranny or at least check them out as should be in tip top condition and will be a blank canvas inside to do what you like. I think a lot of there bad rep comes from they are used widely as builders vans and hence take a proper beating.

Possibly not enough exRAC transits about for a proper comparison but there doesn't seem to be many rusty ones. From my casual observations it appears that coloured Transits generally fair better than white ones from a rust perspective. Are the colours better paint than the basic 'commercial' white? A mate who's had a couple of dark blue transits following some white ones reckon the darker colours get warmer and therefore dry out better/quicker. Or maybe it just the most transits are white and therefore most rusty transits are white?