As long as I can pick the old guard Spanish and Italians, I'll be a winner.
Today for the first time in years I wear my Livestrong band.Foxtrot Oscar to all those who hate L.A
So now those in the real world as well as those of us on the internet can know what a fool you are
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-armstrong-warned-before-all-doping-controls
French attorney Thibault de Montbrial, who defended the paper in a suit filed by Armstrong against LA Confidential authors David Walsh and Pierre Ballester, thinks the cumulative pressure of authors such as these and the SCA Promotions lawsuit that followed contributed to the downfall of Armstrong.He also believes riders are still showing suspicious signs.
"Work together with Antoine Vayer [LeMond columnist], the performance specialist, helped show the implausibility of the power generated in watts on the climbs. Moreover, it is interesting to note that the UCI has banned the publication of such real-time statistics in 2012. And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s."
And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s
but their recovery isn't. remember Vino crashing one day then going on that mad solo break and climbing like a man on, er drugs?
the W/KG/hr ratios may be similar but the performances aren't
the times on the big climbs like Alpe d´huez are all a lot slower than those of the 90's.
And also remember that the French press have a long record of throwing drug allegations at successful, non-french riders like say for instance the cyclist formerly referred to as '7 time tour winner' Lance Armstrong. Just coz they happened to be right* on that occasion doesn't mean they are this time.
*or so it would appear.
I don't agree with the statement, it's just sad that for cycling this is the prevailing attitude.
It would be nice if all pharma companies put markers in their drugs so they could be identified, bu this won't help as there will always be a producer somewhere willing to ignore this.
It would also be nice if there was a requirement for all new drugs, from the initial testing phase, is submitted so the WADA can have them on file.
It would be nice if all pharma companies put markers in their drugs so they could be identified, bu this won't help as there will always be a producer somewhere willing to ignore this.
There are markers (plasticisers) only the manufacturers didn't put them there, there are also far better ways of detection by looking at other natural levels in the body affected by doping., any 'markers' would be a tiny percentage further diluted by micro dosing plus a lot of drugs are manufactured for more worthy causes ie helping the ill.
So a bit of a non starter really.
Hora, earlier today
[IMG] 
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Who is that just out of shot unzipping?
I believe Binners normally heads the queue, although (for a number of reasons) he wears a strap-on.
Lance has just issued a statement:
He's admitted doping, but has categorically denied any evidence exists to prove Hora's sanity. 🙂
piemonster - that article is retarded. For start they failed* to see that the 2012 TdF had a faster average speed than 2000 because there were less mountains.
* I suspect they "failed" on purpose!
jflecth, just punting it out there. It's not necessarily a reflection of my own opinion.
I can't help feel that after the hysteria has died away, there are going to be some people who will come across a photo of Lance and suddenly think " that man has made me look a right chump"
it is interesting to note that the UCI has banned the publication of such real-time statistics in 2012. And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s."
so they are not published but we can still tell 😕
Personally I think the fact cadel can win shows the watts has dropped unless of course someone wants to argue he got better as he got older?
It is time for a moratorium on the witch hunt for dopers. It is time to set up a new harm reduction approach to doping that bans only very unsafe substances and interventions which are inimical to sport. But Armstrong, even if the allegations were true, never used any of these.
That statement - from piemonsters article shows the quality, rationale and logic of the article. What doping is not a harm to the sport? Its sole reason is to boost your performance beyond what you can achieve via natural methods of diet and training?
It also links to death in cycling with the headline
Inquiry into Belgian cyclist's death raises new fears over EPO
Which is clearly one of the drugs LA is alleged to have taken and I am pretty sure death means it was unsafe.
Bonkers article tbh full of contradictions and gibberish like average speed which will be up if you do fewer mountain stages- and nothing on watts. Everything i have seem on W/KG says it has dropped to circa 6.2 ish when LA was circa 7 ish
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/tour-de-france/2012/stage-7.aspx#.UDpOoNba2So
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18921784
Dr Tucker says you can see a marked difference between today and the bad old days when there were no tests for blood doping or drugs such as EPO.
"In the late 1990s and early 2000s if you were going to be competitive and win the Tour de France you would have to be able to cycle between 6.4 and 6.7 watts per kilogram at the end of a day's stage.
"What we are seeing now, in the last three or four years, is that the speed of the front of the peloton [of] men like Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome and Vincenzo Nibali, is about 10% down compared to that generation and now the power output at the front is about 6W/kg."
Nibalii did less than 6 on stage 11
If I nip down to the local Nike outlet store do you think i can get my hands on some yellow and black cycling kit going cheap?
Paul Kimmage interview
I don't think he likes Lance much
3 whistle blowers -
The journalist
"I wrote four books about the guy. All the evidence was out there since 2004 and people will still say there is no evidence. To me there was a wilful conspiracy on the part of sporting officials, journalists, broadcasters, everybody. Now we see the fruits of it: high-level cycling has been destroyed by corruption.
