[Closed] Jo Swinson

who ?

Does she ride a bike?

Jo Swinson MP, new leader of the Lib Dems

I think the only "problem" with Ed Davey was that he was (arguably) slightly more associated with the tuition fees and jo swinson moves them on a little from those objections. I'd be inclined to agree that he is possibly a little more statesman-like.

I do think their whole leadership selection process stood out in stark contrast to the other fiasco, but was under-reported to the extent that people are asking questions like "who's Jo Swinson..."

Possibly to have the shortest ever term as leader of the Libdems as there's a good chance she will lose her seat at the next GE (which could be very soon).

Hypocrit, cruel, liar. A Tory in a yellow dress.

Wot scotroutes said

Add carpetbagger to the list as well

there’s a good chance she will lose her seat at the next GE

It's changed hands but a 5000 majority seems pretty good to me. Not safe, but not hyper-marginal.

I didn't realise she was the one who beat John Nicolson.

...and I was wrong, she has been in government.

So Lib Dems aren't happy with their leader now - does this make Farage the only leader of a domestic party who's party supporters actually like! 🙂

At this rate we'll have hung parliaments for the next two decades and **** all will get done.

Can't stand her, hope she fails miserably and to hell with anyone who votes for her.

...and Ed Davey's seat is even more marginal.

Can’t stand her, hope she fails miserably and to hell with anyone who votes for her.

Why? She seems fairly inoffensive.

Wot scotroutes said

+1

Never trust a Tory, nor their enablers.

Completely unapologetic for her role in the coalition. On record as saying " no deal with Corbyn" Wanted a statue of Thatcher.

Her seat is vulnerable to an SNP surge which I think highly likely at the next GE. SNP held it at a previous election

I like her and am glad she won.

Why? She seems fairly inoffensive.

Have a look at her voting record.

Completely unapologetic for her role in the coalition. On record as saying ” no deal with Corbyn” Wanted a statue of Thatcher.

- Being in government involves doing unpopular stuff.

- No party will ever do a substantial deal with Corbyn for all the obvious reasons

- The first female prime minister is worth a statue. If not the first which one? The second? Or just the first female prime minister with similar politics to yours?

Her seat is vulnerable to an SNP surge which I think highly likely at the next GE.

Because one thing that Brexit has taught us is leaving complex political and economic alliances works out fine. 🙂

Have a look at her voting record.

How about you give me an example from her voting record.

OOB - your opinion and mine on the merits of scots independence does not matter. Her seat is vulnerable to the snp

OOB – your opinion and mine on the merits of scots independence does not matter. Her seat is vulnerable to the snp

Historically it has been. My opinion is relevant because I'm arguing that the example of Brexit *should* be a massive brake on the SNP. Even the SNP think Brexit is a bad idea and Scexit will be more complicated and more damaging for all the same reasons and more. So I'm predicting the SNP are in retreat which makes JS seat less marginal.

I could be wrong of course, I often am.

How about you give me an example from her voting record.

How about you do your own research?

It's fairly easy. You just type "Jo Swinson Voting Record" into Google.

Her seat is vulnerable to the snp

I wonder how much this kind of thing is affected by leadership - IMO her increased visibility on TV and radio etc will, if anything, help with voters and make her seat more secure...

– The first female prime minister is worth a statue. If not the first which one? The second? Or just the first female prime minister with similar politics to yours?

+1

Like her or loath her, she was a pretty significant figure in British Politics...

Why? She seems fairly inoffensive.

Her stance over 2nd Indy ref, her propping up Tory coalition and from meeting her several times she was stuck up and thought she was better than everybody.

The first female prime minister is worth a statue.

Our town got a statue .

It's all that's left.

She destroyed everything else.

TJ is just afraid the LD’s will take votes away from Corbyn....& so he should be.

Lab have been an abysmal opposition - their paucity only comes second to the current crop of Tories - quite literally!

Ignore his bitter sniping.

She's a cock of a woman.

sootyandjim

Member
How about you give me an example from her voting record.

How about you do your own research?

It’s fairly easy. You just type “Jo Swinson Voting Record” into Google.

I recognize that the "you guess why I don't like this person and try and argue it down" method has its merits for promoting lively debate, but it's pretty annoying when you actually want to know what is driving somebody's opinion of someone or something.

