[Closed] Less than 80 days to UK Election....who cares?

We seem to be missing the opportunity to be able to vote for a leader who will do great things for UK.

The UK has many talented and intelligent people who are great leaders - why is UK politics a waste land of talent?

Is it a wasteland of talent? Farage seems pretty good at what he does, if you're a right wing businessman Cameron is also fairly competent. Up north the SNP seem well served. It only seems to be the UK national left that's lacking a decent leader.

We have two parties stuffed with career politicians who all followed the same private education/PPE at Oxbridge/Think-tank/Press office/Westminster route. None of them have ever had a 'proper' job. None of them has any life experience whatsoever. All of them, whatever colour tie they wear, are from the same caste

Is it any wonder they're so terminally uninspiring, and clearly lacking any kind of vision? And that the electorate are turning away from them in droves!

Mainstream politics in this country is ****ed!

The main parties are in for one hell of a rude awakening in 80 days. A proper kick up the jacksy!! The SNP will deliver a hell of shock to labour. Its just a case of how many seats they take. UKIP and the Greens are going to do the same to labour south of the border. You'll see them take a massive chunk out of labours core vote, that it has so casually neglected for decades. They've had enough! UKIP will also wreak havoc on safe Tory seats in the south too.

Will UKIP or the Greens win any seats? Probably not. But they'll both cause chaos annd deliver up some really perverse results by splitting the votes in previously safe seats

[quote=mogrim ]It only seems to be the UK national left that's lacking a decent leader.

On the contrary, Natalie Bennett seems quite decent.

who cares?

A lot of the Labour MPs in Glasgow are more than a bit worried about having a job after it.

We have two parties stuffed with career politicians who all followed the same private education/PPE at Oxbridge/Think-tank/Press office/Westminster route. None of them have ever had a 'proper' job. None of them has any life experience whatsoever. All of them, whatever colour tie they wear, are from the same caste

Got it in one.

On the contrary, Natalie Bennett seems quite decent.

I'm sure she's decent, but she's hardly setting the political world on fire is she?

Agree with Binners. They're all the same, and I doubt it will matter much, if at all, to us lot who gets voted in.

Until a leader shows up who isn't full of shite and is brave enough to make some real changes, I'm not voting for anyone.

We have two parties stuffed with career politicians who all followed the same private education/PPE at Oxbridge/Think-tank/Press office/Westminster route. None of them have ever had a 'proper' job. None of them has any life experience whatsoever. All of them, whatever colour tie they wear, are from the same caste

Is it any wonder they're so terminally uninspiring, and clearly lacking any kind of vision? And that the electorate are turning away from them in droves!

That's more of a problem on the left - private education, a spell at Oxford and a job in the city or Westminster are far more acceptable on the right.

Because we live in an era where even the slightest slip-up is career ending and the internet never forgets, the glare of scrutiny that social media brings means that only the most bland and inoffensive personas survive long enough to make it to the top and stay there.

If you look at the careers of some of our greatest leaders Churchill etc, they'd have never lasted 5 minutes in the current climate. They would have been lynched on twitter for an off the cuff comment or drunken incident long before they got anywhere near the front bench.

We get the politicians we deserve.

all you can achieve by voting is moderately alter the flavour of the meal that will be served

Out of respect for all those who died to get me the vote I will be exercising my right.

The choice we're being offered: would you like your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?

We seem to be missing the opportunity to be able to vote for a leader who will do great things for UK.

Unfortunately we don't have any great leaders!

My one and only post anywhere about this years election

I fear a Con/UKIP coalition. I feel the only way to stop this is to vote labour. I don't want to vote labour, I want to vote green.

If labour had a leader and some strong policies then it wouldn't be so much of an issue

Look at Ed Millibean... When asked what he has done in the real world by a schollkid, he responded with a list of jobs that included economic advisory to the treasury.

At least (and despite my disagreeing with their politics) some of the Labour old guard had actually been part of the workforce and had a proper job, even if it had migrated to shop stewarding.

We should all care.

Anything other than a Conservative led government will be the downfall of the UK for the next 4 years.

[quote=mogrim ]On the contrary, Natalie Bennett seems quite decent.
I'm sure she's decent, but she's hardly setting the political world on fire is she?

