MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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My middle child started school in September - he's now 5. He had a bad start with needing medical treatment in his first week with a another kid scratching his face so badly he needed the doctor to look at his eye; this was followed up by older kids teaching the new intake lots of swearwords.
This involved much contact with the Head, who now seems to have taken against him. This morning I saw her 'discipline' him by grabbing his lapels and shouting in his face. She didn't know I was there until I asked what she was doing.
He was playing 'tig' with other kids and running about. She says he hit another boy; which I didn't see but in context it's more likely to be horseplay than anything that requires physical contact.
My oldest son has gone to the same school for 4 years. We have been called in a few times for behaviour issues and each time we have found serious gaps in the tale.
An example is 'he hit another boy in the groin'. When looked into it seems this boy had him in a headlock and he lashed out. I maintain this was an issue for the yard staff and if someone had me in a headlock I would lash out too. These incidents were so upsetting for my wife and the lad that we looked at other schools in the area. The head found out about this and dragged my wife in for a bollocking as 'it made her (the Head) look bad' to other schools.
So, is grabbing and shouting in a 5 year olds face good teaching practice? Or am I right to go and see the Head and tell her I think it isn't acceptable?
write down what you saw, thats one for the board of governors
and no she cant do that !
Bombers/owning, shoes/wee etc.
You've every right to have a word with the Head, you're entrusting her to look after your kids aswell as educate them.
If she doesn't want to know, go to the council/education board or whatever its called and complain. And have another look at those other schools..
I can honestly say that should I ever see a teacher do that to my kids, I'd do exactly the same thing back. As for the head complaining about being seen in a bad light light, erm yes, well, that's because she's doing badly...
I recall my school days very clearly, and not always in a good light. I recall my mother being called in for me punching a bloke (someone who I'm still friends with 30 years later) square in the plums. I thought it was fair enough, he had just hit me around the head with his red Darth Vader lunchbox!
No no no not ever. Horrendous, I wouldn't be on here I'd be onto the local authority. Yes write everything down. Utterly unforgivable. Yes kids need to be told now and again but thats totally unacceptable.
red Darth Vader lunchbox!
shouldn't Darth Vader lunchboxes be black?
I can't think of any situation where grabbing a five-year-old in the way you describe could be good practice, or even vaguely acceptable.
I certainly would spell out my views calmly, but in no uncertain terms to the headteacher in person.
Then I would get on and enroll both my kids in a different school. Then formally complain about the headteacher in question. I can't imagine her behaviour will improve, so your kids are probably better off out of there.
However, if they were mine, I'd be trying to get the message across that raising a hand to another kid, even when being sorely provoked or even attacked, as yours were, is never going to end well, and just gives ammunition to people who want to label them as troublemakers.
should I ever see a teacher do that to my kids, I'd do exactly the same thing back
The trouble with immediate action is that some folk can be nasty and vindictive and left alone with your kids when you can't see what they do.
Have you spoken to other parents?
Chances are they've had similar issues.
I train recruits in the Army so have to go through a similar background check process to teachers all in the name of safeguarding vulnerable individuals (rightly so in my opinion). Anyway, we are in no uncertain terms not allowed to physically reprimand recruits even in the manner you have described, unless there is immediate danger to the individual.
Bottom line, if I'm not allowed to do it, then that teacher sure as hell isn't allowed to do it!
The head found out about this and dragged my wife in for a bollocking as 'it made her (the Head) look bad' to other schools
At the risk of sounding a bit Daily Mail I detest this behaviour. I was bullied at about that age by a teacher who damaged my back manhandling me during PE. Resorting to getting physical with the kids and and treating the parents the same way they treat kids - it sounds like she really needs sorting out or it's time to find a new career.
Report to governors and council.
The head found out about this and dragged my wife in for a bollocking as 'it made her (the Head) look bad' to other schools.
This would have me spitting feathers, absolutely none of her business if you want to look at other schools. She could offer to discuss any concerns, sure. But no grounds for complaint, its your right.
Re: the behaviour you saw - Even if your kid is a little sod in the playground that would be very bad practice regardless of any history.
As others have said report it not only to govenors but also to ofstead see how she likes an impromtue visit from ostead following a complaint
The head found out about this and dragged my wife in for a bollocking
That's the exact moment I would have hit the roof! Grounds for dismissal imo, head teachers do not have the right to bollock parents!
You will never get it sorted..... just move schools
red Darth Vader lunchbox!
shouldn't Darth Vader lunchboxes be black?
Hmm, an interesting conjecture. I reckon the red was probably implemented as a nod towards the empire's choice of light sabre colours.
OP - It sounds to me like the head has taken a dislike to your family. If I saw someone do that to one of my kids I would take follow up action with the local authority, as others have suggested.
