[Closed] Laughable BlueRay player from Arcam

With this kind of BS, I'm sure there are plenty of numpties who'll buy them...

It uses high-quality 24-bit digital-to-analogue conversion from Wolfson, coupled with a linear phase Bessel filter, and high-precision re-clocking of data from the main decoder, resulting in reduced jitter.

People who can afford it will still buy it - there is a big enough market for bling stuff.

(Thinks high end bike gear)...

You can get that sony one for £99 on amazon. I now have one in my lounge. 🙂

The reason why they haven't bothered with Blu Ray is that it's still not mainstream enough - given the amount of money that has to be spent on development and so on, they need to know that they'll shift them to recoup their costs. And until now, enough people haven't been buying them.

I agree though, that I wouldn't buy an Arcam Blu-Ray player, despite having an Arcam hifi. DVD playback just isn't as important to me.

The ergonomics will probably be sh1t as well, people like Sony, Samsung and Panasonic spend millions on the layout of on-screen menus etc.

I fell out with proper hi-fi when I relised the digital to analogue converter in my £350 Yamaha surround amp did just as good a job as my £1000 Audiolab 8000DAX.

If you want to spend money on hi-fi spend it on amplification and speakers thats where it makes the most diference, these days I just look for bargains on ebay

£1000? - you could buy a set of speaker cables for that.

£1000? - you could buy a set of speaker cables for that.

people like [b]Sony[/b], Samsung and Panasonic spend millions on the layout of on-screen menus etc.

Sony?

Spend money on user interface design?

More like, Sony have hardware/firmware engineers, who hack together some kind of user interface which is pretty much based on how the hardware works, not how any user might use something. Or at least that's how it is in sony stuff I've seen. I'd be surprised if they hire any UI people for most of their stuff (except possibly the games company bit).

Same is true for a lot of the big Japanese companies. They are very hardware focused, despite most of the good stuff in hardware actually running in software nowadays. Either they don't do user interface design / user interface testing, or they only test them much in Japan, and Japanese users must be very different, I'm not sure.

Joe

My kids friends were over at the weekend he's 9 and there is nothing to make you feel older than putting a vinyl record on in front of children who have no idea what it is and then marvel at the fact that music comes out!

British hifi hasn't a leg to stand on when it argures that it's technology is superior to that of the mass market giants

Fail.

They may once have had the edge over the competition in terms of sound quality

Massive fail. They still do...

Sadly, with the demise of high quality audio (highly compressed audio downloads - thanks Apple Corp.) the industry is a bit of a lost cause

Billions of CD's still available...

Sadly, with the demise of high quality audio (highly compressed audio downloads - thanks Apple Corp.)

I assume you can back this up with ABX logs of current iTunes downloads? 🙂

Their AAC encoder is a good one, it's transparent to my ears at the bitrate they use.

The death of sound quality in modern music is much more down to [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war ][b]modern mastering practises[/b][/url].

Ah, good to see Mr Woppit still preaching his HiFi religion. Brilliantly funny 🙂

Billions of CD's still available...

But have they been kept in the fridge?

clubber - Member
Ah, good to see Mr Woppit still preaching his HiFi religion. Brilliantly funny

Only to those with cloth ears...

thisisnotaspoon - Member

Billions of CD's still available...

But have they been kept in the fridge?

As long as you have a picture of a black dog on the coffee table ...

Yeah, poor disbelievers, Woppit. They're missing out on something that you can see for a fact 😉

Are you trying to tell me I'm suffering from synaesthesia?

erm... (wikis it)... yes 😉

With this kind of BS

Why's it BS? Seriously, just asking.

It's BS because I'm pretty confident that irrespective of the actual facts (and what's written may well be technically true) it makes precisely no difference that any normal person would ever notice.

A bit like if I was building bike frames and mitred each tube to 10x better tolerance than industry standard and similarly welded it together with 10x better accuracy.