Loving the "yellow tory" and "tory enabler" pish from the (possible) supporters of the scottish party that brought you this:
Labour frozen out as SNP buries hatchet with Conservatives to end 20-year taboo

Short memories all around.
In a future world where the voting percentages could create hung parliaments and coalitions a plenty; where would we ever find a politician pure enough to wave a saltire again :.)

Woohoo, eat the breids SNP alert has awoken him! 😂🤣

but it’s pretty annoying when you actually want to know what is driving somebody’s opinion of someone or something.

Its hard to believe that someone interested in the libdems wont know that her voting record was extremely pro austerity and as a minister oversaw some changes which made it considerably harder for workers to go to tribunal.
As such it is extremely easy to guess why someone would object to her based on her voting record.

Her stance over 2nd Indy ref, her propping up Tory coalition and from meeting her several times she was stuck up and thought she was better than everybody.

Thanks, that's clear.

I wonder how much this kind of thing is affected by leadership – IMO her increased visibility on TV and radio etc will, if anything, help with voters and make her seat more secure…

Good thought. I've learned the hard way that having an MP who isn't in the governing party is largely pointless, you need an insider arguing your case. Outsiers will write letters but they have zero influence. Same with local govt cabinets. I suspect your MP being a Party leader has a similar 'finger on the pulse, influence and the right contacts' benefit. That probably adds a few vote to JS next time.

I recognize that the “you guess why I don’t like this person and try and argue it down” method has its merits for promoting lively debate, but it’s pretty annoying when you actually want to know what is driving somebody’s opinion of someone or something.

This. Put it better than I could.

nobeer
I'll take that as a compliment from the man whose contribution to the thread so far is:

She’s a cock of a woman.

FYI Its less of an "SNP alert" and more of a "hypocrite klaxon".

You can tell labour are worried by the amount of stick they are giving her, her voting record looks a touch tory on a quick skim over it, but she is leader of the libdems so I doubt members would allow her to go full tory, but she & her party are fully supportive of staying in the EU so they'll get my more than likely wasted vote at the next GE

You can tell labour are worried by the amount of stick they are giving her, her voting record looks a touch tory on a quick skim over it, but she is leader of the libdems so I doubt members would allow her to go full tory, but she & her party are fully supportive of staying in the EU so they’ll get my more than likely wasted vote at the next GE

In her defence every single party fought the 2010 election on a 'reduce the deficit' ticket. It's a bit harsh to have a pop at her because a few years later we're all a bit bored with paying the money we borrowed back.

I like her. She will do well against Johnson and Corbyn. She will be the only one talking sense with a clear message. I don’t buy the tuition fees and austerity argument. Guess I’m a Tory in a yellow dress then.

“hypocrite klaxon”

What you mean like staunchly advocating for a 2nd referendum on Brexit while staunchly denouncing a a 2nd Referendum on Scottish Independence.

In her defence every single party fought the 2010 election on a ‘reduce the deficit’ ticket. It’s a bit harsh to have a pop at her because a few years later we’re all a bit bored with paying the money we borrowed back

Indeed. You have to take the context into account, coalition means compromises and that record would have been very different if the Lib Dems had been a majority government rather than a minority in a coalition.

Lol @ eat the breid, that's awesome, can we keep you? 😋🤣

Amount of mud being slung from the hard-left parts of Labour tells she's probably the perfect Women for the job.

You have to take the context into account, coalition means compromises and that record would have been very different if the Lib Dems had been a majority government

You would need to provide some evidence for that claim. Given the ideological bias of the orange book libdems its hard to see that there would be much deviation. Aside from possibly getting PR in place but since they would have got a majority that would be dubious.
Remember she states there is plenty of stuff she was happy with from the coalition. For the stuff she admits was incorrect I dont believe she didnt think they were right at the time.

You have to take the context into account, coalition means compromises and that record would have been very different if the Lib Dems had been a majority government

+1

Especially a minority party in a coalition.

richmtb
From my point of view its not about being for or against second referenda.
I just prefer it when important questions are decided using facts and experts rather than hand & flagwaving. Thats not hypocrisy where these two subjects are concerned.

nobeer
still engaging with the facts people in the traditional way I see?

Her voting record is poor. Brexit does seem to have pushed her left rather than right, so I will be interested in where she goes when she gets tested and challenged.

she & her party are fully supportive of staying in the EU so they’ll get my more than likely wasted vote at the next GE

+1 That's the most important thing right now.

nobeer
still engaging with the facts people in the traditional way I see?

Yup, you know me mate! Sorry for the delay though, I was posting on a bike thread. You should try it! 🤣

oops .. double post

bike

a vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.

