MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Has this really gone downhill or did we catch them on an off day?
God I hope not! Love that cafe...
Still great the last time I was there.
Based on our most recent experience there (last year) I'd say yes. Two words came to mind - health - hazzard.
Been fine all the times I've been. More hub than peel centre though.
OP - what was the problem?
OP - what was the problem?
Really surly (no pun intended) service.
Really slow service when there was no-one else being served.
A tuna pannini which only contained the suspicion of tuna.
Dirty cutlery and crockery.
Sticky tables.
Filled with smoke from burning oil in the kitchen.
Having to listen to the staff slagging of a biker walking past outside in quite inappropriate terms.
I'm really not fussy but all of that put together with a couldn't care less attitude rather tempered my enjoyment.
I do hope they're reading this. Captive audience of punters = sod all motivation.
I had a similar experience to slim
Captive audience of punters = sod all motivation.
That was the feeling I got.
Sadly, I too got the feeling they were not bothered.
My son stood at counter, behind one bloke who was clearly known to the cafe, and my son was ignored. My lad just had cake n coke, but after 5mins of him not coming back out, I went in to check and when asked to pay got a silent response and a hand stuck out - the conversation with bloke carried on without even acknowledging I and son were there - just change handed silently back.
I'd have walked out. I cant stand lack of acknowledgement or manners. If you dont like your job eff off and let someone else have a go.
Dont get me started on staff having conversations whilst you're waiting.
Just to add that the Forestry Commission did a survey last year on the visitor experience at Laggan to inform the future development of the facility, and I made my feelings about the cafe known on that. In line with the OP's observations and some ...
someone should send them a link to this
My experience of the Wolftrax cafe is also negative.
We went recently with the kids and the first impression of the cafe was a badly scrawled sign stating "These are NOT public toilets". Nice. Once inside the NOT public toilets there were further signs commanding users to take their own rubbish home as "we are a private business".
The unique welcome continued inside I ordered some lunch for the family. Tomato soup, the boys favourite, was on the menu so I requested two child's portions. A disembodied voice from the kitchen barked that they only do adult portions as the soup came in cans. I ordered hoping that the boys were hungrier than usual.
When the food arrived it was delivered sporadically and dumped on our table with no comment. Consuming it was a pleasure-less experience. Now when we visit Laggan we take our own snack and a flask.
TJ - I sincerely hope that the FC are aware of the poor image the proprietors project of a great destination in the national park.
Can't say this reflects my experiences of the place tbh.
I thought it was ok, bit rough and ready but no real problems.
The toilets are for facility users and why should they pay to have your rubbish disposed of?
Moan to FC on these points if you have an issue with it. Would you expect a restaurant you weren't dining at to let you use their facilities?
The toilets are for facility users
Are you really sure about the FC terms for the provision of toilets at Laggan? I doubt you are.
Would you expect a restaurant you weren't dining at to let you use their facilities?
It's not a restaurant (Oh no). It's a prime visitor attraction in the heart of the national park. As such it should be welcoming to all visitors. Sadly the proprietors are the diametrical opposite.
Moan to FC on these points if you have an issue with it.
That is the only sensible comment in your post, so yes I will complain to the FC, it seems their email address is invernessross&skye@forestry.gsi.gov.uk. Thanks for the suggestion!
Are you really sure about the FC terms for the provision of toilets at Laggan? I doubt you are.
Are you?
I'm not sure there aren't, but I can't think of another FC car park in the Cairngorms NP with free toilet and rubbish dumping facilities.
To put this in context, I've been on the receiving end of enough traditional highland welcomes in my time. I've just not experienced the poor service mentioned at Laggan in my many trips to the place.
Maybe voicing your concerns at the time of receiving the shonky service may also help.
Maybe voicing your concerns at the time of receiving the shonky service may also help too.
I did that and the response was not a model of good customer service!
Are you?
Sorry, I should have been clear that "I doubt you are" was a euphemism for "you are wrong".
Maybe voicing your concerns at the time of receiving the shonky service may also help.
As a consumer I prefer to make a resolution to spend no more money at sub-standard establishments such as Laggan Wolftrax. I also make a concerted effort to alert other consumers that there are better establishments to bless with their custom.
To be clear the issue here was not the result of a mistake that could be rectified with a discussion, it was the extreme rudeness of the staff and proprietors. One chance only.....
Can't say it was great last time I went either! The younger lass seemed much friendlier than the dismbodied shouty voice in the kitchen though.
