[Closed] justice: FAIL

"It may be that some members of the public, or media commentators, will assert that the man Salem deserved what happened to him ... and that you should not have been prosecuted and need not be punished,” he said.

"However, if persons were permitted to take the law into their own hands and inflict their own instant and violent punishment on an apprehended offender rather than letting justice take its course, then the rule of law and [b]our system of criminal justice[/b], which are the hallmarks of a civilised society, would collapse."

My bold. Now I suspect the defendant did not know the victims[?!] previous records but having now heard it is 50+ convictions I would say our system of criminal justice is on life support and if something is not done to either to re-educate repeat offenders or keep them off the streets we will see more of this type of thing.

Likewise we are not permitted to own firearms for self-defence any more (the law changed in England & Wales in the 1920's) as we should be able to rely upon the police to defend us and our property from violent criminals and the government & judicial system should ensure the police are adequately supported & equipped to do so.

The way I see it the English system has failed on two counts prior to the home-owner beating the living daylights out of this guy;

1) Getting the robber to mend his ways earlier in his criminal career or to keep him locked up.
2) To permit a law abiding citizen from being equipped to defend his family & home from the threat of violent attack or to ensure that the police are on the scene within moments of the such an act taking place.

The second potentially opens a can of worms, where does it stop? If you accept that the police cannot be on scene in minutes (which realistically they cannot) what is the next step? What would have happened if the previously law abiding home-owner was permitted (as in Texas) to carry a firearm and trained to use it?

Chewkw said, "That's what a father should do and the right thing too - Protecting his family first. Whatever comes later is irrelevant. "

Funny. Because he protected his family first, and that was irrelevant to the court case. He was tried ONLY on what came leter, so that was ALL that was relevant.

Both parties should have been jailed.But I have some sympathy for the point about the guy is only a danger to anybody who breaks into his house.Still the description of the kidnapper will now contain the words "limp" and "large dent on head" in any future incidents, making him easier to catch.

On another note I see that 'The Fox' has been released less than 20 years into his 146 year sentance.
Which has gone down well here where he raped men and women at gunpoint.

It wouldn't be such a pisstake if the gang members had recieved a bigger sentence than the Hussains. If my family was threatened at knife point and I had the chance, I'd go a bit bananas as well I think.

BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

A few years back Duncan Ferguson, former Dundee United and Rangers (playing for Everton at the time IIRC) footballer...Drunken Duncan as he was known hereabouts...

Superb!

We always referred to him as 'Duncan Disorderly'.

😀 😀

heh heh - I was looking for photos of the headbutt at Ibrox incident, after all if you're going to assualt someone, why not do it in front of a crowd of 50,000, the cops and the press who all have their cmeras trained on you..
Instead I found this
[img] [/img]

Bat-man should've got a suspended sentence. Very extreme circumstances made him do what he did. Unlikely to be a threat to wider society. He's been made an example of.

Benji wrote,

"It wouldn't be such a pisstake if the gang members had recieved a bigger sentence than the Hussains"

Well, seeing as only one was actually caught, and he'd been rendered unable to stand trial by their actions, what exactly did you expect?

I don't understand
The police can fill an innocent Brazilian full of lead-sorry sunshine wrong place wrong time and all that.
Bloke get 3 yrs for a bit of a kicking on a career criminal.

Wear a police uniform..........and it'll get swept under that big carpet at the crown prosecution service 👿

Bloke get 3 yrs for a bit of a kicking

Wasn't really just 'a bit of a kicking' though was it.

I'm from Hull, it was a bit of a kicking he's still alive. Stabbing are now all the rage now.

myheadsashed; bet that annoyed them,

oh you are taking a bat to me, that is SO last year

LOL! The intruders entered house, tied up the family members, who knows what they were going to do to their victims next etc, but then they got it wrong, chased and whacked in the head.

Then we have those who feel the action of defending one's own family is also a state concern and theirs by saying no no ... you cannot do that because that is over used of force blah blah blah as we are civilised society and there is justice, law etc ... to protect us. If we injure culprit(s) we have to pay for their entire life. Also if everyone takes laws into their own hands the world would go mad, eye for an eye etc and we will see chaos and my ego would be shattered.

WTF! Rationality gone bonkers!

Northwind - Member

Chewkw said, "That's what a father should do and the right thing too - Protecting his family first. Whatever comes later is irrelevant. "

Funny. Because he protected his family first, and that was irrelevant to the court case. He was tried ONLY on what came leter, so that was ALL that was relevant.

"Whatever comes later is irrelevant" to oneself once own family is safe. Being found guilty and later sentenced to jail is irrelevant if one knows own family is safe. A self sacrifice for the family.

defending one's own family

So if someone kicked your son/brothers head in with an iron bar, broke a cricket bat over his head and left him with permanent brain does that family not get to be all vigilante?

"hen we have those who feel the action of defending one's own family is also a state concern"

You're obviously not too aware of the facts here, he didn't do these things while defending his family.

