Jeremy Corbyn

CaptJon - Member

I'm one of those 300,000 new members. I joined because Corbyn in ineffectual and i want.....

Interesting no doubt but only a fool would claim that all 300,000 new members joined for the same reason. The important question is why did the majority join ? No one can be sure of the answer but most suspect that it was probably because they were supportive of Corbyn.

This certainly is the view of the NEC which of course is precisely why they have barred new members from voting in the coming leadership election.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-membership-nec-momentum-blairite-angela-eagle-a7133556.html ]Fury as new members barred from voting in fresh Labour leadership contest by NEC[/url]

Quote :

[i]"Ruling body decides people who have been party members for less than six months cannot vote"[/i]

This is probably illegal btw as the Labour Party website encouraging people to join the party very clearly stated :

[b]“You’ll be eligible to vote in leadership elections, you can help shape party policy, you can attend local meetings and you can even stand as a candidate”[/b]

The fact that they took the drastic step of excluding 20% of party members, probably illegally, shows just how concerned they are of reasons why so many have recently joined the Labour Party.

Launching an antisemitism report whilst thinking aloud 'the thing about Israel, they're just like ISIS really aren't they?'

Only he didn't say that, as has been pointed out countless times. You have to be thick or dishonest, or both, to continue pretending he did.

Mind you I don't know WTF he (Rod Liddle) is doing in the Labour Party.

I had the dubious pleasure to be at school with him. Based on past evidence I'd hazard the guess that "what he's doing" is "being a self-advertising prat".

I'm one of the 300,000 as well. Seeing as one of the first interactions with the party was to retrospectively disenfranchise me (while taking the financially opportunistic step of renting out a vote at £25 a pop), I can't see the relationship being a long-lasting one.

I joined because I want to see effective opposition in the face of an increasingly right wing government. Having said that, it's now clear that no section of the PLP is capable of delivering that.

TBH the NEC may have thought they were damaging Corbyn in terms of support by banning the new members from voting, but in their usual ham-fisted way I suspect they've done him a favour.

Seems to me JC was saying ISIS and Israel were broadly equivalent but that Muslims/Jew respectively shouldn't be blamed as a whole for the actions of either.

I can't see how it can be read any other way.

"Suppose he'd said "Jews can't be blamed for Netanyahu any more than ladybirds can be blamed for the weather", does that mean he's equating Netanyahu and the weather?"

Which is why he didn't choose something he regarded as not equivalent, he chose something he thought was equivalent. A statement of that kind makes no sense if you choose a comparison with no equivalence as you just demonstrated.

He could have avoided comparisons all together and just said all Jews aren't to blame for what Isreal does.

A statement of that kind makes no sense if you choose a comparison with no equivalence as you just demonstrated.

Umm - no - I precisely did not. What is equivalent is the RELATIONSHIP, not the ladybirds etc. But the sun is already shining and educating the uneducable is not on my to-do list for today, so think what you want to think.

"But the sun is already shining and educating the uneducable is not on my to-do list for today, so think what you want to think."

Have a great day. I shall be taking my family to the beach for breakfast with all the enthusiasm of an Isis lorry bomber vaporising families of innocent Shias in a marketplace. (Hmmm. I don't think these kind of non-equivalent ISIS comparisons are going to catch on...)

“Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations.”

I would suggest that there is a comparison going on both explicitly and implicitly. The issue is the implied comparison created by the phraseology

Personally i am not insulted but I can clearly see the issue for people who support the legitimacy of Israel and it's democratic government is part of their political life

I would also say that the wording in my view was deliberate,carefully scripted and in the context of the forum it was given designed to achieve the effect it did

you cannot say with a straight face that this was a normal and good-intentioned sort of discourse that has been badly distorted by a hostile media

Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations.”

Our Cycling friends on STW are no more responsible for the actions of red light jumpers or pavement cyclists than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations.”

You have to be spectacularly confused to think I just said that cycling on the pavement or jumping a red light was equivalent to ISIS actions or that I am comparing them.

he does not say
Israel are just as bad as ISIS
This is not even a debatable point its just folk putting their politics before the facts or their failure to understand a fairly simple point on public display.