Spin - guess you might get a better response here:
That is the only sensible comment in your post, so yes I will complain to the FC, it seems their email address is invernessross&skye@forestry.gsi.gov.uk. Thanks for the suggestion!
My thoughts on this echo bigyinn's
Can't say my experience was favourable either.
bG - as I have no evidence to the contrary, I will defer to your more informed position.
Good luck with your complaint to the FC.
i've never been too impressed with it (especially with the rather fine Laggan Tearoom and Pottery just down the road). I always felt that the people who run the Wolftrax tearoom were much less commited to the project than the 2 guys who gave up their office jobs to set up this amazing trail centre...maybe the cafe staff thought they'd drawn the short straw running the cafe...I'm not sure I wouldn't get peed-off and depressed being stuck in there.
always found the foxy lady quite friendly and service good!
Don't be British. If they are crap. tell them. It's the only way we can improve Britain's mediocre attempt at the service industry.
But be constructive at the same time - Are they visitscotland members? Have they taken the opportunities for training and considered grading to maintain standards? If not. Perhaps they should join. They should also consider contributing time and effort to any local Tourist assoc. or marketing group.
Have I always been "lucky" then? I've never had any issue there at all. The staff have always been pleasant.
That thing about leaving rubbish is fair enough. As a commercial enterprise, they have to pay to have rubbish uplifted. Why should they pay for non-customers rubbish too?
We appreciate all feedback we receive whether it be positive and negative, in all situations their are two sides to every story. I don't believe in being drawn into to mud slinging exercises on a forum as it doesn't have any positive outcome, we would much prefer any customer who has an issue to come forward at the time. On this occasion I feel we should provide a response, their may well be some things that the staff could have done better but I don't believe it was as bad as some individuals would have you believe. I am not going to pretend that the facilities are not now showing their age at Wolftrax, they are and it is a very challenging environment for our staff to work in, especially through the Winter months. The buildings that are currently in place are on temporary planning and were only meant to last a maximum of 5 years not the current 7.5 years. As things stand at the moment our current lease from the FC runs out at the end of this year with no guarantees for the future unless a new Forest Centre can be funded and constructed, a challenge in the current financial climate. Believe me we want to offer our customers and staff better facilities but it is impossible to invest a considerable amount of money and time in something you may not have in less than 12 months time. Some may just get their wish and be able to sit in the car park with their packed lunch and no facilities what so ever.
Finally just to clarify -
The apparent slagging of a rider was with regards to him riding without a helmet and the madness of it given the injuries we see on a regular basis to riders riding with helmets.
As a private business we have to pay for refuge collection at considerable cost, we are happy to dispose of rubbish that is related to products purchased from us. If you want bins in the Car Park for your personal rubbish ask the FC to provide them, have a look in other FC car parks in the area, I doubt you will find any.
Happy trails folks!
so not your fault then, it s them pesky customers 😆
Let me start Wolverine, by saying that I [b]want[/b] to like the Wolftrax cafe. That just hasn't been very easy the last couple of times I've visited.
I don't believe in being drawn into to mud slinging exercises on a forum as it doesn't have any positive outcome, we would much prefer any customer who has an issue to come forward at the time.
What you have here is far from mud slinging just myself and others airing some pretty straightforward hygiene / customer service issues. For what it's worth I did come forward at the time and got pretty short shrift.
I think everyone appreciates the issues you face with the building however that is no excuse for most of the issues raised on here. We don't expect silver service we do expect a clean environment and prompt, polite service.
The apparent slagging of a rider was with regards to him riding without a helmet and the madness of it given the injuries we see on a regular basis to riders riding with helmets.
Admirable sentiments. However it was the comments on the chaps baldness I thought inappropriate.
My suggestion to you would be that instead of thinking in terms of excuses for these issues you should start thinking in terms of solutions.
Looking at the FC site [url= http://www.forestry.gov.uk/wolftrax#Fac ]Laggan Wolftrax[/url], I'd have the impression that toilets are available. If the facilities are only for people who buy food in the cafe, that should probably be made clear, so that people know they'll have to take a dump in the forest!
I haven't been up at Laggan for about a year, but I thought the cafe was okay when we went - not particularly memorable for either good or bad reasons.
Meh, I *want* to support local business such as this, and have no issue at all with either paying to park, or going for a brew, or buying stuff from the shop while there. In fact, I would try to do so to support such a business, and try to do it wherever we go. It is still a cheap day out, even if it is family meal at cafe or a shiny bike part.
