[Closed] Legal types to the forum pleas...Family member & a common assault charge.

He deliberately picked up a knife and threatened you, 6 month holiday will make him think of the consequences of his actions, think of it as holiday away from him, the rest of his behaviour is similar to a majority of teenagers.

Drop the charges by citing small family misunderstanding?

Is it possible to sit him and everyone down in a calmly manner to show him love and to tell him of the hurt he has created for the family?

At this age if he is with the wrong crowd and starts to smoke weed and take harder drugs you might need to get him away from them before permanent damage is done. How? I don't know as we are in a liberal society in the UK. In other part of the world we shoot the pushers.

🙂

I'd genuinely be quite surprised if he got 6 months detention based on that scenario, especially as a first offence. As the victim, you can't be forced to give evidence against your own son so you could speak to the officers who dealt with the matter and tell them that you no longer support a prosecution (I'm not saying that this is what you should do but it is an option)

If he is now in local authority care and is a model of good behaviour, that would also be a factor in any pre sentence reports (which would be required before any sentence is passed due to his age and lack of offending history)

If you want to drop me an email it's in my profile

You called the police on him and yet you're still apologising for him.

He absolutely belongs "in a detention center with thieves, thugs, chavs and criminals..." if he believes that pulling a knife on his parents is appropriate behaviour. Sorry. Let nature take his course, he clearly needs a kick up the arse.

I Am Not A Parent, etc etc.

The drugs will be the first to push your son off the edge so that will be the first thing you need to get him off.

Scrap that, take Bregante up on his offer. He knows of what he speaks.

I feel for you, sounds like a nightmare.

The drug use and the knife waving make me concerned for his state of mind TBH. Has there been any mention of psychiatric reports? Do you have any concerns that he may have been self-medicating for a mental illness?

I'm not necessarily suggesting that having such issues would be an excuse in the eyes of the law, but extenuating circumstances are taken into account.

(PS. I'm not a legal type but I've sat through plenty of court cases for work in the past)

Think hard. A criminal record will follow him around for his whole life. Don't believe this "spent" bollocks.
Think hard, but think straight. If you think that this isn't likely to be a one off, then he needs locking up.
At the very least, he needs to be out of your house. That much is obvious.

No idea about the actual final question, but there's a chap on here that posted quite frankly about 'similar' troubles with one of his children last year. Pretty heartbreaking stuff reading it as an outsider, but he may be worth a nod if you were looking for anyone to bounce experience/ideas off. He seemed like a decent guy.

If you wanted to do that, but can't find him from a google search, let me know and I'll say who it was by email. (I only phrase it like this as it's not really my place to 're-live' it for him publicly).

Good luck either way.

EDIT: Cougar, you really surprise me with stuff you come up with sometimes. I'm not a parent either, but that statement requires a ridiculous amount of detachment to even think that's the right mind-set.

Anyhow, sorry - don't want to derail.

Your lad will never learn if you don't follow through on the consequences of his actions. Threatening violence in your own home in front of the younger two. I would respectfully suggest that your actions now will affect how the younger children regard you and possibly treat you/your home in future.
A discussion with the arresting officer/a lawyer as "A good scare is worth more to a man than good advice".

Eight weeks of leading a reasonable life away from home would be enough to convince me to do everything possible to get the law off his back. Even though it's getting the law involved that probably gave him the wake-up call he needed.

I can't see how a custodial sentence would help, meeting people objectively worse than those still on the outside however marginal they may be and a risk of suicide.

Edit: mine is 17 too. Sometimes things do get a little heated.

I have to say, both as a Dad of a 19 yr old and as someone who sees the legal system first hand that I tend to agree with Edukator.

EDIT: Cougar, you really surprise me with stuff you come up with sometimes. I'm not a parent either, but that statement requires a ridiculous amount of detachment to even think that's the right mind-set.

Point was that whatever has been tried thus far hasn't worked. If someone threatened to stab me in the face it'd alter my world view somewhat.

One thing I would say is I wouldnt allow him to move back in under your roof.

Even for one night. Support and help him on the understanding that youll drop the charges if he'll keep trying with your support

However I'd say its time he grew up and moved on/out permanently.

You read the bit that said he was a good kid, and that he'd been clean for 8 weeks I assume?

Really sorry OP, I know how threads can get derailed sometimes - it's just big-man bollocks like that Cougar posted, when someone is asking for advice in a really difficult situation, just gets me.