I dont think it was a wise thing to say in the context of the report and give the media hostility but he still did not say what is claimed.

Also:

jambalaya -

As Corbyn has been attempting to make women's rights a central part of his campaign 45 (half) of Labours female MPs have written to him asking him to deal with specific sexist abuse of them by his supporters

How do we know that this 'specific sexist abuse' has been perpetrated by Corbyn's supporters? Thats not been stated anywhere- possibly inferred?- but not stated. Evidence?

At least someone is impressed by your playground antics.

How do we know that this 'specific sexist abuse' has been perpetrated by Corbyn's supporters?

Apparently it's the security services, Len reckons we'll get the truth in 30 years time

I can see it now, hushed room in GCHQ and someone desperately searching for funny cat video's that would undermine JC. Someone else watching The Thick Of It to get quality lines of abuse to tweet to anyone in the PLP who doesn't like JC

I think the argument on this one is the same as the one for Boris's article in which he referred to a report which suggest that Obama's Kenyan heritage informed his view of Britain. Neither said explicitly what they are accused of, but by phrasing it in the way they did, they made it possible to think that is what they were implying.

Its one of those

the security services and the police do have a long and ignoble tradition of doing this to discredit organisation and do themselves, oh the irony, entryism

We have no way of knowing one way or the other and the beauty is when someone claims they are doing it we will all tend to think swivel eyed tin foil hat wearing loon.

Its a good way to discredit him though and keep him marginalised and its impossible to prove and even claim it makes him and his supporters look "weird".

I think the argument on this one is the same as the one for Boris's article [b]he plagiarised from the Guardian [/b]which he referred to a report which suggest that Obama's Kenyan heritage informed his view of Britain. Neither said explicitly what they are accused of, but by phrasing it in the way they did, they made it possible to think that is what they were implying.

the reality is that the Guardian ran nearly the same article pointing out the same things why no hysteria then?

Its a good way to discredit him though and keep him marginalised and its impossible to prove and even claim it makes him and his supporters look "weird".

so Len's interview on the security services infiltrating the social media campaigns and bullying people was done by the security services to discredit Len???

or

are they faking it, not doing anything but feeding rumours to Len and co that they are and then encouraging them to give interviews on it to make them (Len and co) look like swivel eyed loons??

The scoop belonged to Tim Shipman who was at the Telegraph at the time. There was a big furore over it at the time, which was confused by the fact that there were two busts of Churchill in the White House.

So.......where are we at when it comes to discrediting Corbyn ?

First it was that he is a far-left marxist whose extreme left-wing policies would completely turn-off the electorate. When this was exposed as nonsense the claim was quietly dropped.

Next it was claimed that under Corbyn Labour would experience catastrophic electoral meltdown. When this was exposed as nonsense this claim was also quietly dropped and the threat was reduced to "won't do well enough to win the the next general election".

Accepting that predicting the next general election result wasn't the most convincing argument the Labour elite, in full collusion with their friends in the media, decided to blame Corbyn for the Labour Party being allegedly riddled with racism.

When this was also exposed as nonsense they decided to mount a coup blaming Corbyn for his alleged lacklustre Remain EU campaign and the fact that 37% of Labour voters voted to Leave (about the same as SNP voters and a lot less than Tory voters).

Faced with the fact that the Home Secretary, Theresa May, was enthusiastically chosen to be Tory leader, and Prime Minister, despite her very lacklustre and unconvincing campaign to remain in the EU, the Labour Parliamentary elite decided to not focus too much on that and instead criticise Corbyn for his allegedly poor performances during Prime Minister's question time.

So incensed where the Blairite/New Labour/career politicians of Corbyn's allegedly poor performances during Prime Minister's question time that they threaten to split the party and go their own separate way if he remained leader.

After all is there anything worse than a leader who doesn't engage in smartarse confrontation with the opposing benches while providing meaningless political posturing for the TV cameras ?