"I would have preferred it if Lance Armstrong had gone to a tribunal and we would have had all the evidence out there. But he has decided to accept these charges because it was the lesser of two evils from his perspective.
"It is not good for him because he has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and has been given a lifetime ban. He has lost every victory he has had since 1998, but the alternative was even worse – to have a tribunal in which the evidence from 10 former team-mates who all say they saw him doping would have been aired in graphic detail.
"That detail would have portrayed Lance Armstrong as a doper. It would have opened the eyes of the public to what the US Anti-Doping Agency believe was one of the greatest, most sophisticated doping conspiracies in the history of sport.
"How did Armstrong get away with this for all these years? Who was complicit in helping him avoid detection? Because there is one certainty – he did not do this without help.
"Bradley Wiggins is the patron of the Tour and the whole sport. As the winner, he is the spiritual and almost moral leader of the peloton. As an anti-doping Tour winner, I would expect Bradley to say this is good for the sport … we want the guys who cheated to be outed, but there is not a lot of that coming from the sport and that makes me wonder if they are truly committed to cleaning themselves up."
David Walsh, author and sportswriter on the Sunday Times, has written four books on Lance Armstrong. He was speaking to BBC Radio 5 on Friday
The masseuse
As Lance Armstrong's masseuse, Emma O' Reilly saw much of the cyclist's body and spent a lot of time with him after his races. She was also a key member of the US Postal cycling team during the 1999 Tour de France and was given important tasks.
O'Reilly was a source for David Walsh's book about Armstrong, LA Confidentiel. According to the book, O'Reilly said she heard team officials worrying about Armstrong's positive test for steroids during the Tour. She said: "They were in a panic, saying: 'What are we going to do? What are we going to do?'?"
Their solution was to get one of their compliant doctors to issue a pre-dated prescription for a steroid-based ointment to combat saddle sores. O'Reilly said she would have known if Armstrong had saddle sores as she would have administered any treatment for it.
O'Reilly said that Armstrong told her: "Now, Emma, you know enough to bring me down." O'Reilly said on other occasions she was asked to dispose of used syringes for Armstrong and pick up strange parcels for the team.
In a letter to Bill Strickland, a Bicycling magazine correspondent, last year, O'Reilly described her experience. "Since I spoke to David Walsh, I have received so many subpoenas that the policewoman who brought them got friendly enough with my boyfriend that she would call before coming and he'd put the kettle on for her.
"If my word is so worthless, why did I go to France and testify to the French drug squad? I worked the '98 Tour de France, and I know how scary these guys can be, yet I was prepared to go to France, to their territory. I went because I was telling the truth, and also because a certain Mr Armstrong sued me for a million euros because of my interview with David … why did Lance feel the need to terrorise me for more than two years? Why did Lance feel the need to try to break me?"
The cyclist
Christophe Bassons became an accidental star of road cycling when he was the only member of the notorious Festina team who was not implicated in drug-taking. His reputation as an honest cyclist made it impossible for him to prosper in the world of professional cycling in the 1990s.
Festina was immersed in scandal in 1998 when a carload of drugs for the team was discovered. In the subsequent police investigation, Bassons was the one rider who emerged with his character enhanced after his team-mates told police that he was the only cyclist who did not take drugs.
From obscurity, Bassons emerged as one of the few cyclists who would criticise drug-taking in the sport. He spoke for many when he complained that the sport had "two speeds", one for the drug-takers and one for people like who him who did not cheat.
During the 1999 Tour de France Bassons was asked to write a column for the newspaper, Le Parisen. The Tour featured the return of Lance Armstrong after his battle with cancer. Basson wrote that the riders were shocked by the speed of Armstrong. Armstrong later cycled up to Bassons to remonstrate with him and encouraged him to leave the Tour. Later on French TV, Armstrong admitted the conversation. "His accusations aren't good for cycling, for his team, for me, for anybody. If he thinks cycling works like that, he's wrong and he would be better off going home," he said.
Other riders threatened him and most ignored him. Bassons could not take the pressure and left the Tour.
Bassons tried to race elsewhere but his reputation preceded him and he gave up in 2001. The cyclist had been a very successful amateur rider but his professional career was overshadowed by his refusal to take drugs and remain quiet about it. He now works for the French ministry of sports and youth, with responsibility for drug testing.
(I think) a total of 9 witnesses was going to take the stand against him. Above is just 3 of them
And there's more.
Talk of masking agents on this article
Kimmage on talksport after 7pm tonight (lets hope they dont have Tony Doyle on after his BBC Radio appearance)
Ooh what did Doyle say?
Big Mig voices his opinion
Oh, and some bloke from the UCI
Does anyone think Indurain was clean?