Maybe not, but you were asking about the leader of the left, and there aren't any other leaders of left leaning parties.

[quote=Junkyard ]all you can achieve by voting is moderately alter the flavour of the meal that will be served
Out of respect for all those who died to get me the vote I will be exercising my right.

I feel the same. On balance I shall probably vote based on my own petty local issues, as I can't think of any better reason.

I fear a Con/UKIP coalition.

I also fear that, but I also fear a Labour/SNP Coalition!

I hope the LibDems don't get slaughtered as a bit of right/left balance is needed I think. Not Left/Far Left or Right/Far Right.

What real changes do people actually want made? As it is the UK is one of the richest countries in the world, with global influence.

Saying that the one thing I think most people agree on is the tax system is too complex and a mess, so someone needs sort that out (but I bet they don't as in the world of Twitter they all become micromanaging ****s).

Then personally I'd like all politicians to have a 6 month break, don't touch, fiddle or speak about anything and let the country just get on with it.

Hatter's point is very valid, in the modern world we get beige politicians because that's what we want.

It will be a conservative / green coalition - mildly more baffleing that the current one.

Houns - Member
My one and only post anywhere about this years election

I fear a Con/UKIP coalition. I feel the only way to stop this is to vote labour. I don't want to vote labour, I want to vote green.

Couldn't agree more. If we get Con/UKIP coalition then its time to leave the country. But is anyone going to be voting labour with even a shred of enthusiasm? I wouldn't trust Millibean to run a bath! And Ed Balls as chancellor? Christ! Spare us that!!!

Has our democracy ever looked so threadbare?

I've just started reading this....

[img] [/img]

Could there be a starker contrast with the political pygmies we have today? A man of belief and principle. The irony is that I bet his own party can't wait to see the back of him. A reminder of what they actually should be if they weren't so utterly spineless

i'm so full of stoke at the opportunity to reduce my incumbent MP's majority that i doubt i'll be able to sleep until months after the election.

oh no, wait, that's wrong.

I do care, but god, it's all so depressing.

The UK has many talented and intelligent people who are great leaders - why is UK politics a waste land of talent

Politics has become a career choice. Something to do to avoid getting a proper job.

Anyway, am I excited at the prospect of being able to vote in less than 80 days? Yeah. I'm almost wetting myself with anticipation.

The choice we're being offered: would you like your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?

And would you like this shit sandwich served by this bunch of self serving ****s or that bunch of self serving ****s

The polictical landscape has become filled with the politics of jealously. "If I don't get something why should they get it"
- We'll force fatties and druggies to have treatment to take away their benefits
- We'll force young people who can't find a job to do 30 hours of "voluntary" work for their £52 a week benefits
- We'll cut tuition fees but only to £6k because people who go to uni should still pay for it themselves despite it benefiting the whole country (and the cut only helps the richest who actually pay back their loans)

If the phrase "hard working taxpayer/family" was banned until June the whole campaign would be a lot more bearable.

If you look at the careers of some of our greatest leaders Churchill etc, they'd have never lasted 5 minutes in the current climate. They would have been lynched on twitter for an off the cuff comment or drunken incident long before they got anywhere near the front bench.

We get the politicians we deserve.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. 'The problem' is as much to do with the UK's media and their portrayal of the cultural values they perceive the UK masses want.

Whilst most people in UK want an intelligent and open discussion about the core issues the country faces, however the UK media, government and establishment have made so many areas taboo subjects that the issues never get properly addressed.

Politicians and public figures are frightened to speak out openly for fear of offending someone....Make a comment about as asian taxi driver in Rochdale and there is outcry and hand wringing from the politically correct. Try to discuss benefit claimants and the fairness of the system and suddenly this is seen as an attack on the poor. Speak openly about poor practices in NHS and you hate nurses and doctors...

It's madness and I'd suggest doesn't actually represent what most people in Uk want to see.

a Conservative led government will be the downfall

There is little difference between the financial policies of tories/labour the only main difference will be the social consequences for the [s]great unwashed[/s] (sorry went into Tory speak) 😈 normal people of Britain

I care as I need to no what kind of political interference we are likely to face when running business so that we can mitigate against these risks.

Some quite scary ideas being offered to the altar of populism in the last week, which would have a negative impact in our activities. So need to know and need to care.