I can also cope with less than perfect buildings and facilities - IMO it is simple fact of how FC/other landlords run stuff, and frankly I don't care about posh new builds and £m's stupidity. I care about the place, the riding and the wee business making a living for someone.
I was dissapointed in the lack of care that the wee business (the cafe) was showing. The shop and uplift on the other hand was as friendly as and great 🙂
Power of the internet and all that, wolverine turns up and gets feedback and sticks head above parapet. Fair play.
It won't stop me going, and it won't stop me spending a few quid while there.
I found it OK when I was there last year.
Fair play to Wolverine for replying, its not easy to please all the people all the time.
Sometimes though the standards of service in Scotland really lack what it should be. Each customer is special and deserves to be treated as if they are, whether they are asking directions, buying a mars bar or a slap up meal for 12, they all should get first class service. It does not cost anything to be polite, attentive and friendly.
I was in there a couple of years ago and even then the place was showing it's age a bit, and I can appreciate that that is something that Wolverine (are you the owner?) can probably do little about.
What you/they can do something about is the standard of service, which is entirely non-reliant on the facilities, costs nothing yet can reap massive rewards. When I was there there service was pretty slow (and we were the only two in there) and, frankly, a bit surly. It annoys me to get the impression that I'm causing an inconvenience by walking into an establishment (cafe/shop/whatever) and asking for the service that they are there to provide. That was, I have to say, the impression I got at Laggan.
[i]To put this in context, I've been on the receiving end of enough traditional highland welcomes in my time.[/i]
Yep, me too - which is why we've not been back (north of 7-Stanes) for nearly 10 years now. I spent many happy holidays when younger in the Highlands and managed to persuade my wife to take a holiday there. Never again.
Spent the same as going to Barbados (which we did the year before, and then the year after).
Far too expensive and just felt like a penned cash-cow.
Was there on Friday, nothing has changed from the comments made previosly. Surly service, staff got flustered when more than 3 customers gathered at the serving counter, no idea how to make a hot chocolate but made a perfect Luke warm chocolate. Food that was coming out didn't look that great IMHO. Home bakes were ok on the plus side.Hand was outstretched looking for payment before informing customer of amount owed, give me a idea of how much 1st.
What is the obsession with "do you want cheese with that" with everything?
Was there any need for the staff member to be doing the ironing in the seated area?
[Sometimes though the standards of service in Scotland really lack what it should be]
I have found the further away you go from the big cities the service is lacking all over the UK.
The shop, cafe and uplift at Laggan are all closing down in October.
As for the general level of service on Scotland, I must be incredibly lucky because I never have any problems and I probably get around the place more than most.
Any idea why Driudh? Is it that they can't really make a go of it or is there more FC stuff in the background?
The shop, cafe and uplift at Laggan are all closing down in October.
Oh I hadn't heard that either. It really has gone a bit downhill though. I take it they'll be concentrating on the Grantown shop, which is fine by me as it's only just up the road 😀
Shame to hear its all closing,never had major issues
With the cafe ...seahouse are you implying shoddy service
is a Scottish phenomenon?
as Ive always found that the couldn't give a toss attitude
stretches far and wide
anyone know what's happening to the cafe/shop at Ae?
[Sometimes though the standards of service in Scotland really lack what it should be]I have found the further away you go from the big cities the service is lacking all over the UK.
Bar/food service in the Torridon inn was fantastic. Can't recommend it enough.
I'd say service in terms of friendliness in general is pretty good in the Highlands - never felt the need to make generalised negative comments.
Re Laggan - shame it's all going - I wonder if this is politics/the need for capital investment thats not coming or lack of trade? There are plenty of places in the area with less apparent business that seem to be surviving. The cafe has always been just about OK when I've been there - nice enough food and drink but not always super welcoming. I too have had to cut into converations between serving staff and obviously well known punters/their mates to actually get served with looks that make you feel you are a bit of an inconvenience.
I hope this dosn't mean they are going to let the trails standard slip too.
druid - where did you hear that?
The shop, cafe and uplift at Laggan are all closing down in October.
Could that be the end of the "season"? We were up there last year in September and the place was pretty quiet, admittedly the weather was absolutely attrocious so probably put a few folks off.
Just for the record, I used the trails on two occasions and the cafe was closed on both. Trails were excellent tho. 😀
it'd be a real loss if the shop/cafe was to shut there. Stupid, in fact, since they're part of what makes the centre what it is and they help to attract people- and wolftrax has been a massive success in terms of local benefits.