British hifi is a total joke, the dealers, the sound quality, the manufacturers, the fanbois. I'm a big advocate of British industry, but I would love Linn and Naim to go bust after the fleecing of the British public for the last 20 years.

people do funny things with their money. like buy push bikes for £2.5k

Great perfrming £150 Sony player Even has internet functionality
Posted 23 minutes ago

You can get that sony one for £99 on amazon. I now have one in my lounge.
Posted 33 minutes ago

Jesus!, not even CRC in their heyday could have come close to that
(via royal mail as well ?)

😆

A bit like if I was building bike frames and mitred each tube to 10x better tolerance than industry standard and similarly welded it together with 10x better accuracy.

In which case, you'd have to brand your frames "Naim"... 😉

it makes precisely no difference that any normal person would ever notice.

Ah, so you're assuming something you've not experienced must be rubbish based on your absolute 100% knowledge of the subject? Basically, you're being TJ 🙂

Pre order sales for the arcam blu ray are very promising, as were the sales when it's first hdmi dvd player hit the shelves at 1k when others were at 300.
The arcam stuff is good s++t and people who are into hifi/home cinema will spend money on quality stuff. which i'm surprised is not understud on a forum for high quality bikes where the average spend is £1500-2000

Wot Molgrips said +1

I do find it rather ironic that people are slagging off high end hi-fi on STW of all places....

Yet tell them that a US/UK made £2000 Ti frame is hardly any better than a £150 Taiwaneese On-One and they'll go blue in the face with rage!

😉

Why's it BS? Seriously, just asking

[i]digital-to-analogue conversion from Wolfson[/i] - like my 2G iPod nano (although I don't know whether that's 24 bit)

[i]linear phase Bessel filter[/i] - isn't the only reason you use a Bessel filter because its reasonably phase-linear?

[i]high-precision re-clocking of data from the main decoder[/i] - can't even figure out what this means!

I like Arcam stuff, but if this is the best their marketing people put out perhaps they need to do some re-thinking. If I were to buy one of these (unlikely - I wouldn't invest that much in technology (BD) with potentially a short lifetime combined with a rapid development rate - 3D anyone?) it would be because of their reputation in producing good analogue audio stages, not because of "high-precision re-clocking of data".

i was with you till you mentioned 3D.

retro83 is right - the way that new music is mastered is the problem.

Haven't some people started producing multiple versions of recordings? Like, one for cheap everyday hifi/ipod and one for audiophiles?

The biggest change in my listening enjoyment after the actual music itself is the recording. I've got some CDs that are blatantly crap, and some that are excellent.

Billions of CD's still available...

CD sales have plummetted in recent years.

BTW. I am a hifi enthusiast! I bought a CD player, 2 Amplifiers, rack, interconnects and speakers totalling close to £4k some sixteen years ago. It's still awesome and I know I couldn't improve on it much.

When I bought the kit, the difference in the price of Japanese and British Hifi was not that marked. Since then, Japanese technology sales have burgeoned. Prices have dropped and the products have evolved almost beyond recognition. Conversely, British hifi has remaines pretty much the same, but has become more expensive, whilst the quality of budget equipment has been reduced.

When I went into Sevenoaks hifi recently, I saw a light sprinkling of cheap looking, but epxensive hifi, but the shop was predominantly full of ridiculously overpriced A/V kit. For example: an HTPC priced at £7200. What utter bullshit!! British hifi is dead! Nobody talks about it, nobody buys it. It's become an extremely niche product that offers poor value. I'm very disappointed, but if the market wants £200 compact systems, that is what it will get.

Yes I know, people have no idea what they are missing, but the British Hifi industry has frightened them off with stupid prices!

The biggest change in my listening enjoyment after the actual music itself is the recording. I've got some CDs that are blatantly crap, and some that are excellent.

You must have a decent hifi. 😆

Haven't some people started producing multiple versions of recordings? Like, one for cheap everyday hifi/ipod and one for audiophiles?

Yes, also unmastered albums occassionally leak or get accidentally released. I've got quite a few unmastered ones and they all sound vastly better than the retail CD.
The Red Hot Chilli Peppers Californication, Amy Winehouse Back To Black and Metallica Death Magnetic being some of the best examples (in terms of sound quality difference!).

