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They're the dictionary definition of marmite.
I think you either "get" them or you don't?
There’s no other car in history that has transcended the class boundaries I dont think.
Really? Even if the idea it trancscended class were true what about the the mini, ford model t, cx beetle, vw golf, Fiat 500 Lotus seven etc
Massively overhyped, overpriced and undeservingly loved. I had a series 3 88" and an arctic spec , LHD 110 , and the 88" blew up whilst ragging it at 53mph, and the 110 was too hot to drive in tbe UK so I sold it for next to nothing.
Best 4x4 i ever had was either my Isuzu TF (Vauxhall Brava), but not practical for you, or my beloved 1998 Grand Cherokee which I should never have sold. That vehicle sounds perfect for what you need. You could pick one up for a few £k, and have all that money left to spend on fuel, youre going to need it.
Oh, and if you buy one, do yourself a favour and get the crank sensor dine first as last. Major PITA job and an inevitability.
But...if you do buy one, get a Wolf variant. Dont know why, but driving them and a normal 110 was like night and day.
10year 110 owner here, sold it to capitalise on crazy current values.
They are complex vehicles with lots of oily bits that all require frequent attention (engine oil, 2 diffs, gearbox oil, transfer box oil, front swivels) as well as normal service items.
You need either deep pockets to keep them reliable or have time and be handy with spanners.
I wouldn't buy another although I loved owning mine.
Needs a bit of work, but it’ll buff up nicely...
😉
Similar to fransinatra - we have 2 Defenders for MRT duties. Pretty much everyone on the team hates driving them. They have a reverse tardis effect; massive outside, cramped inside. Two of our tallest team members can’t physically get behind the wheel to drive them. Braking is awful, steering is wandery, and they wallow when driven on road. They’re an absolute hoot to drive off-road; everyone suddenly thinks their ace after we’ve done our off-road driving refreshers...until we go back to driving them on tarmac.
In short; unless you really need the off-road capabilities, buy something else.
What i want is reliable.Funny 🙂
I won't stand up and say they're the best cars ever, 'cos they're clearly not, but they really don't have to be unreliable.
I've been driving them for ~12 years now, I've had two 'breakdowns'.
Once the alternator died (still ran, but it was a petrol and it was dark and rainy so I knew I wouldn't get home on the battery). When I got home I resoldered a connection in the alternator and it's been fine since.
Then last week I was towing a massive trailer out of a myre and the clutch started slipping. Got a tow out and drove it home, where it awaits a new clutch (which will set me back ~£100, so not the end of the world).
Look after them and they'll look after you.
They do need more looking after than a modern car though - service intervals were much, much shorter when these things were designed. If you want to buy something you can ignore between 15k mile services then they aren't for you.
Not as 'trendy', but why not get a Discovery 4? Infinitely nicer and prices have come right down
There’s no other car in history that has transcended the class boundaries I dont think.
Really? Even if the idea it trancscended class were true what about the the mini, ford model t, cx beetle, vw golf, Fiat 500 Lotus seven etc
By "transcending class." I mean that everyone from the farm worker through to the queen drives them. Not true (I don't think, though happy to be corrected) of the models you mention?
So farm workers and people who own big farms then. Not a massive cross section of society then;)
I think Princess Diana owned a golf as did an old workmate of mine who lived on an estate (council not sandringham) and sold ecstasy- that’s got to be a better example
I suspect the unreliable tag is more applicable to newer ones. My 93 200Tdi 110 has been pretty good...has only actually stopped on me once in 10 years (touch wood) and that was easily sorted by an AA man. It was a bit unreliable starting for a while but I traced that to a bad earth. I don't do much of my own maintenance, I spend a couple of hundred a year on service and whatever it needs for MOT. Had to have two new outriggers this year but that's only a few hundred. Is it comfortable? No. Is it practical for my needs? Sort of...fine we for taking bikes to Afan or Brechfa, but I wouldn't want to go further. Sort of ok for carrying windsurfing stuff, as long as it's only me. It was great when I had dogs...just chuck them in the back no matter how wet and muddy.
But I like it...if I had a van I'd probably have to treat it better to stop it looking like a builder's van. Not sure what I'll do instead when it does die.
So farm workers and people who own big farms then. Not a massive cross section of society then;)
Read it again. Without the chip on your shoulder. That's not what he has said.
I bought a crap Transit van after I sold mine -
faster and quieter on motorways,
comfier driving position,
the dog prefers it,
can sleep in it rather than in it (had a Howling Moon roof tent on the 110).
Can throw bikes in easier.
Both have the same reliability record so far with both breaking down twice. The Landrover I sorted by the side of the road (fan belt and power steering) and got home, the van had to be recovered (starter motor fail, crank pulley snapped off).