Then there are local issues, where candidates have different priorities and perspectives. Frankly this is likely to have a greater impact on my vote.

binners - Member
We have two parties stuffed with career politicians who all followed the same private education/PPE at Oxbridge/Think-tank/Press office/Westminster route. None of them have ever had a 'proper' job. None of them has any life experience whatsoever. All of them, whatever colour tie they wear, are from the same caste

Is it any wonder they're so terminally uninspiring, and clearly lacking any kind of vision? And that the electorate are turning away from them in droves!

Mainstream politics in this country is ****ed!

The main parties are in for one hell of a rude awakening in 80 days. A proper kick up the jacksy!! The SNP will deliver a hell of shock to labour. Its just a case of how many seats they take. UKIP and the Greens are going to do the same to labour south of the border. You'll see them take a massive chunk out of labours core vote, that it has so casually neglected for decades. They've had enough! UKIP will also wreak havoc on safe Tory seats in the south too.

Will UKIP or the Greens win any seats? Probably not. But they'll both cause chaos annd deliver up some really perverse results by splitting the votes in previously safe seats

It's going to be a bloody mess, all we can hope, labour might try to go for a minority backed by the SNP, they fail, lose a vote of confidence and we have to get a re run with Miliband & Balls removed.

There is no leader I'd like to see as PM, not Backstabbing nerd Miliband, nor Wet Cameron, nor Clegg the Betrayer and as for those happy Tree hugging Green Women, what is wrong with them, everyone knows elections are won and lost on the female vote and they certainly won't vote for them, don't even mention Farage, jolly enough beer swiller and canny ducker and diver but at the helm, certainly not.

Then there's an even bigger Elephant likely to be in the Room..
[img] [/img]

There is little difference between the financial policies of tories/labour

Pretty much the biggest difference between the parties.

I need to lie down.... 😉

If the phrase "hard working taxpayer/family" was banned until June the whole campaign would be a lot more bearable

Why?

- I'm sick of low-life benefit claimants leaching from society

- I don't want to fund the future healthcare of lazy fatties

- I want to see petty crime being punished harshly, irresepective of circumstance

- I want to live in a society where people work together and work hard for a better future.

- I don't want immigrants to come to UK who add no value and have no desire to learn English and integrate into UK society.

etc

Awkward and non-politically correct in UK today....but what many people actually think....not addressed head-on by UK politics....If the politicians actually debated and addressed these issues openly, it would be a good start.

I've said it before but my bet is on the Tories for an small outright majority win.

[quote=DaRC_L ]There is little difference between [s]the financial[/s] any policies of tories/labour

On a recent thread there was a diagram showing how current and recent Labour policies are actually to the right of where the Tories were in the early 70s. I think the big issue with the current Labour party is how competent they are at implementing traditional Tory policy - the hope is that they aren't quite as self-serving as the Tories, but the available evidence is that they have exactly the same problem of being controlled by big business.

skydragon I though UKIP and the BNP had cornered the market with a similar platform .

My guess hung parliament with lab and tories not in a majority and unable to make a deal with UKIP or SNP and another election after 3 months of a minority govt mess with whomever was in the minority govt losing.

skydragon I though UKIP and the BNP had cornered the market with a similar platform .

I was suggesting that mainstream politics would do well to debate and address these core issues head-on, so that we have a moderate, sustainable and well-considered approach.

The fact that politically taboo issues like this are largely ignored or paid lip-service then only forces that agenda and discussion to the extremes which I personally don't think is a healthy thing for UK.

skydragon - meet Nige....

[img] [/img]

He shares your view. As do most Tory backbenchers.

I agree with you that it's pathetic that the labour party literally wets itself when anyone mentions immigration. Because its a genuine issue in a lot of working class areas that they depend on. And their total failure to even engage with the subject is going to lose them a lot of votes in their core constituencies. As it did in the middleton by election last year where UKIP nearly overturned a 6000 seat labour majority. They've not even addressed the issue since then. Just buried their heads in the sand and hoped it'd go away. It won't!

Jim Murphy definitely cares- he's building a moat round his house to keep away the lynchmob of scottish labour ex-mps.

I still find it hard to believe that we, as a democracy, don't have the power to say "none of the above" on our ballots. Our that we have a first past the post system.