Interesting concept.

How did it vote?

Seems to me like a very classic lib dem approach- paint a vague picture of a sunny happy liberal future, fight everything entirely on brexit, please ignore the fact that our new leader was pro austerity and especially in favour of the harshest elements of austerity- pro bedroom tax, against raising benefits in line with the cost of living, voted to push support for the disabled onto underfunded councils without providing any additional funding, backed the public sector pay cap, wanted to increase VAT but cut corporation tax and opposed an increase in top level income tax, voted to restrict legal aid, opposed the increase of the minimum wage and was a cheerleader for zero hours contracts, supported the part-privatisation of the NHS, supported academisation of schools and the increase of university tuition fees (1) while voting to remove financial support for young people in training and college, flipflopped on climate change (publically makes the right noises but votes for fracking and cutting renewables funding), voted to sell the nationally owned forests and the post office...

(1) however you feel about promises etc, the rise of tuition fees to £9000 was financially disastrous- it literally costs the taxpayer money, because the repayment rate is so low that we will actually recoup less of the amount loaned than we did under the old regime. It was literally just a way of hiding a huge chunk of the national debt for a couple of decades by inflicting it on teenagers instead.

But yeah, brexit. Luckily her record and the general direction of the party doesn't really matter because nobody's going to be talking about anything else in the next general election

I bet 10 scottish pence she loses her seat in the next election though, just like she did in 2015, which is going to be hilarious.

Dickyboy

Subscriber

she is leader of the libdems so I doubt members would allow her to go full tory,

Based on the evidence of the one other time it happened?

wanted to increase VAT but cut corporation tax and opposed an increase in top level income tax, voted to restrict legal aid,

Seems sensible to me. Keep in the revenue sweet spot on the laffer curve. VAT is tricky to avoid and it's essential to have competitive tax rates to keep revenues up.

and was a cheerleader for zero hours contracts,

If zero hours contracts should be banned, what should the new minimum limit be? 1 hour PCM? 4 hours PCM? 8 hours PCM? Would you ban all part time work and have a 38hr minimum contract?

No, zero hours contracts have their place (I manage a team of 200 students on zero hours contracts, it's the only way it could possibly work). But Swinson has declared their 300% rise in the last 5 years as a great thing for workers and a success for the british economy. Talking about "banning" is just a silly straw man when we're talking about someone that champions them.

Also, isn't it strange that the only people that ever mention the laffer curve, are always claiming that any increase would take it to the point of diminishing returns? What are the odds of that, that we're right now at the "sweet spot"? And why is it that the UK's "sweet spot" is so low, and falling? When the cut to 17% goes ahead we'll have the 5th lowest corporation tax rate in the OECD and the second lowest combined corporation tax, compared to the average of 22% never mind the european average of 25%. We were already the lowest in the G7, but now we'll be the lowererest which is obviously even better.

If we really were at or near the laffer point, then Osborne (and Swinson's) cut to 17% wouldn't be costing us £6bn per year. But apparently we need to do that to stay on par with our nearest competitor, Slovenia.

So here's a thought. How amusing would it be if in the next GE all the party leaders lost their seats?

No, zero hours contracts have their place (I manage a team of 200 students on zero hours contracts, it’s the only way it could possibly work). But Swinson has declared their 300% rise in the last 5 years as a great thing for workers and a success for the british economy. Talking about “banning” is just a silly straw man when we’re talking about someone that champions them.

So she's in favour of something essential that you're in favour of. Just a fraction more favour of it than you!

Also, isn’t it strange that the only people that ever mention the laffer curve, are always claiming that any increase would take it to the point of diminishing returns? What are the odds of that, that we’re right now at the “sweet spot”?

I *presume* the odds are very high that we're in the "sweet spot" as far as the Civil Servants who work this stuff out can tell. Especially with regard to corporation tax. Companies can't vote so literally the only reason to tax companies anything less than 100pc is that it wouldn't work.

And why is it that the UK’s “sweet spot” is so low, and falling?

Loads of reasons. You can move a company HQ abroad *very* easily these days. Even medium sized firms find it's worth while. You can move your own role abroad to benefit from better personal tax regime and still keep in contact with Family with Whatsapp and Easy jet. People can google ways to avoid tax now. It's a hard time to gather taxes.