Last I'll post on it.

Not in the mood to go into detail tonight but common assault is raising the apprehension of unlawful physical contact so making someone think you were about to touch them without permission. So massively wide offence. Actually the least serious charge in this scenario . you can be compelled to give evidence you cannot drop the charges you are a witness not the person bringing the case ( that's the queen) that said your views ought to be taken into account and a lack of support from you could effect the decision to prosecute or indeed the out come. Courts hate knife crime there is a case called povey that says sentences for knife crime should be at the high end of the relevant bracket so I can understand the solicitors opinion though I would be fairly confident of a better outcome if I was doing the case round here . I would however be warning you of the real risks And giving no guarantee. No email in profile I keep my work and private life off here but if you need further advise tomorrow ask and I will work out away of providing it.

I also am not a parent but if i were I would have a talk with him, hopefully he'll be more receptive now that things have escalated and he's been clean for a while.

I'd explain that this is a one time never to be repeated offer and if he's willing to change his ways and behave in a civil manner towards the rest of the family and society in general then you'll do all you can to make sure he gets off as lightly as possible. If you feel that he's genuinely responsive to this approach then a a little kindness now could the thing that stops him becoming a complete shit of an adult.

The harder part is going to be not falling back into the same pattern once this has all blown over and i don't think that whether he's incarcerated or not would make any difference to his long term outlook unless he's really willing to change direction in a big way.

Everyone deserves a second chance, but he would need to be absolutely certain that this was his second chance and if he screwed up again the system would do as the system sees fit.

it's just big-man bollocks like that Cougar posted, when someone is asking for advice in a really difficult situation, just gets me.

TBH, I accept that. I am detached, for reasons I won't go into here (feel free to email me). Wasn't intended to be "big man" though, I'm not like that.

I can't offer any useful advice, but you're not alone in having a very stressful time with your children.

My second son's behaviour was really quite similar to that (though I never got the knife treatment). He's now been sectioned, but he could easily have ended up going through the courts instead.

I'm not really comfortable putting much more here as things currently stand, but feel free to email me.

I'd like to say it gets better, but so far it feels more as though you just learn to live with it.

Retail therapy helps though 🙂

Terrible situation, I hope you can work it out as best as possible, really feel for you.

Agree that he needs a kick up the arse. Just not convinced it's this particular kick up the arse. Already been massive (hopefully positive) changes as a result and being faced with jail time will put the shits up most people, pulling the case/declining to give evidence doesn't mean there's been no consequences.

Also, well done forum people.

If you think the scare of facing prison has had a positive change on his behavior, and he is now getting the help he requires to get his life on track, then I would quit with the charges (if possible) whilst you are ahead.

Because this...

6 month holiday will make him think of the consequences of his actions

...might just make him worse than he has ever been and start a new downwards spiral he will never get out from.

Good luck.

tymbian, not sure if bearnecessities was talking about me or not, if so youll struggle to find the thread as i had to ask the mods to remove it as my lad found it open on my wifes laptop and went off on one :-/ all seems a long time ago now, in reality only 3 years or so but im quite open to talk about the experiences either here or by email.

both my lads got into legal highs, one quite badly (also harder stuff) and we had a daily procession of police, social workers and threats of violence (much the same as your knife scenario).
the system wasnt much help, we had to do things no parent should have to. one particular scene thats still vivid in my mind is one winters night we had to lock them out the house just so the police and social workers would get involved. we werent actually heartless enough to leave them shivering so allowed them in the porch but as soon as we saw headlights told em to get out. makes me so sad to think back, so many stories along those lines.....
few years on and my eldest is just off a long section but still in the mental health system and will probably always be so now, hes messed his head up good and proper. we have a more settled life now with both kids altho far from perfect.

anyway, i digress. FWIW i would never give up on your lad. personally i wouldnt want to go ahead with the charges, i would fear the worst if he went 'inside'. if hes trying to get clean give him all the help and support he needs, just never write him off.
in situations like this i always play the 'what if' game. if the worst case happens and he ends up killing himself, would you think you could have done more? or handled things differently? sometimes its just not your fault and sad things happen and there actually is nothing more that you could do, but from your post im getting the feeling theres plenty of hope yet.
dont give him up to the system whilst you may be able to still show love and compassion and hopefully help him come through the other side.

emails in profile if you need to yap personally at any time.