Neither of these, in my opinion, are democratic and until we have the ability to reject politicians outright, rather than vote for our perceived least worst option, and have some form of PR we will continue to be represented by the same self-serving shower that we have now.

Thoroughly depressed by it all. I'm still personally in favour of compulsory voting so long as there is a NOTA option.

Petition for NOTA if you are interested

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/inclusion-of-an-official-none-of-the-above-option-for-all-uk-elections-2

Binners - The problem I have with Nige is that he's not a credible leader for UK, especially on the business side of things and his views are too polarised.

I'd suggest that the real solution lies somewhere between his approach and the mainstream.

Edited to add - it's not just about Immigration, it's about the culture, education, healthcare and policing/legal system and this crazy PC society we are moving increasingly towards.

We seem to be missing the opportunity to be able to vote for a leader who will do great things for UK.

If only we got that choice. Alas under our poor excuse for democracy we get no say in who is Prime Minister. We get to vote for a local MP and thats it. Which party the MP sits with post election is entirely upto them. It is the parties who decide who will be their PM how ever they see fit. There are several examples where by the PM of the country was not the party leader at the time of the election.

skydragon - Agreed. And the two parties won't engage with these subjects because there is a tacit unspoken agreement. They both have exactly the same corporatist, neoliberal agenda. In government they'd all do exactly the same, serving the same vested interests, without giving a flying **** about the vast majority of the electorate.

[quote=Shackleton ]I still find it hard to believe that we, as a democracy, don't have the power to say "none of the above" on our ballots. Our that we have a first past the post system.
Neither of these, in my opinion, are democratic and until we have the ability to reject politicians outright, rather than vote for our perceived least worst option, and have some form of PR we will continue to be represented by the same self-serving shower that we have now.
Thoroughly depressed by it all. I'm still personally in favour of compulsory voting so long as there is a NOTA option.

You make a good point. The trouble however, and the reason it's not a democracy isn't what happens in the ballot box, it's the way in which entities which have no vote get to have far more influence on policy than people who do. I have a horrible feeling that NOTA wouldn't actually make any difference (and if it did, you'd have the huge mess of having no government to sort out).

The trouble is that the whole system is just a massive extension of "power corrupts". I wish I had an answer. Ideally I'd like non-politician "independents" to be able to win seats on a large scale, but in order to do so they have to become politicians, and once elected they have to align themselves with others in order to get anything done, which simply results in a repeat of the existing situation with a slightly different flavour.

What needs to happen is a plea to the voters of Doncaster North not to vote, if Miliband were to lose his seat, then the problem sort of goes away, there are a few half decent labour types and generally for the most of us we're better off under Labour however much they might screw up the economy. The economy 'they' talk about is nothing to do with us at grass roots level, they've got their knickers in a twist right now about deflation and how to stop it, frankly we could do with a bit of it, it's the only way any real sense of wage rise might occur or fixed pensions may go a tad further.

I think NOTA could have a positive effect. If all disaffected voters who don't vote and all those who vote for fringe parties as protests voted NOTA then you could end up with 40 or more % of the electorate open to persuasion. I think to have maximum effect voting should also be mandatory, although this does make me a bit uncomfortable.

If NOTA actually won then you could have a relection between 6-12 months later with a caretaker government of the 2nd place party. There needs to be some way of demonstrating that you are formally witholding consent to govern. Any other form of peaceful protest, such as a spoiled ballot or not voting, can easily be swept under the carpet.

Either of these outcomes would publically demonstrate that the current political process is flawed without wiggle room for incumbent politicians. There is also no way that a political party could legitimately claim to have "won" if they garner fewer votes than NOTA.

The issue of non-elected groups dictating policies is a separate issue but one that I also think needs addressing.

80 days, is that all? Oh god how much longer is this going to take. Pick a prick contest so far isn't doing anything for me.

If the phrase "hard working taxpayer/family" was banned until June the whole campaign would be a lot more bearable

Why?

- I'm sick of low-life benefit claimants leaching from society

- I don't want to fund the future healthcare of lazy fatties

- I want to see petty crime being punished harshly, irresepective of circumstance

- I want to live in a society where people work together and work hard for a better future.