Problem is - if your kids are happy in the school, are you prepared to move them? Your relationship with this head teacher sounds strained now. Would she be professional enough to treat your children impartially after you start a complaint about her? On the info you have given so far I doubt it.
best of luck - hope you get to resolve this distressing situation with minimal impact to kids and school
totally unacceptable OP.
if it was mine I would do three things
1. Remove your children from the school and find another
2. Contact Ofsted, the local Authority, the Governors and the Police and report your concerns to each agency. I guarantee that this won't have been the first time she will have laid hands on. It is totally unacceptable and should lead to a suspension whilst your complaint is investigated. Be prepared to give a statement so think back and get times, dates, what happened exactly and where
3. Control your emotions and DO NOT contact the head. If it were my boys she had assaulted (and that is what it is) I would find it hugely challenging not to descend apon the head in a ball of fire and lava.
And yes, I work in education.
I'm a firm believer that shouting, used sparingly, has it's place in disciplining children, but as said above, unless there is a genuine need to restrain a child then grabbing their lapels is unjustified. Sounds like the head could have lost their rag? I would complain about that.
If you wanna screw with her head a bit start an internet meme where people films themselves grabbing her by the lapels and screaming in her face.
I'd give it a week until she had a full mental breakdown and was no longer able t leave the house. Problem solves. And you saved yourself that whole looking at other schools, uprooting your children from their friends worry.
On a more 'socially acceptable' note, have you spoken to your kid to see if it happens a lot? She sounds, admitedly just from the bits you've recounted, as if she's not fully in control of herself.
"If you wanna screw with her head a bit start an internet meme where people films themselves grabbing her by the lapels and screaming in her face"
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE YOUTH!
+1 Yossarian.
Report it to all and sundry. If that's how she behaves towards the kids under her care she shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them. Also talk to the other parents as there will probably be other cases which could/should be reported.
Funny though that she thinks bollocking the parents is acceptable. I can imagine how that conversation would go if the head at my kids school tried something similar!
I'm gonna get absolutley burned for this, not suggesting what you saw was in any way acceptable behaviour but....
....my other half is a primary school teacher and has to deal with a lot of shit on a daily basis. The amount of times that the parents absolutely disbelieve the school about the behaviour of their little darlings far far outwieghs the times that they take any kind of action or responsibility. Furthermore the school never singles out kids just because they don't like them or their parents.
Like I said, no excusing the behaviour that you have witnessed and I'd be inclined to take it further, but have you really asked yourself whether your kids have behavioural issues? I've never ever been called in for my kids, and they can be right shits at home sometimes.
As otehrs have said - you need to report that to the govenors and Ofsted.
As for her letting rip at your Mrs - again, the Govenors and Ofsted need a detailed written report.
At the very least she should be suspended while the issues are investigated.
If I saw the head teacher of my 5-year old daughters School doing that to my kid, i'd not stop until she was suitably repremanded.
have you really asked yourself whether your kids have behavioural issues?
Hmm, bad teachers always blame the kids; they never think they could be bad teachers.
My middle lad was an angel at nursery; a real soft lump who would just bawl when someone was rotten to him. After a few weeks at big school he learned from the bigger kids that what you do is lash out or fight. As that's what he sees.
The playground discipline is appalling, the older boys are always wrestling/fighting/lumping each other. Except when the Head is around.
Should you tell her this her immediate reaction is "It doesn't happen". Not "I'll look into it" or "I'll speak to other staff/parents" just an autodenial.
Anyways, I'm going in at 3.15 to speak to her. I don't think I'll need to grab her by the lapels to get my point across.
Stay calm and pursue this until you get a satisfactory resolution.
Suck it up, MTFU...
NO seriously though, they can't grab hold of your young un. For starters it's not showing a good example is it?!
If I caught a teacher grabbing a child of mine then i'd have marched the teacher up to the headmasters office there and then, FACT.
Agree with all that has been said regarding this incident apart from Molgrips assertion that head teachers shouldn't be allowed to bollock parents. This head sounds useless and it was out of order in this case but I wish more of them would bollock parents over some issues!! Sounds like a load of the parents need a talking to at at that school if there is routine fighting / bullying etc going on in the playground every day.
Is the school an academy? Would the local authority get involved if so?
If you want real action - report the incident to the police as an assault.
School or local authority will have to act when the teacher is interviewed/charged by the police.
Totally unacceptable - no place for a teacher like that.
p.s - I am a teacher!!
I temp occasionally in various schools & as such have worked for numerous heads in posh private schools to inner city underachieving schools. I once saw a head teacher grab a pupil (he was about 7) by the tie & shout in his face aggresively by the time he was done the tie was a tight knot. I raised the issue with the head who didn't seem to bothered I wanted to grab the dude by his tie and shout him down but instead mentioned it to another teacher and set a complaint up with the governors. It wasn't the first time and other staff seemed timid of the head, he was sacked shortly after.
For the head and the children's sake you need to raise this issue and personally I wouldn't be found giving a shit if it looks bad on the head if you move your children.
Doesn't sound like a good environment for any of your kids. Keep calm when you go in.
I wish more of them would bollock parents over some issues!!
I take your point, but bollocking isn't a good idea.
one of our history teachers/rugby coaches punched a kid to the ground once in front of the whole year during rugby class. We were all sat in house lines and he was chatting away (as were most of the year) and the teacher called him up to the front and punched him hard in the chest. He had quite a short fuse.