The right thing to do IMVHO would be to integrate the dynamic-range compressor into the playback hardware like the 'nighttime mode' on DVD players.

i was with you till you mentioned 3D.

Only mentioned that as an example of the way new things come along - not something I'd worry about myself! There's a deliberate policy of rapid obsolescence with recent technology which is why I wouldn't bother buying most of it from one of the top-end manufacturers. Next month's cheapo BD player may well be better than this month's top-end one, or have some must-have feature.

molgrips - Member

it makes precisely no difference that any normal person would ever notice.

Ah, so you're assuming something you've not experienced must be rubbish based on your absolute 100% knowledge of the subject? Basically, you're being TJ

Not really. I have a few mates who are as deluded about this as many on here clearly are. They rave on about their £20k (seriously...) systems and yet when I did a blind test (against an older (cheap - only about £2k) system that one had in the room) they all failed despite having claimed a few minutes before that the new one sounded loads better. Obviously everyone on here will say that they all just had crap hearing but that's basically the usual excuse. You won't find any blind tests that are conclusive once you get into half decent hifi territory.

Besides, I always think that hifi buffs are to music what people who buy flash mtbs but never ride them are to cycling - eg for them it's all about the equipment rather than actually about the music itself.

I purchased an Arcam amp and DVD player about 7 years ago. Ex-demo, about £500 each from memory, otherwise I couldn't have aforded them. Whilst they do cost a fair bit of dosh they're still going strong and I'd imagine that they will last me a good few years yet.

Before that I had a Aura, Marantz setup and still have the speakers, which I think are around 15 years old now. Passed onto a family member and still working fine. So yes it may cost a bit more but if you keep it long enough it's TCO is failry low. Compare that to the cheap freeview boxes which we were replacing every every 18 months or so in the past 🙁

Saying that now with kids, mortgage etc I'd take the £99 Sony 🙂

I always thought there was something that sounded a bit meh with Californication.

I've got quite a few unmastered ones... Metallica Death Magnetic being some of the best examples

If you, ah, need me to hold an offline backup of that for you, let me know. I can't listen to that damn album, it clips so outrageously badly that it's unplayable. How it ever got released I don't know. I'd love to know what it's supposed to sound like.

I guess a lot of it all comes down to what you are into and what your view of value is. We bought the Sony BluRay player (S360) just after Christmas and got it for £99. Bargaintastic it is. I personally don't find the picture quality between DVDs and BluRays is that great but the sound quality that we get is significantly better. The Arcam would have to go some way to be worth 9 times the cost of the Sony to tempt me into buying it. IMHO a lot of the hi fi stuff also comes down to your personal preferences and tastes. Listened to a NAIM cd player, through a NAIM amp and £2000 Dynaudio speakers a few months ago and I was spectacularly unimpressed. Yet I'm sure there would be some hi fi buffs spaffing off over how great and magical the whole thing sounds. While I'm nowhere near approaching hi fi buff land I am particular about the quality of the sound that I get when listening to music and am keen to ensure that I get very good quality and value form the budget that I have. Baffles me that some people are quite happy to buy some plastic box from Currys or Comet that sounds absolutely dire. But I guess sound quality is not important to them.

It's a market thing. Arcam think there's enough demand for a player of that cost so fair enough - they've been selling decent non-cheap stuff for long enough. If you are happy with a £99 player then be happy. I have no idea if the Arcam is worth 10x the Sony to me without a demo - need a nice big screen and sounds system to go with it I suppose.

linear phase Bessel filter - isn't the only reason you use a Bessel filter because its reasonably phase-linear?

Yes.

The downside is their amplitude response rolls off rather slowly and they don't really have a flat passband at all. For a DAC reconstruction filter the digital signal will have to be pre-compensated and highly upsampled (both can be done with perfect linear phase in the digital domain).

It'd be interesting to see what their sales projections are like. They released the DVD Solo a while back (basically the Solo with a DVD player, like Linn's Klassik DVD), but I've not seen much in the way of rave reviews of it

clubber - Member
With this kind of BS, I'm sure there are plenty of numpties who'll buy them...

