Jeremy Corbyn

Good to see Tom Watson getting some nice funding coming through to help him run his office.....

I'd rather see Max Mosley donate directly to Hacked Off but I understand he does that as well. Watson has been a big campaigner for Press Regulation (Hacked Off) and I have met him on a couple of occasions and heard him speak very powerfully. Future Labour Leader I imagine.

Loving the transformation of corbyn into a gangster, keep up troops, loving yer work! 😆

Kinnock speech to the PLP - people have often discussed him as one of the truly great orators... Well, he's still got it:

https://soundcloud.com/user-152148676/neil-kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/08/secret-recording-neil-kinnock-jeremy-corbyn-step-down-speech-to-mps-in-full?CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1467999694

seosamh77 - Member

Loving the transformation of corbyn into a gangster, keep up troops, loving yer work!
Posted 4 hours ago # Report-Post

It is good the levels Jamby esp will sink to,but then he is an ardent expansionist Zionist( oh dear: that word!) So much of his desperate bile is because of the fear of having a PM who isn't supportive of Israel. To me that shows Corbyn is doing something right.

Can you imagine the furore it would cause in the media if Corbyn appointed a shadow foreign secretary who insults entire cities and has a history of premeditated derogatory racist comments going back many years ?

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-barack-obama-kenya-remarks-accused-dog-whistle-racism-john-mcdonnell-labour-a6996286.html ]Boris Johnson accused of ‘dog whistle racism’ over controversial Barack Obama Kenya remarks[/url]

[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/boris-says-sorry-over-blacks-have-lower-iqs-article-in-the-spectator-6630340.html ]Boris says sorry over 'blacks have lower IQs' article in the Spectator[/url]

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jan/23/london.race ]Johnson's 'piccaninnies' apology[/url]

Following the xenophobic official Brexit campaign Johnson is clearly the best man the Tories have to deal with a bunch of foreigners.

The media would be beside themselves if Corbyn did something like that. However it's different for May because Johnson is posh and right-wing. So that's alright.

@ernie...totally agree. There was a very big laugh in our house this morning when we found out his new position. Of all the people she could pick...doesn't send out a great message regarding her thinking as a leader...

Ernie you'd gladly elect a Marxist government so I don't know why you persist with this artificial veil of credibility.

edenvalleyboy - Member
... Of all the people she could pick...doesn't send out a great message regarding her thinking as a leader...

If we assume she isn't stupid, then she is sending a very clear message to the EU.

It's not often I agree with ernie, but on this occasion I do 100%. The hypocrisy of the media when criticising they left side of politics is frankly astounding when you compare it to the cushy love-in the provide for the xenophobic, belligerent and untruthful right wing.

The only thing I have to say about Boris is that I suspect he's been deliberately promoted so far above is capability that he'll soon stuff up and have to resign in disgrace. I do hope I'm correct in this presumption.

...and an observation: If Corbyn has narked off the right wing extremists on here such as jamby and ninfan, then in my book he must be doing something right. Simultaneously unelectable and yet also a threat to national security; Schroedinger's socialist.

It's not often I agree with Zokes... 😛 But there has to be an angle to putting BJ as FS.

here has to be an angle to putting BJ as FS.

The view presented on R4 today sounds credible.

So the thinking is: FS is a bit related to Brexit. All the roles related to Brexit are filled by Brexiteers. If it turns out Brexit is practical and a good thing, great. If closer scrutiny determines that Brexit is bat-shit mental then the Brexiteers will have to justify not brexiting to their own supporters. May can take credit if it works, Boris et al take blame if it fails. It's 100pc the right thing to do.

Can you imagine the furore it would cause in the media if Corbyn appointed a shadow foreign secretary who insults entire cities and has a history of premeditated derogatory racist comments going back many years ?

Yes but how many people can actually name the current shadow foreign secreatary or any of their political cock ups? (without using google)
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Thornberry ]Click to Reveal 😉 Unless they jave resigned by now[/url]

I'd love to think there is a clever angle we don't know about but tbh I see politicians as just normal people muddling through their role and often they get it wrong...look at Brexit and the lack of a plan offered to the voters...besides, why do we think she's intelligent? What's so special about her or any of the other MP's ahead of people on here? What's the evidence she's smart?