Read it again. Without the chip on your shoulder. That’s not what he has said.
Read it again and see the little 😉 thing that means I’m teasing, maybe you’ve got the chip. But I think my second point stands.
I have no real opinion on Land Rovers, I live in a city, have only driven the one - strangely it went ten yards and then spat its clutch, friend has had a couple, seem to be stolen from him fairly often. All the farmers round our place in Ireland seem to get by with old Japanese 4x4s or saloon cars.
Driven many, many Defenders over the years. Excellent off road tools to get places most other cars couldn't even dream of, great wading, deep snow and towing ability. Also great to hand back at the end of the shift, knowing I wasn't paying for fuel or maintenance.
By far the worst road car I've ever driven. Heavy, vague controls, ancient 'quirky' layout and, other than its considerable mass, there's a worrying absence of safety features. Have attended quite a few crashes involving them. They always win in minor bumps against smaller, lighter, deformable cars, however they are deeply unsafe in higher speed collisions as all the impact forces pass through the chassis to the occupants. Two head on collisions I recall involving Defenders, one had crashed into a Discovery and the other a Range Rover. Both Defender drivers had life threatening injuries, yet the Disco and Range Rover drivers were conscious and chatting. They are also prone to rolling over and there's negligible roll protection in those narrow pillars.
I'd never, ever even begin to consider purchasing one as a reliable, safe, family car, they simply aren't.
Depends on your standards. If you are a iphone 75 ( nor what ever version they are on) buying, 60" telly person who wants the world now, then run away.
They do 70 easily, engine dependent. In the UK thats all anyone needs ever on the road. They go all round the country comfortably. After all two, much earlier versions, went to Singapore in the 50s. They are not cursed with stupid plastic bits everywhere on the body so you don;t care if you park in a hedge. (Alright some of the polish and pose brigade might not like that)
Been though 6 over the years and another one on the cards.
Drive one first.
They go all round the country comfortably
Can I have some of what you're smoking please?
If we are talking about crash protection, i had a some mates who wer e in one which aquaplaned whilst towing a trailer full of canoes. Every one inside had serious injuries, one died.
My own experience was a drunk driver who rammed into me at a crossroads one boxing day. He slammed into the big steel wheel and the beefy axle it was attached to. His citroen was absolutely trashed, bonnet crumpled , bumper off, the works. I had a bit of crappy citroen plastic stuck in my wheel and went about my day as normal.
I have put a fridge through the side of a Landrover panel by going around a roundabout. Big ugly gash in the soft birmabright panel. No worries though, fixed it with someone holding a sledgehammer against it and hitting it flat from the outside. Apart from the paint being marked you could never tell.
What I'm saying then is they are decent utility vehicles but terrible town cars. How they became popular for non-farming families I'll never know.
Could really use a HCPU right now though.
I used to love driving the work one. It was a laugh and gave you a good feeling, which can’t be said of most cars I’ve driven. But. It was noisy, uncomfortable, wallowy, thirsty, terrible turning circle and needed the window down so you could rest you elbow. This, however, was all part of the charm. I wouldn’t own one unless I lived on a farm.
What I’m saying then is they are decent utility vehicles
Away with your talking sense.
I would not like to crash one at motorway speeds. This current trend of making them have 200bhp plus to keep up with modern cars is stupid
55 flat out is fine. Mine can and has done 70 just to see if was possible but it's not where you want to be with it.
Has enough power to tow 3.5 ton happy enough. -had to move a 2t mini digger and buckets last month. It wasn't phased. It's regularly got 2 ton back from the quarry and timber yard as required.
Fyi those saying it they have shit brakes probably need to be doing maintainance on their calipers.... Mines had shit brakes. After a caliper rebuild with stainless pistons my mot man even said what the hell have you done to that.....nearly went through the window. Ie they were working as designed. Hugely over specced for the working weight of the base vehicle due to the GTW
As someone who drives them fairly regular in work and also sells parts for them...
I absolutely cannot understand the hype/love for them.
Slow, noisy brakes are terrible etc etc
Yes they work great off road as a farm truck etc but on road they are just not very enjoyable, it's basically a toy for offroading or something to keep you busy in the garage.
I'd absolutely have something more reliable (Japanese) if I needed something to do the same job, which is what the farmers in my family have done for 25+ years when they all binned off using land rovers and haven't got one back
Place next to where I work always have some beauties outside the workshop & I often think, 'IF i was loaded with cash I didn't mind getting rid of....'
https://bespokedefenders.co.uk/
It hasn’t been an issue at 6ft 3 . See also any other classic car for the other issue.
You must be freakishly thin then as virtually every person I know who drives them struggle to get anything close to a comfortable driving position.
As for the classic car comment, fine for the old ones but our work vehicles were bought within the last 10 years and as such should be compared to any other modern car that was also an option. They fail on that front.