Governments have to be pretty devious to raise tax these days. Gordon Brown's change to dividend taxation in 1997 wasn't done for a laugh, it was done because raising tax is getting harder and harder. (...and I suspect that's not raised as much in the long term as people decide pensions aren't as good value as they used to be.)

So here’s a thought. How amusing would it be if in the next GE all the party leaders lost their seats?

Amusing? It'd be nothing short of miraculous considering at least one of them isn't currently an MP.

So here’s a thought. How amusing would it be if in the next GE all the party leaders lost their seats?

Be funny, but Corbyn's safe:

33,215 (60.5%)

Deftly ignored most of my post there outofbreath, well done. But if you genuinely believe that the UK can only be competitive on a world scale by undercutting essentially every other developed economy, that's pretty sad. And as we were already one of the lowest taxed developed countries, presumably if that works like you claim, we'll have already seen an avalanche of businesses relocating here from Germany, France, Canada, the USA... Right?

Anyone watching Sky News today would have seen Jo Swinson animatedly saying that Boris Johnson should be judged on his record. I completely agree.

scotroutes

Hypocrit, cruel, liar. A Tory in a yellow dress.

Definitely a Yellow Tory. Apparently she's voted with the Tory whip more times than Michael Gove.

And a proven avoider of honouring election promises...

Did you hear her on R4 Todays programme?
Almost a shouting match.
She needs to calm down, and get her point across without raising her voice and talking over the presenter.

But if you genuinely believe that the UK can only be competitive on a world scale by undercutting essentially every other developed economy, that’s pretty sad.

It’s more than sad, it’s awful… but if we’re to try and maintain standards and pay for workers, while increasing costs for business by repeatedly devaluing the pound, and seeking to exclude ourselves from all the agreements business use to trade and coordinate with suppliers, partners and customers… something has to be used, and this shitty blunt ineffective tool… together with getting generous with the handouts for businesses that shouldn’t really need them… is probably going to bed in to stay for a long time now. It is the wrong tool… but… the right ones are being melted down for scrap, so what are you going to use?

Now is Jo a yellow “Tory”, maybe… but being seen as that by some might be what is required now… the LibDems need to mop of some of the disillusioned one nation Tories, as it dawns on them what the party they used to vote for and support has become. They can’t rely on internationalist social democrats and left leaning liberals alone if they want to ever stop being the fourth party in Parliament (maybe fifth if the Brexit Party don’t burn out).

Did you hear her on R4 Todays programme?
Almost a shouting match.
She needs to calm down, and get her point across without raising her voice and talking over the presenter.

I missed it but I've just had a listen, thanks for the heads up.

I take your point and I see exactly what you mean but it didn't seem too bad to me. In fact I thought she performed better than she has on the various interviews I've heard. In those she was sounding like Ed Davey side kick at times. The bit she really got exasperated at was the idea of some sort of pact with Labour to combat Brexit. Given Corbyn's been campaigning to leave the EU since 1983 and before I think she was quite right to thoroughly stamp on that idea.

What I *really* liked was her strong defence of her record whilst acknowledging she didn't get it all right. I find myself shouting at the radio when Labour talk down their record in Govt. FFS, "We were **** last time." isn't a vote winner.

Weird how she's getting stick for being a "Yellow Tory" [1] when Vince Cable was a far bigger figure in the coalition than either Davey or Swinson and got precisely zero criticism on that count as Leader.

[1] A position which, as Kelvin says, could be a vote winner.

Now is Jo a yellow “Tory”, maybe… but being seen as that by some might be what is required now… the LibDems need to mop of some of the disillusioned one nation Tories, as it dawns on them what the party they used to vote for and support has become.

Yep, I was out for a ride and thinking much the same. Question is; if they target the disillusioned Tories, will they be able to hang on to the disillusioned Labour voters too?

TBH the only government that will ever get elected for Westminster is a Blue Tory, Yellow Tory or Red Tory (a la Blair).

Question is; if they target the disillusioned Tories, will they be able to hang on to the disillusioned Labour voters too?

The Liberals have been performing that trick for 90 years or so so I'd say yes.

does this make Farage the only leader of a domestic party who’s party supporters actually like tolerate

I may be the only person on STW that actually voted for her then. Don't agree with a lot of her ideas but the seat is a LibDem SNP marginal. Along with many others I saw her as the best chance of one less SNP MP

But that's first past the post Do you vote for the party you want in govt and arguably waste a vote or tactically to use a vote to keep someone out?

But that’s first past the post Do you vote for the party you want in govt and arguably waste a vote or tactically to use a vote to keep someone out?