Taking this right down to the basics - even if your kid had hit the teacher in the face the teacher should *not* be grabbing the child like that. If she can’t control her anger then she shouldn’t be in the job. Disgraceful.
If you want to really make things bad call the Local Authority Education Department and say there is a child protection issue at the school and that you have seen the head physically assault your child.
It's kind of armeggedon in the 'raising the stakes' game but I'd be very tempted if I saw it happen to my child.
So what happened op? Did you report? Did you meet?
IMHO ask the head what her reaction would be to being grabbed by the lapel and shouted at, chances are she would say police or similar, ask her if this should be your course of action as age of the victim shouldn't matter
Comedy gold from Mrs Toast there by the way 🙂
The head found out about this and dragged my wife in for a bollocking as 'it made her (the Head) look bad' to other schools.
Tell your son to tell the police she touched him in a bad place.
Problem solved.
I can't think of any situation where grabbing a five-year-old in the way you describe could be good practice, or even vaguely acceptable.
It's actually assault if it was not for unavoidable restraining purposes.
Haven't read it all but I'd be taking the head to one side and have a quiet threatening word with him/ her.I have 5 kids, 1 left school and working, one at college - Aboriculture, three, 15, 13 & 11 still at school. I've heard alot from teachers over the years about various incidents and asked my children for their part in the tale..somewhere down the middle is the truth. I've always told my kids that they are allowed to defend themselves ( and if they get punished for it I'll be at the school ) but never bully and they never have! It so often transpires that there is a bully or a bit of over-enthusiastic playing where the ' bully ' is having a great time ' playing ' until someone lashes out back at them when they've had enough of being on the receiving end as in your childs case OP. The ' bully ' then runs and grasses to the teachers that so and so has hit them.
Report the head. Did anyone else see this? ( your word against the heads ). You have to report it maybe other parents have done the same. No child should be made to endure any sort of physical or psychological abuse of any kind.
write to the chair of governors saying how much your first child enjoys the school etc etc (positive BS) but that you have concerns about playground behaviour/supervision now that your younger child has started at the school (quote the injury/swearing ) and would like to meet with him/her together with the headteacher so that you can better understand their policies and see what you can do at home to reinforce good behaviour and help your 2nd child be happy at the school.
If you want mention the lapel incident - maybe suggest it was a little unusual but that you are concerned that your child could provoke that type of behaviour - then volunteer to be a parent governor
I am a Principal Teacher, the only way I can ever lay hands on a pupil are to stop them harming(in order) another pupil,themselves,me. If they are laying into a kid on the ground for instance,I have to "place myself between them" and that is secondary pupils. What I am saying is that no child should put up with that during their primary socialisation or they will think that is the correct way to settle confrontation. DO not have any more informal meetings with the head. Go to whoever is in charge of the school (I am in Scotland,so different up here) Children should be safe in school,primary is a time to learn from mistakes NOT be afraid of consequences from an aggressive bully.
I agree with Duckman. Go beyond the head.
I know this sounds harsh, bit are you sure your kids are the little angels you are hoping they are? How many other parents have had similar issues?
I know a 4 yr old (nice middle class family etc) who is a real nasty piece of work.
Teachers behaving like that is not acceptable, but your kids can't be completely innocent in this.
Funkydunc... doesnt matter if the kid is an angel or not its the behaviour of the head teacher grabbing the child in the playground the OP has a beef with !
We moved my son recently from the local (on our doorstep) school to one two miles away.
It took a lot of umm'ing and arr'ing but it's the best thing we've ever done.
He's happy, we're happy and that's all that counts.
Tim
I saw the Head on Friday after school. She simply denied it.
I made it clear that I knew what she had done and I wouldn't accept that sort of behaviour. At all. How can she critise a child for physical contact when she goes hands on at the first opportunity. I may have also called her a dinosaur who needed immediate retirement. I fear I may have marked my kids card even further.
However, while chatting to another parent while waiting for kids, they mentioned that she had dragged a classmate of my lad (so 5 years old again) out of assembly by his uniform for talking. So it looks like she is out of control.
Governors it is. Funnily enough, the chair of governors lives about 3 doors down from me. Time to escalate.
Any update on this?
i work in a pupils referral unit, if i did that to a secondary aged pupil i would be on gardening leave straight away, and i get serious verbal abuse most days of the week. I have a 6 year old, if i saw that happen there would be at least a request to meet witht he chair of the governers and a LA represenative to explain what i saw to them. Completely unnaceptable behaviour
If I was you I would drag the wife and kids into the headmistress's office and then very systematically beat her to a pulp..
When finished, walk out of the school, change your name and take your family to live in a caravan at a desolate and neglected caravan site near Rhyll.. get a job in a local cafe, working for a boss who hates his job and hates you.. start drinking heavily to numb the pain of your existence..
job done
On a more light hearted note,the "RED Darth Vader Lunchbox" does exist.
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