Junkyard - Member

defending one's own family

So if someone kicked your son/brothers head in with an iron bar, broke a cricket bat over his head and left him with permanent brain does that family not get to be all vigilante?

If my brother/son etc got permanent brain damage from being wacked for his criminal act like entering and then threaten others in their own home by whatever means, then serve him right for his deeds. I will not blame the other family as they are protecting themselves. If he got away and I found out then he would have to face me unless he never come home again which is fine with me.

Northwind - Member

"hen we have those who feel the action of defending one's own family is also a state concern"

You're obviously not too aware of the facts here, he didn't do these things while defending his family.

But they entered his house and his family members were in the process of being tied. They have crossed his path and him whacking one of them is to ensure they never return. Running away after threatening other's family and then crying foul ... oh ya baby ... Whack!

So you're admitting it's not self defence but retaliation. Good stuff.

Northwind

So you're admitting it's not self defence but retaliation. Good stuff.

LOL! You are getting too rational now. Yes, he is defending his family by whacking the culprit silly. Low quality bat by the way.

Yeah ... run then cried foul after threatening family ... ya baby, Whack!

FFS! Just don't go around threatening and robbing families if you do not want to get whack in the head. 😆

Whack him while defending your family and so long as you don't intend to kill fair enough. In this case chasing him away then beating him to permanent severe injury? The family were in no danger when the beating occurred. Thats why he goes to jail. Harsh sentence for being a bolshy asian as well I bet. 6 months might have been more sense.

Chewkw wrote, "Yes, he is defending his family by whacking the culprit silly"

What a total load of balls. His family were safe, simple as that, he was no longer protecting them.

Whacking him yes but never killing.

However, in this case I think beating the culprit was the intention but without knowing they would cause severe damage to him.

The family was in no danger after the culprit ran but his family has already been violated which in certain culture is not good especially if the head of the family cannot do anything.

Although being sentenced to jail is harsh he can hold his head high. Now he has the respect of the community.

I think he will be out in half that.

but without knowing they would cause severe damage to the him.

I'm not so sure the family was safe. The crim was a serial offender. There's every chance he would have had another go later, but with more deadly force.

Junkyard - Member

but without knowing they would cause severe damage to the him.

so you can hit someone so hard with a cricket bat it breaks in three and then hit them some more with a metal bar and NOT relaise that his may do severe damage to them.

Well, I guess so in this case. Bear in mind this is a highly emotional charged situation and I bet he would even shoot the culprit if he got a gun. Then think later.

Yeah right ... let's see and rationalise ... oh look the culprit has ran away ... what do we do now? ... hmmmm ... let's have a meeting before we proceed. Majority vote please. Please sign form and submit with all stamps in place please. 😆

Ya baby ... cry foul ... Whack!

Unless you are a martial art expert then you can pick and choose how to deal with the situation rationally. You can break his arm, leg or etc and not to the point of brain damage. For some ... just simple senseless whack will do.

At what point would you feel that your family were safe?

Personally I wouldn't feel safe until I saw them dragged away in handcuffs or...

18 months suspended sentence would have been justice IMO. The threat of a fairly heavy sentence should he reoffend, which is highly unlikely unless he is robbed at knifepoint again.

I can't help feeling if this guy had not been tying people up,having entered their house with a knife, then nobody would have chased him down the road and applied a metal bar to his head.The hiding he took was a direct consequence of his own actions.Never mind criminal injuries will look after him....Actually they won't, as they take into account how much of any claim was your fault and deduct accordingly, it will be interesting to see how much of his brain damage they put at his own door.

Duncan Ferguson story. While he was in Dundee he was banned from the pub and club chain I did the doors for, as he kept starting fights and then getting his head kicked in by somebody half his size.He also had loads of previous when he was dubbed up, including attacking a guy on crutches.Used to pee myself laughing when I saw him portrayed as hard.

For some ... just simple senseless whack will do.

Coorect I am sure he would have got away with just one as reasonable however when he was hitting a bleeding lifeless lump on the groung with a bar and his brother.....this in way to much.

I can't help feeling if this guy had not been tying people up,having entered their house with a knife, then nobody would have chased him down the road and applied a metal bar to his head

Has anyone said differently? Has anyone held him up as a model citizen? However it is still not reasonable force to beat him till he has brain damage.

Nope, junkyard the beating was not reasonable force,however,I have no sympathy for the state the thief and surely the reasons behind him getting beaten should have impacted on the Judges sentencing?

However it is still not reasonable force to beat him till he has brain damage.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8423043.stm ]Tories pledge householder rights[/url]

quality case of playing politics...but...

Mr Grayling said he wanted to see whether "grossly disproportionate" force would be the right measure, instead.

...now we're f****** talking! 😉
Im going to "grossly disproportionate" on your ass!

[img] [/img]

For after the event.

Sentence changed to 2 years suspended on [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8469850.stm ]appeal[/url].

Justice appears to have been done after all.

Knighthood to follow hopefully.