[Closed] Lean Champion

Do what? What you goin on abahyt?

About 75% of those responding to this will say no. Which demonstrates how badly a fair idea can be applied in a lot of places.

Lean practices have their place if used and structured well.

I thought as much, oh and also in a non (physical product that requires to be moved by blokes in lorries) manufacturing environment too.

Fat Champion anyone?

LEAN originated and was perfected in a manufacturing envt (Toyota I think?).

The IT company I work for have applied LEAN across our department and very quickly learnt to adapt it to suit the different envt (i.e. not manufacturing).

There have been significant benefits, but it pays to apply some initiative and not just blindly follow the LEAN process in every detail as some of it may not add value.

Its good, very good for driving out inefficiencies... in an ideal world.

In reality all you end up doing is passing responsibility back though the supply chain. Just In Time takes a lot of effort and each tier of the supply chain pulling in the same direction to run properly.

aP

email me (it's in my profile) with any questions...

I'm a qualified Lean Trainer, have several years shop floor experience both using Lean techniques and teaching them to people, and also have my Six Sigma Green Belt (though not Black yet sadly).

As for its origins? Well, hard to describe exactly where... Elements of Toyota Production System, but Toyota learnt from both American Supermarket supply chains and elements of Henry Ford's mass production system too. Though many people I know say Lean can trace its roots back as far as 18th century factories in Britain even!

Oh, and the great thing about Lean is that its very adaptable. Lots of different tools to use, you'll probably find in any given area you work in only one or two might actually be of much use, but they're all there to pick and choose from.

Lean is what it says. It is getting rid of the 8 types of waste found in the working environment.
It should be adding value, because it is waste that is being got rid of, not creating non-value (waste)

YES!

LEAN developed from the Toyota Manufacturing System and can be applied in manufacturing and transactional processes. Just requires a little logical and some lateral applied thought. I think it's great and use it as much as possible in my current role.

I prefer consultant led information transfer forcing actual cost efficiency

Its good, very good for driving out inefficiencies... in an ideal world.

In reality all you end up doing is passing responsibility back though the supply chain. Just In Time takes a lot of effort and each tier of the supply chain pulling in the same direction to run properly

Spot on. But that's kind of the point! Lean exists to highlight inadequate processes, and by reverse engineering a process you will inevitably improve elements/sections of the process, which will then highlight other elements/sections in need of improvement. Once you eliminate any problem with anything in life (lets say your creaky bottom bracket) you'll soon notice a problem somewhere else that perhaps wasn't as significant but is now the biggest problem (your gears aren't indexing properly, or your brakes rub for instance). So the idea is you keep on improving, until you reach as close to perfection as you're going to get!

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I've always used the '7 Wastes' as a starting point. From there you can see where best to apply the various Lean tools. Running a 'Kaizen blitz' at the moment as it happens so I'm also interested in the comments! 😆

Ah, somehow I missed this one. Yep it can be good but in my last job (Halifax/Bank of S***ebags) what was pretty obvious was that the Lean process was a lot less lean than most of our regular processes- drowning in jargon and bad design, duplication, unneccesary complication, the consultants that designed it put a lot of work into making it all look very complicated so they'd earn their payout I think. It's very hard to take seriously any scheme that can't survive contact with its own rules.

Also brings out some splendid madness in companies- for example, one team got lauded to the heavens for removing a load of incredibly stupid processes. My team got criticised because we'd already got rid of all our incredibly stupid processes and so couldn't make massive savings. Terribly sorry about that.

Then of course there was the enormous complexity it added to making any improvements. Beforehand, we'd see an improvement, have a chat about it, talk to the guys up and down the chain to make sure they were happy, do it. After we were UnLeaned, it generally took longer to fill in the Lean forms and go through the Lean reporting than it did to actually make the change.

So, obviously we avoided it whenever possible. But, since we couldn't check our changes with the neighbouring work area without going through the Bloody Stupid Lean Process we were left either bodging the changes, or just not doing them. It ended up being a huge barrier to change. And it still wasn't effective at blocking bad changes.