It uses high-quality 24-bit digital-to-analogue conversion from Wolfson, coupled with a linear phase Bessel filter, and high-precision re-clocking of data from the main decoder, resulting in reduced jitter.

That's not BS. It's just you don't understand it 😛

Clubber - £2k might be cheap for you but it's not for me 🙂 I don't doubt that a £20k system is most likely overkill. I always thought the arguments on here were about £3k vs £300 systems!

There are other issues I think. High fidelity is a moot point since the original recording isn't a perfect representation of what was actually being played anyway. What exactly would you be trying to reproduce with perfect fidelity anyway? The impression of listening to a live band? Well that depends on about a million factors anyway. Not much point in trying to slavishly reproduce the waveform that was put on the media when that's been mucked about with no end before it was ever laid down.

So you need something that sounds good rather than accurate I reckon. And if that's a £3k system with electronic whatsits and gizmos then fine 🙂 And if there's different stuff coming out of the speakers than went into the mic, that might actually sound good anyway - isn't that why people like valve amps?

The only thing laughable about this is the reaction to it. It really is quite simple. If you a quality player and have that much money to spend on one, you go along and try it out. If you like it and think it's worth it then you purchase it, if not then you don't. If you think the 99pound one is better then you get that. The only fools here are those that are get worked up by the fact that people are willing to spend such money on something they think isn't worth it.

Yes, I have an extremely expensive Hifi and yes, I have had mates try to prove to me that there is no difference. I've done blind tests of all sorts including cable direction and cd copies and annoyed them greatly by detecting the difference and even in some cases got them to notice the differences once they'd forgetten the fact that they know a little about physics so must know everything about everything.

If it all makes no difference to your own enjoyment of the music, or film or whatever it is (ride, photo,etc.) then ignore it. Simple.

Not heard the Arcam player and have no interest in spending huge amounts of money on such a thing, so will happily ignore it and be happy that it may make some people happy. It's strange to think that such a thing works people up so much though.

I've done blind tests of all sorts including cable direction

You're brave....

Waves at the people clamouring for me to lose my job 🙂 Sorry to disappoint but Naim is growing very nicely at the moment, so we must be doing something right. As I've always said, the factory is open to anyone who wants to have a look around, you should come and say hello 🙂

Presumably you'd have to walk around the site the right way to get the sonic experience just right....

tiger_roach - Member

I've done blind tests of all sorts including cable direction

You're brave....

I assume they did their market research and appeal for a unit that price exists. You will get people who will buy/afford it.

I'm not one of them so where's the linky to a cheap Sony one 😉

Cougar - Member

If you, ah, need me to hold an offline backup of that for you, let me know. I can't listen to that damn album, it clips so outrageously badly that it's unplayable. How it ever got released I don't know. I'd love to know what it's supposed to sound like.

See what I can do for you later 😉

DM still sounds a bit clipped in some places to my ears, but nothing like the retail CD. Rumour is that it was clipped during the mix as well as during mastering. The main difference that I notice is that the drums are much more punchy.

I've got quite a few unmastered ones... Metallica Death Magnetic being some of the best examples

If you, ah, need me to hold an offline backup of that for you, let me know. I can't listen to that damn album, it clips so outrageously badly that it's unplayable. How it ever got released I don't know. I'd love to know what it's supposed to sound like.

+1!

traildog - Member
Yes, I have an extremely expensive Hifi and yes, I have had mates try to prove to me that there is no difference. I've done blind tests of all sorts including cable direction and cd copies and annoyed them greatly by detecting the difference and even in some cases got them to notice the differences once they'd forgetten the fact that they know a little about physics so must know everything about everything.

Can we see some ABX logs then? 🙂 How about ripping the CDs and comparing the MD5s too?

See what I can do for you later

\o/

Is there not a slight issue here that awesome DACs etc. aren't actually used in reading digital content off a disk then transmitting it all to a TV (or AV decoder) on a digital HDMI cable? They don't really convert it to analogue just to re-digitise it do they?