Well actually there is. The overwhelming majority of the British public couldn't give a monkey's about Prime Minister's question time and it is widely accepted that the public are deeply turned off by the confrontational nature of the antics in the House of Commons.

So what next ? Well allegation of bullying is always a good one, it's always been used extensively against trade unions and everyone knows that left-wingers are bullies, now they are bullying Labour MPs.

And of course the great thing about allegations of bullying is that they can be very vague and without any concrete evidence. For example yesterday's big media bullying story was [i]"Corbyn threatened to phone my dad to tell him to have a word with me"[/i].

The accuser didn't have to provide any proof at all of this allegation, you just had to take his word for it, and he freely admitted that Corbyn never phoned his dad anyway. But that didn't stop the media from running it as a major "Corbyn bullying" story.

Of course that fact that the Parliamentary elite spent weeks attempting to bully Corbyn into resigning, even the Tory leader joined in, is completely ignored. As David Graeber said in his Guardian article :

[i][b]"The real concern is not any justified fear among the Labour establishment of bullying and intimidation – the idea that the weak would bully the strong is absurd. It is that they fear being made truly accountable to those they represent".[/i][/b]

But right now bullying allegations seems to be their preferred line of attack. Until presumably they can dream up some another thing to discredit Corbyn for.

But make no mistake, this is just the warm up, if Corbyn remains leader while some Labour MPs might well accept the democratic decision of their party the establishment will intensify their attacks to crush Corbyn as the next general election approaches. Attempts to discredit him will reach the level of hysteria and they will use all the resources at their disposal - Ed Miliband will appreciate that he was only accused of stabbing his brother in the back and of being incapable of eating a greasy dripping bacon sandwich incorrectly.

You ain't seen anything yet.

I have no doubt that Corbyn will be able to handle it, he has proved to be resilient and irrepressible, at least I hope so. The question is will the Labour Party have the same resilience to the bullying still to come ?

That's a long post. He's still not going to win an election, he's still clearly incompetent, and he's still damaging to the left and the wider political economy because of this.

I'm certainly more aligned to the Tories than labour, but unlike others I want him to resign. He is damaging because he is offering no effective opposition to the government. He is playing to the gallery, and that gallery is a tiny proportion of the electorate. He has no worthwhile policies and seems incapable of engaging with the big issues of today - Orgreave is not a high priority for many.

What Bainbridge said. I could not give a flying t**s about Orgreave. I do care about having a effective opposition. I see Corbyn and his cronies in Momentum as just another metropolitan clique no different in their belief of their own self importance than the Notting hill Tories - two cheeks of the same arse and totally irrelevant to the normal bod on the street.

I see Corbyn and his cronies in Momentum as just another metropolitan clique no different in their belief of their own self importance than the Notting hill Tories - two cheeks of the same arse and totally irrelevant to the normal bod on the street.

Well that's a relief ...... Corbyn and his cronies in Momentum are no different to the Notting Hill Tories and like them are totally irrelevant to the normal bod on the street, which presumably means that they have as much chance of winning a general election as the Notting Hill Tories, ie, quite good.

BTW are you a big fan of George Galloway ? Only I ask as you have used what is probably George Galloway's most famous quote : [i]"two cheeks of the same arse".[/i]

He does have a way with words don't you think ?

EDIT : Tits goes through the swear filter no problem - no need to disguise it.

I have no doubt that Corbyn will be able to handle it, he has proved to be resilient and irrepressible

One could almost say you admire his indefatigablity

All this bollocks about effective opposition.

He's been more effective than Ed by a million miles.

One could almost say you admire his indefatigablity

Well yes, ever since George Galloway invented the word I think indefatigability should be used as often as possible, it's a wonderful word. Good call.

That's a long post.

Indeed, we should all be grateful for Ernie's generosity in contributing to a thread that he views as being pointless. Forget indefatigability, the word of the day should be magnanimous.

Corbyn and Livingston are "guilty" (you decide) of the same thing. One is suspended for his pains, the other....?

......a sniff of what?

