[Closed] Landrover Defender

And lastly, why are they so damn expensive?!

Because people pay the prices - you being a good example of that.

I have a love hate relationship with defenders, I drive them a lot and love them but wouldn't own one.

I certainly wouldn't put kids in one though. No air bags, no impact protection, no rollover cage in standard build, no pedestrian safety, few comforts. One of the reasons they stopped producing them is that they do not meet modern safety standards. For kids they will be noisy, small, unsafe, bad for environment, no USB chargers in back.

I still think they are ace though.

There's a reason there's such a big aftermarket for Land Rover spares!

And you won't get forward facing rear seats in a 90 you need a 110 for that.

What i want is reliable.

Funny 🙂

I had one as a works car on a large road construction project. Perfect for driving around muddy sites. The noise was loud inside, especially on motorways. It was 3 years old when I got it. It broke down 5 times in the 6 months I had it. I was glad when they gave it to another on the job and I got a Nissan Navarra - a much nicer place to be sat in.
Don´t spend your full budget if you buy one as you will need a hire car often while your pride and joy sits in a Landrover Dealer getting fixed.

And you won’t get forward facing rear seats in a 90 you need a 110 for that.

But ive seen 90s with seats that fold up in the rear and when they drop down theyre forward facing?

Hmmm, reliability comments are ominous. Id hoped they would be pretty good given its a well established diesel engine and on the whole theyre pretty simple, relatively speaking.

Reliable is a misnomer.

Are you going to spanner it your self.

Are you going to be confident keeping an eye on developing issues.....

If you want modern lease car levels of reliability. Forget it *

If you want an iconic vehicle and are willing to live with its pitfalls then perhaps keep looking.....

Had mine 10 years. It's never failed to get me home in that time.....but it's been far from perfect. - but then over 10 year life span of any other vehicle I've had -neither have they. Mines 35 years old now but has had a substantial rebuild in my ownership

*As an owner enthusiast.

"reliable" look for something else then.

They are great if you like working on them in your spare time, if you want something for transport get something else, anything.

They don't go, they don't stop. don't turn, can't even really sit in them without hanging out the door.

They're the T5 in the trail centre car park, but of a different scene, if that makes sense?
Are they great? Yes, kinda. They're good off road but horrible on road. They are tiring on long journeys down to the lack of soundproofing and the basically fixed seats and steering column. I wouldn't entertain one for even a moment for daily duties for the money they fetch.
Interestingly (or not, I guess) the Defender chassis was derived from the original Range Rover chassis. They developed the Range Rover chassis, and ended up using it under the first two generations of Discovery as well. Both of which are better bets. A late Range Rover Classic is a genuine joy to drive. A Disco is comfortable and competent, but has annoying wiper stalks.
But for your money? I'd be buying a G-Wagen. Or a Land Cruiser, if I wasn't completely averse to Japanese vehicles.

You can have forward facing rear seats in 90csw . But only the more recent marques after side facing seats were banned.

But forget actually using them on a regular basis even more so with child seats ..... They are accessed by rear door and a sod to get in and out of while unfolded.

Yep - I stand corrected - just seen a few with forward facing rear seats.

There are two schools of ownership with Defenders - those that get the overalls on and spanners out at the weekend and just love everything about them (including the maintenance and mods). And those who like the image and chucking wods of cash at a Land Rover specialists at regular intervals.

They don’t go, they don’t stop. don’t turn, can’t even really sit in them without hanging out the door.

That's horse shit.its not even hyperbole it's just downright wrong.

Sure it's no r8 but it does all those things adaquately if your not racing. Or grossly over weight.

Only buy a classic range rover/MK1 disco if you like welding. Only buy a MK2 disco if you are competent to do or willing to pay for a chassis swap

Fwiw if I was buying again I'd buy a 110.

90s are tiny in the back - even a 110 isn't that great...you can only get a 29er in with a wheel off.

I loved my Range Rover Classic but yeah, it did take a bit of tickling with the MIG. And there was always something ****ty needing fixing. It had enough character, and was a pleasant enough place to be that that was entirely forgivable. I can't imagine feeling the same way about a Defender.

Fwiw i have been in and driven defenders so know what to expect from that perspective. Its a second car, something with a bit character thats fun to drive around in a way that a defender is in my opinion. The reliability aspect is key though. I wont be doing any spannering and i dont want to be constantly taking it to a garage.