RichPenny - as I long-term Naim owner I'm fine with them doing well. It seems to me that they have managed something very unusual in that models have such a long lifespan. How much has the Hicap changed over the years? This must mean fantastic profits as upfront R&D costs have been paid many times over and the RRP on those things is quite incredible for what it is - but that's fine because people pay it. For those that don't know it's a power supply for a preamp or CD player for £1,100.

All my stuff is from Ebay which works out a bit better.

Personally not clamouring for you to lose your job - fair play to you. I'm just saying that my experience of listening to it was underwhelming considering the cost and reputation of the kit. But that's my personal taste and what worked for me. 😀

Rumour is that it was clipped during the mix as well as during mastering.

I really don't think that British hifi has been ripping anyone off. Sure it's pricey, but people are more than willing to pay the price, and consider it justified. I certainly agree that quality of mastering is a real issue as far as sound quality is concerned, as I've said before; differences are quite marked listening to ripped tracks through a pair of Ultimate Ears MetroFi 220's. Somebody tried to blame Apple and iTunes, which is a blatant troll; the MP3 format was in existence long before Apple got into music downloads. AAC is based on MP4 which has better compression algorithms as far as I'm aware, and in any case, have all the hifi nerds forgotten that popular mass-market portable music medium the compact cassette? The sound quality was perfectly adequate for millions of people, so the general quality of downloads should be at least as satisfying for most of the general public, certainly I was more than happy recording albums from a mono Bush record player using the microphone of a Philips N2204 portable cassette player.

Ok, a more basic question...
Still got a big CRT telly until we get Freeview HD later in the year but needing a DVD player. Figure I may as well get something like that Sony mentioned way back but will it still work with my stone age tellybox?

EDIT - realise I won't be able to watch bluray yet!

I hear that the masters turned up at the mastering facility and the mastering engineer rang up Rick Rubin and asked "WTF" apparently they were clipping constantly. Apparently if you want to hear a decent version you need the Guitar Hero version which isn't mixed by Rubin

Yes, actually I've got that version also ... see if I can track it down this evening and give it another listen.

SONY BDPS370 is very good indeed, picked one up and works great with bbc iplayer and lovefilm etc, usb hard drives and oh yea blue rays...
but the best is that the unit is fast loading and great interface, bizarley link perfect with my toshiba tv..

tiger_roach, Hi-Cap has been through 4 cosmetic variants, fair few electronic changes as well. Trust me there are no fantastic profits to be made. If there were my FS wouldn't be 6 years old! Some things do have better margins, this allows us to fund new R&D and cut margins elsewhere. No issue with S/H stuff at all, my Naim kit was before I joined them. Now it's mostly prototype 8)

In the interests of balance, I'd like to share my experience. I love music. No, I [b]really [/b]do. If it's live, then even better. I was brought up in a household where music of all sorts featured heavily and one of my close family was a top flight professional singer. In 1992, I started my first job after Uni but decided to live on a student income for many months to save up for a good HiFi. I knew nothing about electronics (and I'm just as ignorant now), just went around a number of retailers and HiFi shops to listen to their wares and make my decision based on what I heard. Then one day, I walked into a BADA dealer, spent an hour explaining the kind of music I liked and arranged a listening session with my own records and Cds. I heard my music played on a Linn system (turntable, amp, "directional cables" and speakers) with an arcam CD player. I was alarmed to see no graphic equaliser, no flashing lights and no separate Bass and Treble knob.....BUT.....it totally, totally blew me away. Still does. As does anyone who visits my home 18 years later. You'd swear that the artist was there, in front of you, playing live in your own home. Breathing, fingers sliding on guitar strings, the lot. I don't know how it works or what the spec sheet says and I don't buy the "science" behind directional cables, but my God it sounds good. Granted it cost a lot, but it was worth it to me.
Many years later I did the same with DVD players but this time the £80 Toshiba player seemed no different to much more expensive ones, so I opted for the "cheapie". If you've listened to British HiFi and think that it's a waste of money, then fair enough. Mine's black and unfashionable looking and it may be that things have changed over the years, but I defy anyone to listen to a record - yes, record - on my Linn system and not be impressed. Rule Brittania, I say.