All this bollocks about effective opposition.

He's been more effective than Ed by a million miles.

An interesting point. With all the constituency boundary chances and the obvious fact that many Labour prospective parliamentary candidates will have to go through the selection process for these new constituencies, and given the current nature of today's new and massively enlarged Labour Party, it is more than likely that the composition of the PLP after the next general election will include a very large number of conviction Labour politicians as the number of Labour political careerists is whittled down.

And it occurred to me recently that even if Labour failed to get a majority, a couple of hundred Jeremy Corbyns in Parliament could do more to fight for, and represent, ordinary working people, than Tony Blair and his New Labour clones ever managed to do with their landslide majority government.

teamhurtmore - Member

we should all be grateful for Ernie's generosity in contributing to a thread that he views as being pointless

It's kind words like that which keeps me coming back in an attempt to inject some sort of point to this thread.

Thank you.

The perspective of a CPGB member on the travails of another party of the left and his indefatigability in maintaining that this other party will have future electoral success and be able to purge those not of the true doctrine is a significant contribution to the thread

more than likely that the composition of the PLP after the next general election will include a very large number of conviction Labour politicians as the number of Labour political careerists is whittled down.

and if they ever get in to power the devastation to the economy will make brexit look trivial...

big_n_daft - Member

....is a significant contribution to the thread

More kind words. But let's not start exaggerating, it's a contribution but I would question how significant it is - the smartarse pointless comments still keep coming.

But let's not start exaggerating, it's a contribution but I would question how significant it is - the smartarse pointless comments still keep coming.

As an insight into a mindset of the left and the collection of fellow travellers who have decided to support JC it is fascinating

an insight into a mindset of the left

Well I'm glad you find it fascinating however if you stopped and thought about it you would perhaps realise that Corbyn's appeal reaches far beyond "the Left".

He received 60% of the vote in the leadership election and 50% of all full party members votes, "the Left" simply isn't that large in the Labour Party. If it were then the present composition of the Parliamentary Labour Party would be very different.

A lot of people who aren't particularly left-wing support Corbyn.

He certainly doesn't get my support because he is left-wing, I can't think of anything which he supports that imo makes him left-wing (other than he's to the left of the Tories obviously). He's just a normal Labour Party member, unlike Tony Blair.

And in the last few days Owen Smith has been going out of his way trying to convince Labour Party members that he is every bit as "left-wing" as Corbyn is. This isn't a left-wing issue. It is much more than that.

Yes its I interesting that Owen Smith is saying that, I thought Corbyn was too left wing for the PLP/ media / electorate.

I assume he's fibbing to get votes.

Yep, Owen Smith is pitching for the "radical" left-wing vote in a bid to defeat Corbyn.

Mind you he is not the only one - the new leader of the Tory Party seems to have got exactly the same idea.

This is what Theresa May had to say in a speech last week :

[i][b] "Because right now, if you’re born poor, you will die on average nine years earlier than others. If you’re black, you’re treated more harshly by the criminal justice system than if you’re white. If you’re a white, working-class boy, you’re less likely than anybody else to go to university.

"If you’re at a state school, you’re less likely to reach the top professions than if you’re educated privately. If you’re a woman, you still earn less than a man. If you suffer from mental health problems, there’s too often not enough help to hand. If you’re young, you’ll find it harder than ever before to own your own home." [/i][/b]

Which sounded remarkably like the sort of thing that Jeremy Corbyn might say. In fact this is what Corbyn said in a speech also last week :

[i][b] "Last year Britain was ranked 18th in the world for its gender pay gap, below Nicaragua, Namibia and New Zealand. We can and must do far better. So Labour is calling time on the waiting game and I am making the commitment today that the next Labour government will require all employers with more than 21 staff to publish equality pay audits detailing pay, grade and hours of every job alongside data on recognised equality characteristics.