I dont want a disco or range rover. G-wagon is an interesting call. Landcruiser it would have to be an old boxy one before they became all swoopy rounded japanese styled.

From what you have said .... It's not the car for you

Import patrol or land cruiser

I get to drive them for work. I have the firm opinion ONLY fashion victims buy them, because they are not functional on so many levels.

They don’t go, they don’t stop. don’t turn, can’t even really sit in them without hanging out the door.

I drive a 130 for MRT duties. It has the turning circle of a small oil tanker. Accelerates and stops fine. Whilst I wouldn't say you are hanging out of the door, you are wedged right next to a very thin door, I certainly wouldn't want to be hit from the side by another car.

Positives?
1. you feel involved in driving it, it is interesting to drive but not for any distance
2. surprisingly epic off road
3. Nope, can't think of a third.

Out trucks are really well looked after, garaged, checked non stop, always up to date with servicing and only 25k miles on the clock. But they cost a fortune to run. There is always something rusting, something not working, something needing fixed. I find it fascinating just how many ills people forgive because of the romantic notion of it being a Land Rover. They are, in most circumstances, just terrible cars.

But there is something about them which is quite special. I'm doing it again, totally contradicting myself!

Sure it’s no r8 but it does all those things adaquately if your not racing

Not by modern standards they don't not even close, especially the turning and fitting in if you are anything above average hight.

We have them at work and they are hateful things. The newest are woeful with the older ones being even nastier. Of all the vehicles I have driven (including old JCB's and Green Goddess') they are the worst. Why anyone would part with the money you have to for one is beyond me and the day the one at our station was replaced with a Transit was a very happy day.

Not by modern standards they don’t not even close, especially the turning and fitting in if you are anything above average hight.

What is average height.

It hasn't been an issue at 6ft 3 . See also any other classic car for the other issue.

It moves it stops it does the speed limit . Adaquate in my book. Doesn't need to do 0-60 I. 0.3 nano seconds for me to be happy. Maybe that's why me and it get on. The fact it can tow 3.5 ton without a grumble is probably the other reason

20k more (ok thats double the budget) for a new defender. How much would repairs be over 5 years? 😀

I've only ever had passenger rides in Defenders belonging to mates. They're an absolutely horrible place to be for any amount of time.

Buy a new Jimny if you want iconic styling. Buy a Hilux if you want something big enough to carry a Jimny.

I have Defender experience. What engine are you considering? 200/300tdi, Td5 Puma etc? Or going as modern as possible on your budget?

What i want is reliable.

Landrover Defender 90

[img] [/img]

Watch this. He is spot on.

As a toy for those who enjoy major tinkering and have extensive workshop and somewhere safe to keep it whilst it’s working/broken then they are a rewarding vehicle .
Basically unless you are a serious enthusiast or ambitious to be one try to find another way.
I only see them when they are broken at a small specialist garage but the owners of all the types from series to defender and classic Range Rover to discos are frequent visitors on 1st name terms and have deep pockets, they are all enthusiasts and all have multiple other vehicles to use.
They are somewhat like wooden motor boats to own , but not as nice to drive.

I drive a 130 for MRT duties.

@franksinatra - Your's isn't a red ex-North Yorkshire fire service wagon is it?

Lol at Hilux.

I like a Jimmy .... But iconic styling it is not. Not yet anyway. One day it maybe. Quirky doesn't make it iconic. Time makes it iconic.

A colleague bought a 110 demonstrator 6 years ago and it's worth more now than what he paid for it.

I have Defender experience. What engine are you considering? 200/300tdi, Td5 Puma etc? Or going as modern as possible on your budget?

Im not fussed. Its only going to be used as a run around so performance (said almost laughably) isnt a concern. If there was a better condition 300tdi versus a more tatty TD5 then id opt for the former. I do need a way of getting the kids in. Theyre happy climbing in the tailgate but the sideways bench seat isnt going to work. If a seat can be retrofitted to what was a bench seat then thats an option.

Will have a look at Matt’s video

I do need a way of getting the kids in.

If you are determined to go for a Defender, make it a 110 then.

I do struggle that someone's thinking of spending 15-20 k on a 300tdi/td5.

Indeed t_r, amazing prices.