Seeing as Arcam can still sell a CD player for over £1k, I don't see whats so unbelievable about them making a Blu-ray player for that much

More basic question:

Got a decent(ish) Panasonic 32" HD TV - is the only way to watch HD stuff via satellite TV (nope) or BluRay DVDs? I think Freesat has some HD coming but not down these 'ere parts (Cornwall)!

I value decent hifi kit - I blame a session bass playing dad...

Never been that worried about TV stuff - just got a bigger TV because our eyes are getting older and worse!

Tinners - Member
In the interests of balance, I'd like to share my experience. I love music. No, I really do. If it's live, then even better. I was brought up in a household where music of all sorts featured heavily and one of my close family was a top flight professional singer. In 1992, I started my first job after Uni but decided to live on a student income for many months to save up for a good HiFi. I knew nothing about electronics (and I'm just as ignorant now), just went around a number of retailers and HiFi shops to listen to their wares and make my decision based on what I heard. Then one day, I walked into a BADA dealer, spent an hour explaining the kind of music I liked and arranged a listening session with my own records and Cds. I heard my music played on a Linn system (turntable, amp, "directional cables" and speakers) with an arcam CD player. I was alarmed to see no graphic equaliser, no flashing lights and no separate Bass and Treble knob.....BUT.....it totally, totally blew me away. Still does. As does anyone who visits my home 18 years later. You'd swear that the artist was there, in front of you, playing live in your own home. Breathing, fingers sliding on guitar strings, the lot. I don't know how it works or what the spec sheet says and I don't buy the "science" behind directional cables, but my God it sounds good. Granted it cost a lot, but it was worth it to me.
Many years later I did the same with DVD players but this time the £80 Toshiba player seemed no different to much more expensive ones, so I opted for the "cheapie". If you've listened to British HiFi and think that it's a waste of money, then fair enough. Mine's black and unfashionable looking and it may be that things have changed over the years, but I defy anyone to listen to a record - yes, record - on my Linn system and not be impressed. Rule Brittania, I say.

Well said Tinners - there IS a difference between well made hi-fi equipment and the cheap shite you get in Comet and Currys, flashing lights, graphic equalizers and shiny bits have nothing to do with quality hi-fi .
Good gear will also last for ever - I'm running a pair of 70's Rogers speakers which are nearly as old as me and they still sound wicked.

The way I see it is this: there may not be much of a discernible difference in sound quality when you first compare say a Naim system to a Sony system but try and go back to the Sony system after 6 months of owning tha Naim gear and the difference in quality will become apparent.

Some of the stuff that you see for sale is right up it's own arse though i admit - [url= http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=4227&customer_id=PAA1433074710766KOKYNSKPOSEISOYF ]Cable elevators anyone?[/url]

There was also a big hoo - haa a few years back when a tiny company by the name of Beresford decided to knock out DAC's that sound arguably equal if not better than models costing 10 times as much - lots of the hi-fi snobs at the time slagged them of without even hearing the thing so there is a element of "snake oil" around the expensive stuff. it MUST sound better. Not necessarily so

Loudness war is all about getting your "tune" to pop and stand out on the radio IMO - just sounds ****in horrible though on anything else

RichPenny - I have a Uniti and i just want to say its the most brilliant thing I have ever had so thanks for making it. Honestly, features & sound quality all in one little (heavy) box. Has a set of Rega RS5's to go through now and thats just made it nicely.

Its all a bit personal really. Behind me <waves over shoulder> is a door that takes me into the Naim dealer here in Wgtn, so i listen to lots and lots of very nice HiFi gear, we steal kit and put it in the office which is a pretty empty , acoustically nice room (as opposed to my lounge which is all nutty angles). And some stuff i like the guys don't and vice versa.