"Because it is not only women who face workplace discrimination but disabled workers, the youngest and oldest workers, black and ethnic minority workers. Young workers are institutionally discriminated against, not entitled to the full minimum wage not entitled to equal rates of housing benefit and so many are now saddled with huge student debts." [/i][/b]

[url= http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/jeremy-corbyns-campaign-speech-full-i-came-politics-stand-against ]Jeremy Corbyn's campaign speech in full: "I came into politics to stand up against injustice"[/url]

.

You know you are mounting an effective opposition when the Prime Minister is trying to mimic you and steal your clothes.

"Yes its I interesting that Owen Smith is saying that, I thought Corbyn was too left wing for the PLP/ media / electorate."

I assume they've put up a tame left winger tolerable to the members. Then if he wins (no chance) he'll resign and a potential election winner will take over. David Milliband offered a safe by election seat perhaps.

Last year Britain was ranked 18th in the world for its gender pay gap, below Nicaragua, Namibia and New Zealand. We can and must do far better. So Labour is calling time on the waiting game and I am making the commitment today that the next Labour government will require all employers with more than 21 staff to publish equality pay audits detailing pay, grade and hours of every job alongside data on recognised equality characteristics.

Yet he can't take the lead due to how much key people in his office get paid,

When is labour going to publish their stats or is it all for show?

Are you not a Corbyn supporter big n daft ?

I will like him a lot more when he publishes the Labour Party equality pay audit

I know you are faithfully attempting to repeat something which read in the Daily Telegraph, or some other right-wing source, Big n Daft, but you are getting a little mixed up. You are talking about [i]"his office"[/i] and [i]"the Labour Party"[/i] as if it's the same thing, which of course it isn't.

What you are obviously trying to do is to claim that Corbyn is a hypocrite who isn't in the least bit concerned about the gender pay gap, because that's the line of attack that you've seen the right-wing press take.

The problem, however, is that I don't give a toss whether you think Corbyn is a hypocrite, and quite frankly I'm surprised that you appear to think I might.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/24/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-mutiny-desperation ]Andrew Rawnsley sums up Corbyn and his ridiculous, narcissistic personality cult perfectly in today's Observer[/url]

It's absolutely tragic! Though I'm sure the three quid trots will be absolutely overjoyed with its 'victory' as they gleefully make the Labour Party an electoral irrelevance, a totally ineffective, nasty, self-absorbed, leftie Echo chamber, and allow the Tories a totally unopposed political hegemony 😥

binners they managed to win a UKIP seat on a Parish Council in a recent byelection

the mainstream media failed to cover this as it's all part of the conspiracy of silence when JC or Labour wins anything

That is just more of the usual middle class guardian crap aimed at Corbyn - its all his fault he lost the PLP - they tried really really hard to support him- which is complete bollocks- but he lost them because he is crap

The reality is the PLP dont like what they party has delivered and they think they can usurp democracy because they know best

He will win again and the PLP may split the party- the arrogant bastards will still be blaming Corbyn for it

He will win again and the PLP may split the party- the arrogant bastards will still be blaming Corbyn for it

Though I'm sure the three quid trots will be absolutely overjoyed with its 'victory' as they gleefully make the Labour Party an electoral irrelevance, a totally ineffective, nasty, self-absorbed, leftie Echo chamber, and allow the Tories a totally unopposed political hegemony

Well look on the bright side binners, if Owen Smith were to win you would have to redirect all that pent-up hatred and ranting drivel at him.

You have already preformed a spectacular political somersault on this thread since it started by going from lavishly praising Corbyn and intensely denouncing his detractors, to reaching new dizzy heights of hatred for Corbyn and his supporters.

With Owen Smith losing it will mean that you can carry on focusing on hating Corbyn and Momentum without any further backtracking.

Why hate another Labour leader when you can carry on hating the present one ?

Plus of course you can carry on using your recently discovered term "3 quid Trots" which you obviously think is absolutely brilliant and want to use at every opportunity.

Owen Smith losing will be a win-win for you.