- I don't want immigrants to come to UK who add no value and have no desire to learn English and integrate into UK society.

etc

Awkward and non-politically correct in UK today....but what many people actually think....not addressed head-on by UK politics....If the politicians actually debated and addressed these issues openly, it would be a good start.

Because the phrase "hard working taxpayer" is emotional blackmail fueling jealousy and hate. It's UKIPpery of the finest order.

To me all of the views you have expressed there will make Britain worse. Both collectively and for individuals.

- I'm sick of benefit claimants being blamed for the ills of society. The bill pales into insignificance when compared to the huge price of paying rich elderly people unnecessarly huge sums to live in their windfall of a house; while we punish the young and the unfortunate. Funding the odd scrounger is a price I am willing to pay to live in a tollerant society

- I don't want to discard the greatest premise of our healthcare system because of the predjudice against a few "lazy fatties"

- I don't want to see petty crime being punished harshly, irresepective of circumstance becuase it doesn't work, is a waste of money and punitaive for punishments sake. Rehab is cheaper and more effective but politically incendary in our "eye for an eye" society

- I want to live in a society where people work together and work hard for a better future; and I don't want to drive people away from this by fueling jealousy about the people who aren't part of this.

- I want immigrants to want to come to UK as we are a prosperous and tollerant society, they add value and cultural diversity is a benefit to us all in comabting hate and predudice

I want an errodite compelling politcian to stand up for decent values, promot tollerance and inclusiveness, say it how it is and call out predudice and hate. I don't just want more populist headline grabbing about how much of an arsehole they can be to someone else, "obviously not you, you are a hard working tax payer and I'd never be an arsehole to [b]you[/b]"

I'm not sure whether it is a Tory or a Coalition proposal to ensure that unions can only take strike action when a majority of the people eligible to vote for that action do so.

Can we have the same requirement for forming a government?

At present parties seem to get in with fairly hefty majorities on 40-45% of the vote.

I do.

I fear a Con/UKIP coalition.

I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that theres going to be some serious horse trading going on to establish a government. And theres the serious prospect that this man, if he doesn't already, could be looking like the smuggest man in the country....

[img] [/img]

Deputy Prime Minister Eck?

Why don't they just take turns, nicely?

Because they're not nice people.

I wonder what proportion of the electorate has actually read the various party manifestos and used them to inform their decision? Instead of voting for whom they consider the least biggest knob.

[quote=Shackleton ]If NOTA actually won then you could have a relection between 6-12 months later with a caretaker government of the 2nd place party.

Given a FPTP system, I'm not sure it's anywhere near that simple - even if you ignore the issue of how you're going to get a different result after 6 months. What you're suggesting is that you ignore the NOTA votes and elect people as if they hadn't existed? Don't get the idea I don't like the theory - the practicalities are quite difficult though.

The issue of non-elected groups dictating policies is a separate issue but one that I also think needs addressing.

It's a far bigger issue IMHO. Maybe reforming the electoral system as above would help, but I'm not convinced.

Our that we have a first past the post system.

- I'm sick of low-life benefit claimants leaching from society

- I don't want to fund the future healthcare of lazy fatties

- I want to see petty crime being punished harshly, irresepective of circumstance

- I want to live in a society where people work together and work hard for a better future.

- I don't want immigrants to come to UK who add no value and have no desire to learn English and integrate into UK society.

etc

Awkward and non-politically correct in UK today....but what many people actually think....not addressed head-on by UK politics....If the politicians actually debated and addressed these issues openly, it would be a good start.

There's a simple solution to all of your 'issues' - stop reading newspapers and watching the news. None of these things actually have any impact on your life whatsoever.

And if you want to live in a society where people work together and work hard for a better future then get on with it. What are you doing in your local community?

Tory plans to bring in slave labour will no doubt attract votes.

Tory plans to bring in slave labour

That's more like it. My gardens a mess.

- I want immigrants to want to come to UK as we are a [s]prosperous and tolerant society,[/s]
a society who have promised the baby-boomers lovely pensions and then successive governments have pi***d away the pension pot and so we can't afford to pay them
a society who doesn't want to do the hard, dirty low paid labouring jobs
a society where the tabloids like to spread dissent and petty sound bite jealousies rather than their job of proper investigative in-depth reporting

Tory plans to bring in slave labour

That's more like it. My gardens a mess.