Agree on recordings though, all my ripped stuff is lossless - or nearly all of it, but somehow my vinyl still sounds nicer. And Californication, well, that engineer shoudl be beaten, its got the worst clipping ever heard - you can literally hear it!

Interesting.

I wonder if as a general rule, you are being a bit of a sad audio geek, if you have spent more money on your system, than on the music you actually play on it?

How many posters does this apply to here?

Pointless ^^

Stoatsbrother, it's inversely proportional. Well known phenomenon. The more money on HiFi the worse the "taste" in music.

I'm not certain whether I need less or more Jitter in my life...

I expect there having the same argument about wheelsets over at some hifi forum right now

I dont have a problem with people spending whatever on hifi gear, but the UK 'hifi' industry boils my piss....some examples...

Going back 20 years, a friend of mine spend c3K on a Linn based system from a well regarded HiFi shop in the North West of england. He liked it, and was thinking of upgradng. He when back to the same dealer a year later, who had fallen out with Linn and did not stock it...Naim was now the only hifi for 'real' music lovers...Linn 'keeps the music locked in'. So my friend junked his Linn gear and replaced it with Naim. It sounded unlistenable, and dispite several 'setup' visits, he was never happy with it. Turns out that he needed an additional power supply, otherwise it can 'sound a bit harsh' Think it cost c.£350, slight improvement, but still not happy. Ahh, there is a better PSU, but it's c.£800, so he bought that....slight improvment but still not happy. His hifi went into storage sometime after that, and as far as I know, it's still there.

Last year I phoned a 'well regarded' dealer in the east midlands about an external DAC as my UK made CD player had broken after 7 years and the company could no longer supply transports (so 2K's worth of CD player down the shitter for the sake of a £15 transport). The owner of this shop had previously come over to tune up my lovely british hifi...spent two hours on it, during which I had to listen to a constant stream of psudoscience bullshit. The hifi sounded like shit...he had not realised the subwoofer was out of phase with the main speakers. So this guy has been telling me how great value a 2K PSU upgrade is, but he can't tell that the subwoofer is out of phase....a clown...total clown.
Anyways, when I phoned about this DAC, the guy who answered the phone said they were no longer stocking them as they don't really have a proper UK importer and they don't make any money on them. I asked if they were any good, and he said (and this is verbatim) 'yes, a few of the guys who work in the shop have sold their Naim CD555(?)'s because they thought the DAC was better'. The DAC is a tenth of the cost of the Naim CD player, but because there is no margin, the shop flogs the Naim, not the DAC. Does this sound like an industry trying to give clients who love music value for money?

Hifi dealers have been telling customers that UK hifi is the only hifi that sounds good for years....it's not true, there is loads of good gear out there, which sounds different, but is ridiculed by the british hifi industry.

lodious - doesn't your friend ever demo anything before buying it?

So what's this DAC? What transport to put it with?

The CD555 is certainly a lot of cash and if those people are selling their Naim's for the DAC then that is interesting but it does seem odd for a sales assistant to give you that info.

Philsimm

perhaps. and so what? This is the chat forum - not the bike forum.

With the exception of the (well-known) issues of mastering and "brickwalling" - people here have been talking about the gear and the sound without much reference to the music. Or mentioning music where you might not expect great sound in any case. I think many of us have gear-whore tendencies. Buy the shiny thing. Medium over message.

the sound quality that we get is significantly better

BluRay uses the same audio formats as DVD doesn't it? I'm (sort of) sure you can get 96kHz/24-bit uncompressed (or maybe AC3?) audio on DVD? cba to research it, but it rings a bell as sounding right 😆

I'm not a complete audiophile but I can hear differences between different speakers. I like the Mordaunt Short MS25i's we had at uni. Nice clear sound, not much bass on offer though.

The UK has some of the best Hi-Fi manufacturers on the market. I don't think they've been mentioned in this thread though.

Sugden, SME, Living Voice, Michell, Nottingham Analogue, Rega, Trichord, Bowers and Wilkins, Meridian, Tannoy etc.

Recently, Linn and Arcam are the worst examples IMO.