I think both shop and cafe could be better, though- cafe is a bit erratic and it does look a tip these days, though tbh I don't have any problem eating there either.
The Laggan Forest Trust (a partnership between FCS and the local community) has a project to develop the trail head area. That would include a new shop, cafe, meeting area and possible a campsite. I don't know how much progress has been made or when it would likely open.
FFS! I take it most of the folk complaining have never spent any time outdoors camping etc? The staff at Laggan operate a service in the middle of nowhere, in makeshift accommodation, and you expect starbucks/Costa(insert coffee house of choice) get a ****ing grip.
'Ooh my half caff, skinny mochalatte is cold' shame!
Just a smile and some friendly chat would suffice 🙄
The nearby pottery / cafe / bunkhouse is a shining example of very pleasant service, good food and hot drinks. No-one expects perfection but it really isn't that hard to train staff to smile.
EDIT; [url= http://www.potterybunkhouse.co.uk/ ]This place[/url] is the pottery / bunkhouse.
I find if I want the feeling of camping, I tend to go camping. I have never had bad service at Laggan, however it appears many have. In reality if a business is in the middle of nowhere wants to succeed it will have to work doubly hard to try to ensure people will want to travel that far to use it.
Another vote for the cafe in the pottery down the road.
Always make a trip to Laggan Stores too for trail treats - the guy who runs it is a real star.
Service at the cafe at the trail head is bloody awful .... food is ok but they're just unbelievably miserable. A smile costs nothing 🙂
I called in for a coffee a couple of months back after riding the trails, probably the first punter of the day as it was quite early. The service was fine but quite shocked to see the previous days dirty dishes piled high whilst the single member of staff was busy doing her crossword. Created an instant bad impression.
Wolftrax needs a significant investment in infrastructure at the trailhead. When the current operators won the tender at the start of the project, I'm certain that they would have thought twice if they knew that 8 years later they'd still be operating out of Portacabins. I'm sure that perpetual Portacabins wasn't the deal they signed up to. I have some friends who considered tendering and quitting 9-5 jobs when the Wolftrax ball started rolling. They are very glad they didn't now.
As far as I am aware FCS have stopped investing in Wolftrax, and the income for trail development/maintenance is the carpark takings. FCS don't even supply material anymore.
The sad thing is that Laggan is a small trail centre where small loops return you to the cafe area. Ride, coffee, ride, cake, ride... It is a formula that works well, particularly with mixed ability groups or kids. Wolftrax also needs a longer easier route like a blue. The current orange was blue, but was re graded following injuries and a re-sculpt.
Maybe someone else will come along and take over the Cafe and Shop, but would YOU with "buildings" that are in that state?
Never mind dmbins or whatever the acronym is will sort it out, With their 250,000 a year budget.
You can have bad experiences anywhere, I tried to book accomodation at the Pottery bunkhouse but they never answered the phone or returned my messages so I had to find somewhere else. We spent last weekend at Comrie Croft and although I can't report on the trails the cafe was excellent, their carrot cake is very good and the skills loop and pump track is well situated nearby. Hope they succeed and manage to increase the amount of trails they have.
Hope it gets the upgrade. Food was fine if arrival a bit sparodic but I have to agree about the staff, not the most welcoming or happy, on the several times I've been, and customer seemed to be second.
Mind you the Peel centre has lost my custom too. Longest wait for mediocrity in a while.
Most of the best tourist/customer service businesses in Scotland are run by English people. 😉
The shop, cafe and uplift at Laggan are all closing down in October.
That's a real shame, I love Laggan. It's been really busy a few times when I've been there too. The uplift is probably a wee bit short to be really worthwhile though.
As always there are two sides to every story. My understanding of this is in line with Druidh's, although I thought the shop may have been staying.
I'm glad to see Wolverine has decided to put their side of the story on here for everyone to read. I have never had a bad day out at Laggan. I've always found the service to be great & the staff friendly & helpful to a point above & beyond etc. Where else can you get an 8 speed cassette supplied & fitted at 09.00 in the morning with a smile & for the price of the parts ?
If & when the facilities do close I for one will miss them. It's usually the first & last stop for me on any highland trailcentre roadtrip & the place has a lot to offer.
I wish Lindsay & Gail all the best for the future & for all the hard work they've put into Wolftrax.