Wait until you find out who the slaves will be....

Are there any actual manifesto's as yet? As in; actually committing to anything concrete? Rather than just making vague noncommittal noises to write the Daily Mails headlines for them.

I seem to recall that at the last election, the main parties manifesto's basically said 'We'll promise to do some, you know.... stuff. Don't worry your pretty little heads over the detail. We'll fill that in later". With pretty much no commitments to anything solid at all. It was like writing a blank cheque. Seems exactly the same this time around. Especially from the simpering Millibean who seems absolutely terrified of making any statement he may be held to account for in the future

Most people I speak to agree with Skydragon but say they won't vote ukip.
I predict the Tories to take outright control.

Problem is
1) your not meant to vote for the leader but rather your local mp and you should vote for the person who will do the best job. Problem is starting with Blair we now have presidential style campaigns.
2) even if you do find a good candidate to vote for you hAve to contend with the voters who dont vote on policy but historical allegiance, manchester is a prime example, labour could out up a nodding dog and it would get elected.
3) the choice between the parties is to get pick pocketed or robbed at gun point, the general public is getting robbed either way while there is a too big to fail and austerity rhetoric.
5) the pm doesnt have any more power than an store manager, sure he can tinker with a few things but all the real decisions are made in head office in brussels by unelected bureucrats.
4) when you think about it our version of democracy isn't democratic at all, its mob rule
5) immigration and benefits are distractions from the fact that the world is in an economic mess, you wouldnt have as much immigration if there were stronger national economies. The same goes for benefits, you wouldn't have an issue if there were more full time jobs that paid a living wage. The biggest scandal that gets little attention are the benefits which subsidise low income be it working tax credits or whatever, its basically the state subsidising companies who do not pay a living wage.

I no longer identify with any party, i like some of the greens policies but there stance on climate change annoys be as science is never settled. I will most likely spoil my ballot with none of the above.

[quote=anagallis_arvensis ]Tory plans to bring in slave labour will no doubt attract votes.

and in other news, labour plans to bring in slave tory

[quoteTo me all of the views you have expressed there will make Britain worse. Both collectively and for individuals. I disagree with some of the points you make. But then it is a great thing that we can both have the freedom to express our respective points of view openly.

I'm sick of benefit claimants being blamed for the ills of society. The bill pales into insignificance when compared to the huge price of paying rich elderly people unnecessarly huge sums to live in their windfall of a house; while we punish the young and the unfortunate. Funding the odd scrounger is a price I am willing to pay to live in a tollerant society

- I don't want to discard the greatest premise of our healthcare system because of the predjudice against a few "lazy fatties"

- I don't want to see petty crime being punished harshly, irresepective of circumstance becuase it doesn't work, is a waste of money and punitaive for punishments sake. Rehab is cheaper and more effective but politically incendary in our "eye for an eye" society

- I want immigrants to want to come to UK as we are a prosperous and tollerant society, they add value and cultural diversity is a benefit to us all in comabting hate and predudice

Our that we have a first past the post system.

Having lived for the past 17 years with a PR system, I prefer FPTP. Here we get a party list to vote for - and if you think the current UK system favours party workers with "no real experience in life" you ought to see what a party HQ designated list is like...

Wait until you find out who the slaves will be....

Thats the key point, who wants these people and anyone who does wont be giving them a decent bit of work experience.

jfletch said what would have said if I were more elokwent.

I wonder what proportion of the electorate has actually read the various party manifestos and used them to inform their decision?

Farage signed the last one [2010] and then described it as drivel [2013 ish]

I believe the NHS is a great institution and should be grown and improved. However, we have an impending Tsunami of healthcare needs, from a strata of society who have been too lazy to look after their health - why should other's pay for that? It comes back to the key cultural point of making people accountable for their own actions

From a purely financial point of view we need more fatties and smokers, not less. They die sooner after retirement, which is a lot less expensive.

I welcome those immigrants who genuinely add value - all others, no thanks. I live in UK and have British values which I expect an immigrant to respect and abide by. I support a tolerant and inclusive society.

I'm not convinced you fully understand what "tolerant and inclusive" mean if you're expecting everyone to conform to your values...

There's a simple solution to all of your 'issues' - stop reading newspapers and watching the news. None of these things actually have any impact on your life whatsoever

The reason i make these comments is because they all do affect my daily life.