[i]...might just make him worse than he has ever been and start a new downwards spiral he will never get out from.[/i]

+1

Parent to 3 sons; 21, 20 and 16. My eldest went through this (with my ex), he moved out and 'found himself'. All good now.

Yes SXP, it was you. Thanks.

Not a good situation to be in, however at 17, he should be old enough to face the consequences of his actions...getting in with the wrong crowd won't have helped, but in the grand scheme of things, messing about the drugs on yourself isn't as serious as pulling a knife on anyone - no matter who it is.

I will put my head above the parapet and be prepared to be shot at.... I actually believe he should go through the court process and all that it entails........I have seen and dealt with violent/drug using offspring who were given so many chances by their parents and just carried on with the domestic abuse. If he gets six months he will serve three, assuming he behaves himself etc. hopefully he will remain clean whilst he's inside. If he receives a community sentence because you put in a further victim statement explaining the effect etc on you, the family and that you don't want to see him incarcerated but that he needs to fully comprehend the result of his actions then so be it.
Research the news for family related murders, they're quite common!

I don't know of any vulnerable, out of control teenager with a drug problem that has in any way benefitted from a custodial sentence.. neither can I think of any that have in any way benefitted from the strict disapproval of an authoritarian father..

I would go for damage limitation and try to keep him out of the line of any life changing negative impact imposed by the courts..

Cougar: just wow 😯 what the hell are you doing holding a position of authority online?

What an incredibly sad situation for you all and do hope that you can all find some way of repairing the damage.

Kids are bloomin' hard work and forever pushing boundaries but was there anything that led to him getting involved with drugs? Was he settled in school when there? Did he leave school with any dreams or ambitions?

This assault charge, as serious as it is, has hopefully frightened him and you of course know that being in detention is not the best place for him to be.

I can't see how a custodial sentence would help,

As a screw, me neither. He needs proper support & guidance at this stage.

Maybe get in touch with..

http://www.lifeline.org.uk/

If he got a custodial sentence he's going to a YOI which are full of drugs & I'd say at this stage it ain't going to help.

'Legal highs' are the bane of the prison system now, theyr'e an absolute ******g nightmare that the general public don't hear a thing about.

Cougar: just wow what the hell are you doing holding a position of authority online?

This made me chuckle! I'm sure even Mr C would admit that 'position of authority' is a bit of a stretch for forum moderator to a bunch on middle age cyclists!

I do hope you get it sorted and support those that say prison is the wrong place. Drugs are rife especially the legal highs which have some horrible effects. Thoughts with you.

Thanks for the supportive replies. I'd like to add that the first few weeks of his bail conditions meant he wasn't allowed to have any contact with me but was speaking to his mother a lot and was genuinely remorseful and upset about what he'd done. When we did meet up there were a lot of apologies, hugs and tears. Signing our son over to the authorities was the hardest thing we've had to do. We couldn't help our son any more and we're hoping he would be sectioned and mentally evaluated. He's now in care and 30 miles away from his circle of 'friends' which is what was needed.

Cougar..if you were to meet my son you would find him extremely polite and we'll mannered..not you typical thug, Chav, theif reprobate so was very surprised at the speed you judged...I'll pas on your offer thanks.

@ Hora...I can't drop the charges, the CPS are charging..it's out of my hands.

Cha****ng. .it has been mentioned that his drug use may of been a form of self medicating.

Breathe.. I'd like to accept your offer..

I know that detention isn't the right thing for him. He's to go to court on Wednesday and everything seem to be taken out of our control. We haven't had a letter telling us he's going to court..he's 17 and we haven't signed over parental rights to social services.

if he pleads not guilty the hearing will be adjourned for a few months and then my wife and I ( possibly our 12 year old ) would need to go to court to give evidence.

So a not guilty plea and you all refuse to testify. I'd be quite happy to get done for contempt of court rather than see my son prosecuted.

edit: Or if I testified I 'd just use the opportunity to give the court all the reasons on this thread why a custodial sentence wouldn't be useful and refuse to testify on the incident dismissing it as family tiff in which no one was hurt..

@ crankboy. .If you're able to help in any way it would be appreciated. my email is in my profile. Thanks.

yunki - Member
Cougar: just wow what the hell are you doing holding a position of authority online?

You might not agree with Cougar's approach but that is also one way to deal with problems.

