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"Ok then… I’ll bite. So exactly what would you suggest that we, as individuals, do to combat knife crime? Seeing as this is apparently the answer to societies ills…
Some actual concrete suggestions?"
Be prepared to pay more tax to pay for the stuff you think the government isn't providing or plant some money trees.
Actually get involved in community projects and activities for young people. Even if its organising stuff for your and friends kids. Do it regularly not just a one off.
Stop moaning and being all PC when the police are doing their job and stopping and searching people.
Report sightings and young people you suspect might actually be part of the problem.
And don’t just say ‘bring your kids up properly’. I’ve two teenage daughters who have been brought up ‘properly, and I’d suggest that despite what the Daily Mail would have us believe, people who don’t bring their kids up ‘properly’ are a tiny minority, otherwise they’d all be knifing each other"
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If your assertion is correct then we don't actually have a problem.
But the biggest thing you can do its just ask the question "What can I do to help" and do it.
And you think that plenty of us aren't doing those things already?
Or is that just you? Spreading your benevolence, from your ivory tower, to a grateful nation?
"And you think that plenty of us aren’t doing those things already?
Or is that just you? Spreading your benevolence, from your ivory tower, to a grateful nation?"
I think a few are doing this already, deffo not plenty. In facr very few people are doing it. Hardly any, very small % indeed.
Why do you think I am somehow in an Ivory tower? I am as guilty as the next man. I just realise that its not the government its us. Don't get me wrong we have a crap government too, but we have the government we deserve. If they did the right thing we would never re-elect them.
I don't understand why you seem so hurt about the fact I am pointing out that as a nation we are we are pretty selfish. Yeah some people are better than others, but on the whole we all could do a lot more to make the UK and the world a better place. Yet everyday we choose not too.
I hope to god I never end up as cynical as you.
You've stated that 'We are all too greedy, apathetic and selfish.'
I don't think the majority of us are, at all. Far from it. I think the vast majority of people are decent, charitable and caring and do all they can to make society better. Having a wife who works in the charity sector I see this on a daily basis in the shear amount of people who give up their time to do charity work to make our society a bit better. But 'Most People are Actually Quite Nice!' doesn't make good newspaper headlines, does it?
But we're discussing knife crime. And with an issue like that, by its very nature it requires action at a government level, from a government that has given a collective shrug of disinterest. As has been mentioned countless times already there have been programmes that have addressed the issue successfully, but it requires joined up, creative solutions from those in power, involving numerous agencies.
Being collectively nicer isn't really going to cut it
I agree with you Binners, most people are "Actually quite nice" but most are pretty ineffectual when it comes to actually doing stuff which inconveniences them. Nice does not mean they can be bothered to lead a Scout trip at the weekend.
So Binners what should the government do that's free? and what can the government do thats not free that you are prepared to pay for? How much more tax are you prepared to pay each month to combat knife crime? Put some figures on it.
I certainly wouldn't mind paying more tax if it meant a better society. You'll be unsurprised to find out I've never voted Tory and never would. I loathe them!
But you say 'what can we do for free?' I think you could probably do a lot more with a simple change of priority.
My wife went into a school yesterday which has a food bank affiliated to it so the kids from poor families can actually eat. So we can't feed families but we've got 80 billion quid to spunk on HS2. And the cock-ups of Chris Grayling alone have cost the taxpayer 2.7 billion. Its insane!
I think the root cause of knife crime and so many other things are priorities like this. The inequality in our society is an absolute disgrace, and this government doesn't seem to give a toss about it or the problems it creates.
the solution to this doesn't lie in more police, it lies in giving some hope to young people who feel (rightly IMHO) that they've been abandoned, and have little, if anything, to lose
"the solution to this doesn’t lie in more police, it lies in giving some hope to young people who feel (rightly IMHO) that they’ve been abandoned, and have little, if anything, to lose"
That is something ALL of us could help with, if we all spent 1 weekend every 3 months organising group activities for young people. There would be loads of stuff going on in the country. Kids would be seeing there is so much more out there and that people care.
For me the the reason I don't do more with stuff like that is the fact that the law makes it really hard to do it. We worry more about things that are not a threat to kids than we do the things that at really are a threat to them.
Stop moaning and being all PC when the police are doing their job and stopping and searching people.
By that do you mean stop complaining when they are ineffectually targeting black youths because they are black rather than using any intelligence. As was pointed out in Scotland the stop and search was carried out in a very different way and was effective.
As was pointed out in Scotland the stop and search was carried out in a very different way and was effective.
It was claimed, I'm not sure it's was true:
Looks to be like that did 19 times more S+S, which is *exactly* what Bazzers is suggesting we tolerate.
Looks to be like that did 19 times more S+S, which is *exactly* what Bazzers is suggesting we tolerate.
No the suggestion was to stop being PC or translated accept being a bit racist. That also has to be part of something much bigger, on it's own it will just alienate people and make the polices job even harder.
Being bored because I’m ill and off work decided to look at the last 20 years of homicide data and particularly that caused by ‘sharp objects’ (Govt classification). The Govt seems to only present the data in bar charts or just the data and at first glance the rise in number in 2018 looks alarming. However, put all the data in to a Statistical Process Control (SPC) chart and none of the data points for the 20 years including 2018 crosses the upper or lower control lines ie the data, including 2018, and there are not enough data points below mean or median to be certain anything that has been done over recent years has made a difference ie almost all annual numbers are due to random variation and not special cause variation.
Knife crime and associated homicide is shocking and awful but we clearly need to understand if the current increase is just the natural expected fluctuation in the numbers or there has been a significant change. On the basis of the last 20 years of data it appears to be down to random variation. Still vital to try and reduce numbers and should be done based on good interpretation of the evidence. Can already see the politics and ideology creeping in sadly.
Knife crime and associated homicide is shocking and awful but we clearly need to understand if the current increase is just the natural expected fluctuation in the numbers or there has been a significant change. On the basis of the last 20 years of data it appears to be down to random variation.
Is that because the death by sharp object data will also include a lot of domestic violence (apparently a kitchen knife is the passion/heated moment weapon of choice due to it being on hand) a split between the 2 is needed for better analysis.
Govt don’t make the distinction and would be good to see the separate data as you suggest. Big advocate of basing policy on evidence here.
Found knife crime data for London. On SPC chart still within random variation up to 2018.
the solution to this doesn’t lie in more police, it lies in giving some hope to young people who feel (rightly IMHO) that they’ve been abandoned, and have little, if anything, to lose
I'd agree in principle, but I don't believe our youth north of the border feel any more hopeful about their future, but look at the difference in stats. One knife murder below age of 14 last year, four between 14 and 16.
Still 5 too many tbh, but quite a disparity compared to south of the border.