But it's not a bad idea, just that it's so often implemented by congenital idiots.

Ah, somehow I missed this one. Yep it can be good but in my last job (Halifax/Bank of S***ebags) what was pretty obvious was that the Lean process was a lot less lean than most of our regular processes- drowning in jargon and bad design, duplication, unneccesary complication, the consultants that designed it put a lot of work into making it all look very complicated so they'd earn their payout I think. It's very hard to take seriously any scheme that can't survive contact with its own rules.

LOL

I got headhunted about one of those roles... 3 month contracts "sorting out" HBOS... You wonder why the contractors were perhaps "stringing out" the process... They were getting paid £350 a day mate! YES, REALLY!

That's what I was offered if I got accepted for the role... Would've more than tripled the wage I was on at the time, sadly I was deemed to be too inexperienced (think they only wanted people with 10 years or more field based) for the role... Could've worked 3 months on, 3 months off on those kid of wages!

But it's not a bad idea, just that it's so often implemented by congenital idiots.

On the whole, I would agree with you. I've been doing it a while myself, and a lot of the people I have worked with have made me cringe! They seem to try to make out like it is some black art, or secret magic... Lean is nothing more than common sense, with a trademark on it! SERIOUSLY! The biggest problem is getting people to actually use their common sense, as if you were to use Mr. Pareto's rule, you'd find 80% of people don't have any, whilst only 20% do... If you're lucky!

I prefer consultant led information transfer forcing actual cost efficiency

Yes it's hard to beat good old C.L.I.T.F.A.C.E

[i]Just In Time[/i]

I worked for a company that appeared to use the 'Just Too Late' approach.

I worked for a company that appeared to use the 'Just Too Late' approach.

Which one of the 99.99% of the companies in the world did you work for then? 😉

The statistical analysis part of six sigma is great, most of the rest of it is rubbish.

I've worked for large Japanese manufacturers and I believe the company that helped drive 'Lean Thinking' into JAG's place of work. They had a lean canteen... but it still did cracking fry-ups.

mboy - Member

"I got headhunted about one of those roles... 3 month contracts "sorting out" HBOS... You wonder why the contractors were perhaps "stringing out" the process... They were getting paid £350 a day mate! YES, REALLY!"

When was it? We had 2 stabs at it, a first try which was a bit amateurish but actually not too terrible, then a second massive corporate stab at it which was just a complete disaster, all one-size-fits-all approaches and "Yes, it might [i]look[/i] like it takes you 10 more manhours to do this process, but actually..."

Got called up by recruitment agencies both times Northwind... But both times knocked back because of "lack of experience"

One size does indeed NOT fit all... The whole point of Lean, as I will reiterate, is that it is a whole load of tools (a toolbox if you will) that you pick and choose the relevant ones to your own area, to fix your own problems!

It may work 100% perfectly for Toyota, using a massive "You will do this the way we say" approach, but that's a cultural thing, and no other company has the same culture. So for the rest of us, using what we can to improve what we can, picking and choosing the relevant bits to our own individual workplaces, will make a massive difference. But when somebody tries to force something down your throat and tells you "it must work, I've seen it in Toyota" when it blatantly doesn't, can be frustrating!

Ironically, it's ALWAYS the guys that spout out the Toyota Way word for word that end up with the mega bucks big corporate work, trying to tell all and sundry they must be like Toyota. You cannot be Toyota overnight! Not even inside 50 years I suspect... The best Lean Change Agents are always the ones that are the most practical, pick and choose the right tools and techniques for each job, coach and train the guys on the job to make the changes for themselves, and though they believe the principles thoroughly do not take it personally when people rightly question things. To many people, Lean can be seen like a cult, or a religion, and they will be put on the back foot and inclined to rebel against what they are being told. It's only when you realise it's all just common bloody sense, with a fancy name, and lots of people having written books about it, that you begin to realise how useful it is!

Honestly, it's that simple... It's a brilliant thing Lean is, but it does amaze me how many people have got so rich out of teaching people to use their common sense! Maybe one day I shall get rightfully rewarded too... 😉