I don't really care what the UK media says, but i do care when it impacts my quality of life, or my children's life.

The crime, immigration, benefits claiming and healthcare issues I mention all adversely affect my local area.

And if you want to live in a society where people work together and work hard for a better future then get on with it. What are you doing in your local community?

[quote=skydragon ]To me all of the views you have expressed there will make Britain worse. Both collectively and for individuals. I disagree with some of the points you make.

I think your problem is that you're missing the bigger picture. You actually make some points which seem reasonable (though they do push some people's buttons and invite the instant reaction you got). But there is no solution which doesn't make things worse:

- benefit scroungers do exist, and we should try to get rid of them, however we shouldn't put so much more effort into that than into other ways of reducing the benefits bill and increasing the tax take which would have far more effect, especially given that most seemingly obvious ways of sorting out the scroungers actually affects far more legitimate claimants (I suspect you've never tried to claim JA - much discussion recently on how much of a ball ache that is for legitimate claimants). Do you think there is no effort to stop the scroungers?

- we should encourage people to look after themselves, but stopping treatment for fatties won't do that any more than making mountain bikers pay for their treatment when they injure themselves would stop people biking. Yes something should be done, but not funding healthcare for one set of self-inflicted health issues isn't good for society

- locking up the scrotes won't stop petty crime (getting bored of long replies now)

- whatever the papers say, the vast majority of immigrants do add value, we already have measures in place to stop the tiny minority who are a problem.

You have an issue regarding throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[quote=skydragon ]The reason i make these comments is because they all do affect my daily life.

Really? Give us an example for each point please...

[quote=skydragon ]Nothing, other than trying to support my neighbours as best I can. The only way change will come, is from the top.

Hmm, a good excuse for doing nothing. I have a slightly different belief - in terms of direct impact on me and my community I believe I can make a difference (I could do far more, and doubtless some on here wouldn't approve of much of what I do and would prefer me to do more to help the truly disadvantaged etc., but I suspect I do a lot more than most people).

The crime, immigration, benefits claiming and healthcare issues I mention all adversely affect my local area.

Can you give some specific, evidenced examples please?

I don't really care what the UK media says.

So where do you get your info about these things? Is it from Dave down the pub?

Nothing, other than trying to support my neighbours as best I can.

Oh, so your interest in wanting to 'live in a society where people work together and work hard for a better future' doesn't actually extend to you getting off your arse and doing something useful then. I see.

But I do feel the current system allows too many scroungers.

However, we have an impending Tsunami of healthcare needs, from a strata of society who have been too lazy to look after their health

But I don't want to see petty crime go unpunished and live in a society where significant numbers of people regularly break the law, in part because they know they will get away with it and there a few consequences

I quote these points because these are the widely held truisms that are fueling the current politcial debate. But these are mostly sideline niche issues wipped up to fuel jealousy fueled action. And also not really true.

Can anyone be bothered to go back to the pre and post 2010 election threads to see how accurate people's forecasts were? I clearly recall many people saying the coalition wouldn't last more than a year...

Well if the next 78 days are going to top 'Ed Balls has never asked for a receipt, says his window cleaner' as top political story of the day, I for one am going to be giddy with excitement.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/17/ed-balls-ask-window-cleaner-receipts-criticised

@skydragon UKIP has seen a huge surge as its the only party to actually confront one of the major issues which many voters care about.

I certainly care about the election. However the fixed term parliament means get get 100 days / many months of campaigning unlike the old days where it was much more condensed. A shorter sharper campaign was better.

@grum you and I have been round this loop before about whether people are personally impacted by the issues mentioned here. I certainly am and have posted up numerous examples before. Re: my opening sentence too many politicians and too many people yourself and @aracer included generally are denying these issues exist but that won't make them go away for the significant portion of the electorate that do care about them. Also publically denying they exist alienats those politicians who claim people are not justified in holding those views. As Tebbit said don;t insult your ex customers if they walk past your shop to buy elsewhere, that will ensure they don't return.

Cameron has quip of the day ... I paraphrase .. "After the election and a Conservative victory Ed Balls will have the free time to clean his own windows and cut his own hedge"

Jambayla its just that juvenile shite that turns me off our politicians (of all parties).