Had a lot of trouble with one of my daughters when she was a teenager . She was in with some not so great people , did some drugs (most kids seem to these days) , removed herself from school , assaulted a fellow pupil , told social services that I had sexually and physically assaulted her and plenty more similar things . I know it's a stupid thing to say but I really believed bad children were the result of bad parenting until we had all this trouble . We tried to be firm but reasonable , talked things through and made sure that at all times she knew that we still loved her . She's in her twenties now and has turned into the most beautiful , loving caring daughter anyone could wish for . Don't suppose that helps in your situation but I guess the moral of that story is don't burn any bridges if you can help it and I hope you have a similar outcome to the one my wife and I have had .

What a horrible and scary situation you are in OP (plus your son).

I have read this thread a few times now and I do not know what to say, as I can see both sides of this.

I guess that my worry is that this isn't something that has come entirely out of the blue because you have seen a steady deterioration in his behaviour over time. Presumably there have been discussions about his behaviour before?

I know that this is a cop out post, but I do not know what I would do in your situation.

My heart says that keeping from going inside is the right thing to do. This may work in the short term, but what happens if he relapses?

I hope that things resolve themselves and that the right thing happens.

Maybe you should sit him down and let read though this post to show him different people's views about his behaviour?

My head says that tough love may be the right answer...

I'm not going to offer advice, he's not my son, but I'll offer you my personnel experience of what has happened to my cousin.

Never worked or studied, lived his life off his parents. As young as 12 he was bringing the police to their door regularly, petty things to begin with and then escalating to sexual assault of a class mate on a school trip. Never his fault was the excuses from his parents. Expelled, then got further and deeper into hard drugs. This culminated in a breaking, entering and aggravated assault charge on his drug dealer with a hunting knife over a mobile phone. Spent 6 months on remand until the drug dealer perjured himself rather than admit to dealing drugs. He had marked himself for "a seeing to" by some nasty people so ran off to Bulgaria to sponge off his parents leaving his girlfriend with 2 kids. Whilst there he managed to get himself convicted of drunk driving, without a licence or insurance, a big deal in Bulgaria, 3 months in prison. Gets out and within a month then takes a neighbours car without permission, neighbours report it stolen not knowing who has it, then rolls it into a ditch, losing his ear in the process, whilst drunk and high. 18 months in prison. He's now back in the UK having had to run away from yet more nasty Bulgarians who have him marked for who knows what.

So a soft approach didn't work, prison hasn't worked, Bulgarian prison hasn't worked. He's incapable of learning even with help offered.

I don't think a prison term will help, the right sort of help with the drugs might, if he wants help. Good luck.

personally tymbian i have a gut feeling youll get a good outcome. every day the courts have to deal with scrotes from uncaring families, sh*tty backgrounds, pretty much lost causes. your lads different in that he has a caring family/support system, so i dont think theyd lock him up if theres a chance of him turning his life around.
just turn up, tell the truth but also state your case in how youre going to do your best to support him and my feeling is you'll all be ok.

Not a lot to say except good luck. It does sound like both you and your son need some help from outside parties in getting to the bottom of this so hopefully social services will be able to provide some route through.

FWIW everyone I've known who's used drugs heavily was using them for self medication at some level so if you really have no idea where this destructive behaviour is coming from maybe he'd benefit from some counselling or therapy. or maybe you'd all benefit from some family therapy to uncover any underlying issues?

@ sadexpunk I remember reading you post and thinking about our own situation at the time.
I'm glad that things have sort of worked out for you and you haven't lost your sons altogether.

I'm sort of leaning towards telling my son to plead not guilty to buy some time so we can get some advice..if there was a way to buy some time without have to offer a plea then I'd use it..( the ramblings of a desperate father that doesn't know what to do for the best. I know it's not detention..

yeah, im not so hot on the legal side of things, so cant advise which path to take there, hopefully someone with more legal knowledge could advise that. but yes youre right, the answer isnt detention, so id do my utmost to ensure that doesnt happen.

all the best mate.

Take care, OP. It must be an absolute nightmare for you.

I haven't (yet) had experience of an unbalanced teen, have only the vaguest tangential engagement with the criminal justice system and am not a mental health professional. As an amateur in those areas, it seems unlikely to me that sending a kid who has fallen in with the wrong crowd, has abused substances and who is emotionally unstable to prison (youth detention) will help much...considering the high proportion of the "wrong crowd", substance abusers and emotionally unstable people in detention. But perhaps (hopefully) I am wrong.