That is just more of the usual middle class guardian crap aimed at Corbyn - its all his fault he lost the PLP - they tried really really hard to support him- which is complete bollocks- but he lost them because he is crap

The reality is the PLP dont like what they party has delivered and they think they can usurp democracy because they know best

so your case is that all the stuff about how he undermines his frontbench team, can't organise the party and present an effective opposition is the PLP misrepresenting the streamlined efficient organisation that is now the leaders office and motivated by personal ambition?

that despite the broad church of the PLP putting up with serial disloyalty to whipped votes by JC and co that his insistence on loyalty to the party leader is right and proper and any in the PLP who don't agree should resign ahead of reselection?

and that anyone who subscribes to Dan Hodges view that [i]"Jeremy Corbyn is not a nice or decent man. He is a coward. He is a hypocrite. He is a bully. And he is a fraud."[/i] should go and join the conservative party?

I dont discuss the labour party with tories as they dont actually GAS and have a bigger agenda than the PLP
I meant what I said you can troll it with your bias using straw mans as much as you like....this is clearly quite a lot...but i wont be engaging with you beyond mockery ...which lets be honest is all you are doing anyway

and that anyone who subscribes to Dan Hodges view that "Jeremy Corbyn is not a nice or decent man. He is a coward. He is a hypocrite. He is a bully. And he is a fraud." should go and join the conservative party?

I dont discuss the labour party with tories as they dont actually GAS and have a bigger agenda than the PLP

in this case JY the Tories really do GAS. They want to see Jezza resoundingly re-elected, as it would be like all their birthdays and christmases come at once. The electoral oblivion for their supposed opposition, gift wrapped with a big pink ribbon, and lovingly placed under the tree for them by santa.

You have already preformed a spectacular political somersault on this thread since it started by going from lavishly praising Corbyn and intensely denouncing his detractors, to reaching new dizzy heights of hatred for Corbyn and his supporters.

Comrade - its called evaluating evidence and making your decisions based on that. Pragmatism. You should try it sometime. Those 'swing voters' in 'marginal seats' generally do. And how do you think the beardy messiah is looking to them right now? Coming across well? He's (somewhat unbelievably) managed to make his predecessor look like a towering political heavyweight

Oh... and please spare us the local parish council election results as the proof otherwise? Its literally like quoting tractor production figures comrade.

I recognised that the party needed a change of direction. I didn't vote for Corbyn. But once he was installed as leader I really wanted it to work. But its been an absolute disaster. An unmitigated catastrophe more or less from day one. I've been staggered by his utter political cluelessness. He is hopelessly ill-qualified for the role he's presently in.

But what has worried me most is, since the referendum, he has retreated into this paranoid delusional 80's, retro, Militant tendency, if-you're-not-with-us-you're-against-us bunker mentality echo chamber of Momentum, with the same thuggishness that went along with that at the time. I think its genuinely sinister. He seems absolutely unwilling, or just incapable of even engaging with anyone outside his own narrow left-wing mindset. Very much like yourself.

And the thing is I know that most people in this centrist (mostly) liberal country of ours will be looking on equally aghast at the prospect at the very idea of someone so spectacularly out of his depth, and who's followers/disciples/thugs are resorting to some pretty unpleasant intimidation tactics as 'leader of the opposition' (apparently) ever getting a sniff of real power.

With every day that this nonsense goes on, he becomes less and less electable. The labour party is a laughing stock, or a disaster area, depending on your political leanings. But what it certainly isn't is a party thats even capable of providing an opposition, never mind form a government.

i don't know where they answer lies. But it certainly isn't here. Thats for sure.

I've been staggered by his utter political cluelessness. He is hopelessly ill-qualified for the role he's presently in

he has retreated into this paranoid delusional

what it certainly isn't is a party thats even capable of providing an opposition, never mind form a government.

i don't know where they answer lies. But it certainly isn't here. Thats for sure.

I tend to agree but the real issue is the PLP think they can ignore the members

It depends on whether you regard the new 'members' as something as innocent as that title suggests, or whether they are effectively a guerrilla insurgency? If its the former, then fine. its not though, is it?

it depends on whether you ignore the fact that he won the vote without the new members and you want to overstate their importance to draw similarities to militants of the 80's.