From the same guy that wrote the 'practical ethics' blog
"So how pervasive is doping? "Some years ago a study found that 90% of athletes would dope if they were sure not to be caught; 50% would still dope if it would guarantee a win but kill them in five years,"
Julian Savulescu
Crikey
No!
cynic-al - MemberOoh what did Doyle say?
Massive LA sympathiser. Churning out all the 'he's then most tested athlete ever' etc etc . Quite embarrassing as he seemed to be caught out a few times when asked questions.
also ..Kimmage on R5
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01m1kqx
20 mins in , not great but interviewer clearly has no idea what he is on about and Kimmage gets the hump with him.
cynic-al - MemberDoes anyone think Indurain was clean?
Interesting. Does anyone think Indurain did EPO given Riis's destruction of him on hautacam.
clean ...No, did he do EPO ??
LOL @ that R5 Kimmage interview...
Does anyone think Indurain was clean?
No although the only thing he ever tested positive for was salbutamol and even that wasn't strictly illegal back then.
Interetsingly, Indurain has also come out very much in the defence of Armstrong saying that until there is one body recognised by all as the overseer with the power to do this, then he should keep his titles.
He's got a point. LA's guilt or innocence is very much a sideshow to the whole "bring him down at all costs" attitude shown by USADA and that's what I find the most troubling of all this. Clemency shown to others if they'll testify. No power (or willingness) to do the same to all the hundreds of other dopers. If you do this to LA, then everyone else should be treated the same. You may as well just rip up the results sheets of pretty much every Pro Tour race ever.
piemonster where are you getting these links from
the UCI has had a bit of a spat re jurisdiction but the position is clear both from WADA and the US judge
Under the code they USADA issue a report - he is guilty as charged and should be stripped. they say this to UCI who then implement it. the press release fomr them seems clear what the report will say.
UCI's only options are
1. Ignore it and have cycling kicked out of WADA and therefore lot of sporting events like the olympics. This would seem unlikely as i suspect a new organisation would be recognised for cycling and people move to that. I just cannot see this happening
2. UCI to take a case to the sport arbitration court but the grounds of their appeal would be interesting not least because they do have authority and the charged person did not contest so I am not sure what grounds they would use tbh.
I doubt, given the vrijman report the UCI really want a war with WADA tbh but i dont expect them to move quickly either but they will say they object strongly, disagree etc but say they have no choice - bit like LA did.
Talksport interview is great...listen again on T'sport website when its done. Interviewers are on the ball.
LOL @ that R5 Kimmage interview...
Kimmage doesn't suffer fools does he 😀
Does anyone think Indurain was clean?
Get ye behind me!
Kimmage doesn't suffer fools does he
I wonder what he would make of Hora? 🙄
Sadly I put money in his pocket buying his drivel.
He needs to get out more. Abit like you.
Paul Kimmage REALLY doesn't like Lance
I'm going to walk away from this thread now and finally (but without surprise) accept those geezers I cheered climbing Ardiden where whacked up on scooby snacks, sad and a shame.
Frustrated minor result Tour Jocks take drugs just to stay in a professional cycling job. Get caught or worry about it coming out one day so decide to secretly repent and blacken someones name who they envy for his success.
Meanwhile a once slighted minor cycling journalist decides to ride on his back with attacks to make a living out of it.
Folks remember this Arbitration if Lance went ahead with this he could have been stripped without a failed test just testimonies of liers, fraudsters and cheats. The USADA claims jurisdiction to ban/strip Lance when his last Tour title was in 2005.
Im out.
I've stayed away from this thread, but I have to say, hora, you really, really have not got the slightest clue what you are talking about. It's sad tbh
Get over yourself
Can someone please supply a link so I can listen to that talksport discussion. Can't find it. Thanks
I'm starting to despise Mr Armstrong, shame as its his stance (not the drug taking) that has caused this reaction
You are quite close to out of your mind with that assessment Hora
Get over yourself
Seems he speaks for the forum and all rational thinkers
your "defence" is as straw man wrapped in some ad hominems with a liberal dose of inaccuracies
For example it is know that his masseuse would testify and also that a Dr was going to say that he tested positive in the tour de Swiss. i am not sure how they fit your view of envious liars and cheats tbh
Its like you think everyone had a reason to lie except LA - like he would have no reason to deny he cheated eh
It is well know than many cheats have passed all the tests and it is hardly a precedent to convict without a failed drug test [ he has failed them though]- would you like names just from cycling or other sports as well?
liers, fraudsters and cheats
You are talking about Lance right?
Keep digging hora, you might strike gold.
hora: What do you take away from LA's decision not to go to arbitration? Do you take this at "face value", ie fed up with the sniping and hassle / witch hunt?
Bear in mind that this decision would have been poured over from every angle by a very senior legal team... Each option would have been examined minutely for the various legal and reputational / PR ramifications.