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ditch_jockey
Full MemberSimilar to fransinatra – we have 2 Defenders for MRT duties. Pretty much everyone on the team hates driving them. They have a reverse tardis effect; massive outside, cramped inside. Two of our tallest team members can’t physically get behind the wheel to drive them. Braking is awful, steering is wandery, and they wallow when driven on road. They’re an absolute hoot to drive off-road; everyone suddenly thinks their ace after we’ve done our off-road driving refreshers…until we go back to driving them on tarmac.
Do you also have die hard team members who can’t entertain the idea of using any vehicle other than a defender for MR duties? To even suggest a Hilux is like insulting their beloved mother!
As for the classic car comment, fine for the old ones but our work vehicles were bought within the last 10 years and as such should be compared to any other modern car that was also an option. They fail on that front.
Can't argue with that. I haven't tried but the issue is they are a classic design. That is they were designed in 83- even before that if you go back to the roots . Little has changed.
That's either your purchasing departments fault or your managements SOR was wrong.
I'm not freakishly thin . I'm the correct weight for my height. Certainly 2 stone over what I was when I was racing - which would have been freakishly thin.
I wouldn't have a Hilux as a replacement . I have had the misfortune to do enough miles in them with work on terrain that warrents a capible 4*4 to run a country mile. Top gear has alot of mistruths to answer for on that one
Marginally better than l200 mind but still over complicated and somehow manage to be smaller inside the driver's area than my 90. Albe it our hiluxes are fitted with internal roll cages.
I'd have an old land cruiser fair play. Also spent a fair bit of time in a 6cyl relaunch of the classic square body. They kept it basic inside and it's much better for it.
Farmers round my way run Isuzu rodeos for towing and polaris/gators for actually going into the fields . Because both are better at their specific job than the land rover , both are cheaper these days.
The estates still use land rovers because that what the gun set want to see..... Traditionalism
If you want one with a wide range of specs consider importing from South Africa. No salt is used and the climate on the highveld is bone dry. They are no cheaper than here but you get a chassis and bulkhead in new condition. There are plenty of firms who specialise in buying used vehicles and shipping them back in empty FCLs but for the UK they have to be older than 7 years or 12, I can't remember.
Got two ex army Wolfs, a series 3 lightweight, and a series 1. Are they reliable, no of course not, do they drive well - nope, good off road - supposedly though I generally don’t go very far off the beaten track. Why do I spend so much time, money and effort on them - I’ve absolutely no idea, but they never fail to put a grin on my face - pays yer money and takes yer choice.
For simplicity and reliability 300tdi with R380 gearbox would be my choice. At least then most of the things that go wrong should be easily fixable.
As for values - 10 years ago I bought my series 1 as a non runner which had been parked in a garden for 20 years. I tucked it away in the garage and have only very recently started a sympathetic restoration. Even before I started on it I was offered 4 times what I paid for it - go figure!
You must be freakishly thin then as virtually every person I know who drives them struggle to get anything close to a comfortable driving position.
Pretty much my issue with Berlingos and Partners, horribly uncomfortable things, I detest them, and I’ve yet to meet a plater with a positive opinion of them, yet there are people on here who appear to like them, which is beyond my comprehension.
Sadly, I’ve never had an opportunity to drive a Defender, I have driven Jimnys, Navarra, HiLux, Rangers, Discos and Range Rover Sports, over enough miles that I wouldn’t buy a Navarra or a HiLux, far too choppy a ride, and I would guess a Defender is not unlike a Jimny, a bit choppy, not something you’d want to drive a couple of hundred miles in, but tons of fun around country lanes and off-road - I drove a Jimny back from Kingsbridge once, about 140 miles, and I’ve been in far more uncomfortable cars, that’s for sure - but I’ll reserve judgment on a Defender until I ever get a chance to drive one for a few miles.
Why would someone who prepares steel for fabrication offer an opinion on a car
#stopthemisappropriatoonofprofessions
I assumed he meant trade platers . . .
I can't decide which is worse the Landy or the house - they both need to be treated to a generous dollop of high explosive to improve them 😄
I assumed he meant trade platers
I know what he meant bit of a wierd name for *car delivery* mind. Especially when an actual plater is something else entirely.
Being an actual plater would be a useful thing owning an old land rover.
A lot of good friends have been repairing and restoring old landis for years. None of them would dream of running a defender on a daily basis. They run a Disco 4 and a Freelander 2, the freelander 2 being especially reliable (for a landrover.) In a 100k miles general maintenance with an exchange propshaft being the only expense. These vehicles are used off road extensively. I’m lucky enough to be able to borrow the Disco 4 if needed otherwise my Wife’s X1 does everything I need a 4WD to do with great economy, comfort and reliability.