I know a field with half a dozen sat, Mk1, MK2 and newer. Pic below. Perhaps time to see if there's brass to be made.

https://flic.kr/p/dJX5S1

My neighbour had a running issue with his 08 Puma 110. While it was at the garage he asked them to put it through its MOT.

Three seized brake callipers, new discs and pads, new swivels, a crank position sensor, cross threaded stub axle and a front diff with more water than oil in it.

Total repair bill £2k

Had a 90 for 3 years. Was a fun weekend off-road car but no good for daily driving. Too slow thirsty and cumbersome. Always had something that needed fixing. Leaked a lot. Ball joints needed doing. Chassis welding. Steering box replacement. Door locks were iffy. Heating was lowsy. Was ready for a gearbox rebuild but got stolen off my drive. Bought for 3k. Spent about 3.5k in maintenance in the 3 years I had it. Glad i got it out of my system. Probably won’t have another. Get a modern 4x4 instead

Indeed t_r, amazing prices.

For context I spent 2000 on the original vehicle ran it for 2 years. It spent a year off the road static. Then 9months in pieces getting a rebuild. I spent about 4k over hauling the running gear with axle rebuilds , uprated the engine and redid all the wiring to rid it of the grim messed about with wiring I inherited and replaced rear xmember / outriggers all new suspension and bushes to make it feel less like it was 30 years old

It's been on the road for last 5 years worst issue was a brake master cylinder seal and servo that failed.

It'll probably want a galv chassis and bulkhead in 5 more years....maybe we will see

The 300tdi is a solid choice due to the R380 gearbox. Kids involved, for safety I'd go 110. Proper belts in the back for them. At the upper end of your budget you will get a very good 300tdi. I'd purchase from a Land Rover specialist for extra insurance your not purchasing a dog. Nene Overland etc.

@franksinatra – Your’s isn’t a red ex-North Yorkshire fire service wagon is it?

Nope. Our pair were purchased new.

I’d purchase from a Land Rover specialist for extra insurance your not purchasing a dog. Nene Overland etc.

That was my thought.

For context I spent 2000 on the original vehicle ran it for 2 years. It spent a year off the road static. Then 9months in pieces getting a rebuild. I spent about 4k over hauling

Also wondered whether getting a more tatty but cheaper via one of the above and paying for them to overhaul it to a certain degree.

That video sums up why id like one. I know theyre generally crap in comparison to modern cars.

If it's of any use, i have one forward facing rear seat that folds in on the top of the wheel arch if you wanted. It's an Exmoor Trim one. All brackets are there but you would need to get replacement stainless fasteners. Been sat in the shed for 3 years now and I keep meaning to sell it but never get round to it.

Oh, and I've had two defenders - 90 and 110. I LOVED them both but you need to be willing (or accepting) to get the spanners out yourself.
There's no other car in history that has transcended the class boundaries I dont think.

Just do it. If you realise it's not for you, you wont lose a penny in reselling!

My mate loves his 25 year old Defender. It does have uprated suspension as he does some real off road trials in it. It's a cloth bakc as well, and never locks it - surprised it's not been stolen, but it's rough looking. It's mechanically very sound and he replaced the chassis last year by himself on his driveway.

Also wondered whether getting a more tatty but cheaper via one of the above and paying for them to overhaul it to a certain degree.

It wasn't my plan. I bought it due to where I lived to get in and out the house 4 months of the year.

Like most folk who have never had one I thought it was absolutely pointless crap and horrible thing prior to buying it.

Now I know it's a good tool and love the simplicity of it. I just have no expectations of it being a white leased audi and I have dirty hands.

Although it's hardly the same vehicle I kept mine rather than bought a newer one as it's the same age as me primarily and also I know each of its two previous owners and its lived all its days within a very specific area of significance to me.

Also wondered whether getting a more tatty but cheaper via one of the above and paying for them to overhaul it to a certain degree.

This could be a way to go. Get them to do the parts you are not confident with and the bits you do fancy rolling your sleeves up with are enjoyable and let you own the vehicle in a more personal away. I found tinkering around the edges with cosmetic/lighting upgrades eventually led me to full suspension upgrades and Zeus timing gears on my 300tdi. Defenders become addictive.

That video sums up why id like one.

Exactly. Frustrating and ridiculous as they are, they have character and make you smile.

I still wouldn't have one.