FWIW i know two mates who joined in the this one just to vote against Corbyn. Both are sympathetic to him and his views but feel as you do.

Still not sure which way I will go as I have despised what the PLP have done but its seems inevitable , given how they will act, that he can unite them and win.

I dont want to really vote for either tbh 😥

One group is going to have to leave and set up afresh - the only question is who gets the party machinery and the [s]money[/s] debt. If the PLP rebels can leave, get some funding arranged, they must be tempted to just consign Jeremy's loyal MPs to the minor placings in the Commons.

If they stop dithering and get on with it, in theory they've got nearly four years as the official opposition to get some backers and organise before putting their new party in front of the electorate.

When they refuse to be led by the elected leader and openly revolt against him

Of course The Messiah would never have revolted against a party leader, would he. Defied the party line? Oh. Actually....

I don't discuss the labour party with [s]tories [/s][b]people who have a vote in the forthcoming leadership election,[/b] [b]as Corbyn and Momentum, [/b] [s]they [/s]dont actually GAS and have a bigger agenda than the PLP

FIFY

[url= http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/14/working-class-britain-is-taking-its-power-back-and-the-establishment-is-freaking-out/ ]http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/14/working-class-britain-is-taking-its-power-back-and-the-establishment-is-freaking-out/[/url]

Sorry Yunki, but I always struggle with the Canary and the Daily Mash. Apparently one of them isn't satire?

Momentum have 8000 members the Labour party has 500000 voters I assume this sort of complicated maths is within your grasp as to work out "control".

Momentum cannot do anything without the rest of the Labour family

Incredible restaurants serving cuisine from around the world, neighbours and friends who grew up in other countries and found a new home here, thriving arts and culture, the sons and daughters of manual workers going to work in a suit rather than overalls, access to university being commonplace and expected.

Sounds good. More, please.

waaah.... I feel bullied by Binners 🙁

Shut it Yunki!

[img] [/img]

it depends on whether you ignore the fact that he won the vote without the new members and you want to overstate their importance to draw similarities to militants of the 80's.

Yes, you keep going on about the importance of his popularity amongst members

Can you imagine if the Tory party were stupid enough to trust their members with a choice like that?

[img] [/img]

So do we live in Tory England, SNP Scotland or Welsh Labour land as that's the foreseeable future. We can all argue the toss over Corbyn V the PLP but as Binners and many others have pointed out unless someone comes up with a broadly electable labour "type" party this whole thread is pointless bollocks - all the working class/benefits folk whose brexit vote has compounded this miserable situation need to sit in the naughty (thinking) step, this is all an unmitigated disaster- has anyone ever seen a first world country vote it self into a situation like this?

Labour members were given the choice of 4 candidates. Corbyn was the best choice.

And interesting about momentum numbers.

binners - Member

Oh... and please spare us the local parish council election results as the proof otherwise? Its literally like quoting tractor production figures comrade.

I haven't got a clue what you are talking about although I guess there's a possibility that you might. What "local parish council election results" ?

BTW as a Corbyn supporter you think that I am a, quote, [i]"nasty, self-absorbed, leftie"[/i] and now, apparently, [i]"genuinely sinister"[/i] with a [i]"narrow left-wing mindset".[/i]......you're a right little charmer towards people that you don't agree with politically, aren't you ?

I didn't vote for Corbyn.

So you lied then - all that stuff about intending to vote for Corbyn and cancelling your Guardian subscription earlier on this thread was just a load of bollocks. Well that puts some sort of perspective on the motives behind your endless rants on here - you just spout whatever comes into your head at that particular time.

Anyway moving back on topic :

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36877185 ]John McDonnell: Corbyn's critics willing to 'destroy' Labour[/url]

Everyone pretty much agrees that the row orchestrated by the plotters and which is tearing the party apart is doing enormous damage to Labour. It's hard to imagine how it couldn't.

And I can almost accept the argument "Well yes, but getting hid of Corbyn will be good for the Labour Party so the short term damage justifies the ends", if you believe that.