Then there's local issues. I'd vote for one Parliamentary candidate who is superb on a critically important local issue, but another on national issues. You can't square that circle. Fortunately I don't live in a marginal so it doesn't actually matter.

And I see she wants a second referendum but says she won't accept the result if it is leave again. Liberal but not democratic.

https://order-order.com/2019/07/23/jo-swinson-wont-accept-result-second-referendum/

Wow.. A Guido link...

May I remind you that farridge said the same thing just before the referendum results? 'unfinished business' if leave lost?

The lib dem policy is very clear.. They want to remain in the EU and will act accordingly.

If you want to leave they are probably not the party for you.

Good. She should do her job. MPs aren’t there to rubber stamp policies they believe are against the interests of the people they represent.

Also parliament is sovereign, not the executive... let us not forget we live in a representative democracy, something the gammons can't seem to understand.
Don't like her or the Liberal Democrats? Don't vote for them then.

The lib dem policy is very clear

It is...

We would campaign for an EU-wide ban on fracking because of its negative impacts on climate change, the energy mix and the local environment.

hmmm...

Jo Swinson generally voted against greater regulation of hydraulic fracturing (fracking) to extract shale gas

And I see she wants a second referendum but says she won’t accept the result if it is leave again. Liberal but not democratic.

Because this is a democracy, if a vote goes against you, you can immediately start campaigning to have it overturned. It doesn't mean that when you lose a vote you have to abandon all your principles.

Because this is a democracy, if a vote goes against you, you can immediately start campaigning to have it overturned. It doesn’t mean that when you lose a vote you have to abandon all your principles.

Unfortunately, not a view shared by Jo Swinson who believes that a referendum held in 2014 is permanently binding. Maybe democracy only started in 2016.

Instead of slagging someone off for their political leanings, go educate yourselves and try making an informed decision on whether you agree/disagree with those political beliefs.

Theres plenty to read, and understand, science and rockets it really isn’t.

Or..

Just stay uninformed and stuck in your ways.

Nows the time to cast away “traditional” views, because they simply do not exist anymore.

🕺

I personally don't particularly like her, her demeanour and way of speaking, some of her voting history.

But it seems some people are confusing MPs voting records with thier party policy. Whilst in a minority coalition, I might add...

The biggest issue the UK faces right now is to stop the self destructive act of leaving the EU. The mess can be mopped up afterwards.. It's not like we've had a functional government for the last three year's anyway.

If zero hours contracts should be banned, what should the new minimum limit be? 1 hour PCM? 4 hours PCM? 8 hours PCM? Would you ban all part time work and have a 38hr minimum contract?

There doesn't have to be a national legal minimum just a number of specified hours in the contract, leaving the employee free to arrange other contract with extra hours for other employers. Or are managers incompetent/lazy and can not/will not work out how many hours a particular job should take?

There doesn’t have to be a national legal minimum just a number of specified hours in the contract, leaving the employee free to arrange other contract with extra hours for other employers. Or are managers incompetent/lazy and can not/will not work out how many hours a particular job should take?

Exactly.. People should be able to take flexible jobs with flexible hours in a fair society.

The problem arises when unscrupulous employers expect people to work on demand with no guarantees.. So you have to be available for work, but you might only get 5 hours a week, or be expected to work 50 hours a week.

That's wrong, it's basically slavery given that you can't claim benefits if you have a 'job'.

It's utterly evil.

The reality is .no matter which party is in power or who the leader of that party is ,hardly anything changes for the better .
Quite frankly I'm absolutely sick to death of hearing the same bs spouted time after time .
The entire way the country is run needs to change not the people running it .

There doesn’t have to be a national legal minimum just a number of specified hours in the contract

A number of specified hours, but not zero. So 15 minute PCM contracts should be legal but not 0 PCM?

leaving the employee free to arrange other contract with extra hours for other employers.

That's a completely different issue. You want employment contracts to not be exclusive. I think that's already the case. Employment contracts with exclusivity usually relate to working for a competitor or similar company. Either way it's nothing to do with the job's minimum hours.

Exactly.. People should be able to take flexible jobs with flexible hours in a fair society.

I really can't see how you can have a job with flexible hours without a contract with a tiny number of working hours and if you're going to allow a tiny number what's wrong with zero?

The Liberals have been performing that trick for 90 years or so so I’d say yes.

And just look at how many MPs they've gained as a result.

Oh.