Dave.
http://www.lagganforest.com/projects.asp
LFT Business Development Project
The Laggan Forest Trust team are currently working on the LFT Business Development Project. This will result in the creation of a new Forest Centre at Laggan Wolftrax at Strathmashie. The new facilities will be designed for the benefit of visitors and the local community alike. They will include a bike shop, café, toilets and showers, as well as workshops and space for events and LFT’s office. Watch this space for further news as developments progress
Sad to hear about this.
I second Dave's best wishes for Lindsay and Gail .
I never had anything but a good experience at Wolftrax .
At least the bunkhouse wifie will be pleased (soon to be the new cake supplier ?)
Any time I stayed,she always sounded well pissed off ,about the cafe stealing so much of her trade.
Gutted to hear the news that the cafe and bike shop is closing and that there is currently no one else taking over. Always had great service from the cafe and shop and totally perfect for refuelling wet and muddy bikers! Problem with forums relating to service industries is they're a place for moaning and winging about not really important things! Totally wish Basecamp Bikes all the best and I look forward to the development of Glenlivet and their involvement with that.
LFT Business Development Project
The Laggan Forest Trust team are currently working on the LFT Business Development Project. This will result in the creation of a new Forest Centre at Laggan Wolftrax at Strathmashie. The new facilities will be designed for the benefit of visitors and the local community alike. They will include a bike shop, café, toilets and showers, as well as workshops and space for events and LFT’s office. Watch this space for further news as developments progress
Yeah, that'll be when the funding's in place to do the work. I for one won't be holding my breath. From my very limited understanding of this it could be some time before that's the case.
D.
[b] OK BROTHERS! I HEAR YOU!
Im a local, and live in a biking family. We love the trax, like u guys do, but, yes, the cafe has lost its way a bit. Sadly, Gail IS going in Oct, but FEAR NOT! there WILL be a cafe and a BIKE SHOP.... AND A NEW VISITORS CENTRE.
The thing is, some of us are thinking about taking over the cafe.... bring it back to its hey-day, give bikers what they need. a smile, a chat, a bog they can use, some good energy giving scran and a decent cuppa. BUT, we need to know that you guys will come back and give us another go.
Noone likes how it is at the moment, including the staff. it cant be fun trying to run something good in what is basically a shed. (also finding staff is a bitch round here...theres only about 5 people who live here lol, so we aint got a lot to work with,and it hasnt made for silver service)
the new centre wont be over the top, and theres a good fight on to make sure that BIKING is what comes first, (despite plenty of local politics)
SO, i guess this is a "holding post" - give us a bit of time, dont right the trax off yet, keep the faith, and us locals will see what we can do,
Good luck with it all and I hope everything works out. Laggan is a great place - one of my favourites - small but perfectly formed trails.
If you
then of course people will be back. If you read between the lines of all that got written up there ^^^ all people were asking for was polite, 'give a damn' service in a clean & cared for environment. Doesn't seem too much for the paying customer to ask.bring it back to its hey-day, give bikers what they need. a smile, a chat, a bog they can use, some good energy giving scran and a decent cuppa.
There will always be a market for a well run trail head cafe that understands and is interested in its customers. Look forward to being back in the area when you are up and running - good luck with it!
we need to know that you guys will come back and give us another go.
If you can do what you mention then I don't think there is a person on here that wouldn't give you a chance.
The price of a coffee and a cake is usually burning a hole in my pocket down at Wolftrax. Give me somewhere clean to sit and dish it up with a smile and that money is yours.
Good luck.
Ditto
Post ride coffee and cake make mountain biking what it is! 😀 AND you have superb trails - good luck!
Phantomnessie....were you sporting a mohican hair-do the last time we spoke or am I thinking of someone else ? 8)
D.
I was there for a half day last week. I'll visit whenever I'm in the highlands. It's my favourite trail centre in the UK. The black trail is insane.
Phantomnessie.....|Definately keen to get up to Wolftrax as often as possible if there is a cafe to shelter/buy tea and cake in. Its my favourite trail centre and having a cafe there is essential to the enjoyment of the trails given the short nature of the loops. It makes for a great day out for a large/mixed group.
Service in cafe has been lacking at times and I'm sure the current building must be a nightmare to work in, but the relaxed feel of the building fits with mountain biking better than the likes of the new Glentress Peel.
Great to hear that you're trying to keep the focus on biking rather than flashy "visitor centre".
A blue trail would be a welcome addition to Wolftrax if you have any influence over the FC as it would broaden its appeal and make it more family friendly.