However it is now universally accepted, even by binners, that Corbyn will win the next leadership contest - the entire attempted coup was based on the premise that if they bullied and intimidated Corbyn enough he would eventually be forced to resign. They knew from the onset that if he remained leader and was on the ballot paper that he would win.

So now that it has become clear that Owen Smith won't replace Corbyn you could be forgiven for thinking that for the sake of the party the plotters would ease off on their attacks against him and reduce any further damage.

But instead, despite knowing that he will still be leader after the next ballot, they have actually intensified their attacks on Corbyn, with obviously no regards for the damage they are continuing to cause to Labour.

I think we can probably assume that they now realise that their days are numbered - the Blairites/New Labour/political careerists will not regain control of the party. So they now appear intent on inflicting as much damage as possible on Labour before they either retire from politics or form their own separate party.

EDIT : It should perhaps be pointed that the above critique doesn't of course apply to all Labour MPs. Among all the self-serving careerists, which Tony Blair epitomizes so well, there has [i]always[/i] been genuinely committed MPs. I personally would never have put the figure as high as 20% but that does appear to be the case at the present.

Ernie would you not agree that Corbyn's Labour isn't really the Blairite labour that people associate with the Labour Party. Nothing wrong with that in itself, but if the Party must split because there are two different factions then at least people will know who and what they are voting for and what the values are. It's then up to each Party to get its message across and garner enough support for a majority. You never know they could form a coalition government and share power! There's a thought.

These self serving careerists have no place in a socialist party, that they hijacked it years ago and have been loyally ensuring that it is a softer version of the tories and now we have a chance of restoring the labour party to its original roots --
Sure they all running scared of Mr Unelectable , but its what he represents that scares them --people engaging with an alternative to the corporate agenda-- many hundreds of thousands who are just the tip of the iceberg that will sink the bad ship austerity .
Like many others i havent bought print media for years and avoid television as its just so biased -- radio has one or two honorable exceptions but as someone said --things arent getting worse , they are just more obvious.
I'm certain that those 170 odd so called labour members who are unhappy with the agenda set by the membership can be replaced by willing and enthusistic people who are--they were mostly planted by blair and his regime and like him their days are over .

Havent read all the comments on this thread , but for some info i have been elected to my county council with 65% of the vote ......interesting times

So, it seems that matters are swiftly coming to a conclusion, which suggests the only possible option is for a split, with a new party being created. What's it going to be called....any ideas?

Social Democrats? Might have been used before
BWP - Blair Witch Party

Havent read all the comments on this thread , but for some info i have been elected to my county council with 65% of the vote ......interesting times

Where?

And what is your answer to dog fouling in public places 😉

Gwynedd Council as an independent.

Like a phoenix from the ashes the ghost of Paddy Ashdown - anything is possible after all George Freeman is Theresa Mays Policy Guru - try researching that fella

The Islington Popular Front IPF it's got a ring to it

There is a good tradition of independent liberal representation at Council level in Wales, or in Mid / North Wales.

Gwynedd Council as an independent.

They look like they ride a bike as much as I do.....

Corbyn is seen as pretty toxic in Wales which is why he was asked to keep away from the Assembly elections and why, all being well, Welsh labour will go its own way very shortly.

And the dog fouling policy is far better than my councils

https://www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru/en/Residents/Dogs-and-environmental-health/Dogs/Dog-control-orders.aspx

Dogs will be banned from:
land within the boundaries of schools, further and higher education establishments
children’s playing fields
recreational land
designated zones on specific beaches from 1 April to 30 September - view list and maps of beaches.
Dogs must be put on leads when directed to do so by an authorised officer, if the officer deems the dog to be causing a nuisance or annoyance in outdoor public places.

Corbyn is seen as pretty toxic in Wales which is why he was asked to keep away from the Assembly elections and why, all being well, Welsh labour will go its own way very shortly.

I had a chat with a former labour leader of a major Scottish city and he thinks labour are toast up there, conservatives on the up and the SNP going to fall back as their policy failures play out