Yes but how many people can actually name the current shadow foreign secreatary

She doesn't seem that effective:

In March 2008, Thornberry claimed that almost every child in Islington had been mugged at some stage.[19] This was denied by the Metropolitan Police as 'speculation', pointing out that out of a borough population of 180,000, only 750 people under 18 had reported being the victims of mugging in 2007.[20] However, the comments were deemed a hindrance to Labour London Mayor Ken Livingstone's re-election campaign.

I'd love to think there is a clever angle we don't know about

It's not that clever, and we *do* know about it 'cos you can bet the spin doctors have explained the strategy to journos who passed it straight onto us.

I suppose the risk is that Boris might be incapable of doing the day-to-day job, but it's not that different to Mayor, galvanting around the world shaking hands with people while Civil Servants handle the detail.

Simultaneously unelectable and yet also a threat to national security; Schroedinger's socialist.

A little more hire cost but quite a lot more fuel cost covering the milage from Bath to Scotland

[quote=enfht ]Ernie you'd gladly elect a Marxist government so I don't know why you persist with this artificial veil of credibility.

Unlike you he despises racism

How racist a govt would you vote for UKIP?
EDL?
BNP?
Why persist with this artificial veil of credibility just be open and say how racist you really are.

So let's get this right. The man who was in charge of a campaign that believed the UK shouldnt be a part of a club (a club that was a community of countries which believed in relationships as the way forward).., then gets a role based entirely upon building/maintaining relationships with other countries... classic 😀

After watching channel 4 news interview with Joanne Baxter last night it would appear we really are heading back to the more pleasant attributes of labour party/Militant politics. Its absolutely disgusting what is now going on. Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation, as it suits their ends, ultimately. They may not be orchestrating it, but they're complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them. All very familiar....

[img] [/img]

And with the referendum allowing the mainstream centre right to tacitly endorse the more thuggish and racist elements of the far right wing, what a lovely political landscape we are creating.

A few weeks ago it appeared on the surface that we were living in a tolerant and civilised society. That no longer seems to be the case 😥

Is this a thread about Jezza? 😉

@binners...I find it more disgusting you support an MP who was in favour of welfare cuts and still call yourself a Labour supporter...

Well that says more about you than it does about me.

You denounce anyone who disagrees with you as a 'Tory'. How very inclusive of you. Like Ernie denouncing me as a posh boy (saying I went to 'a posh middle class school with a cabinet minister- it was a comprehensive in Warrington with Andy Burnham FFS!!!) , so he can dismiss my opinions too. Its all very Taliban-esque. Those true believers who shout the loudest get to dismiss everyone else as non-believers, and therefore unworthy of being listened too. Shuttting down debate by threatening people into silence. Is that 'democracy' and 'free speech', Labour party style nowadays?

And i wouldn't condone threats and violence against anyone, no matter how much i disagree with their opinions. Yet the leftists behind Jeremy regard this as fair game 'For The Cause'

I get more despairing with each passing day as to what is happening to the labour party. Its a tragedy. I watched it in th 80's. I never thought I'd see it agin. But it seems that those who don't learn from history really are doomed to repeat it. How depressing 😥

You denounce anyone who disagrees with you as a 'Tory'. How very inclusive of you. Like Ernie denouncing me as a posh boy (saying I went to 'a posh middle class school - it was a comprehensive in Warrington FFS!!!) , so he can dismiss my opinions too.

When he names his alter ego after someone who led show trials and mass executions, is to the left of JC, denouncing people should get you worried in the new world of "a kinder gentler politics"

From the Owen Jones article on the Guardian

[i]we can’t ignore polling that is below what Ed Miliband achieved at the same stage in the electoral cycle – before going on to lose; Corbyn’s own personal rating is now -41, a catastrophic level, with more Labour voters dissatisfied than satisfied. [/i]

Not exactly a great picture for Corbyn.

Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation

Its not hard to see why feelings are running strong on both sides.

however to try and portray the Blairite coup as the poor victims of bullying is a lasy trope designed to deflect us from the fact they are the ones dabbling in the dark arts of anti democracy themselves. Surprisingly this has made folk a bit cross. No one likes it, no one wants it and its not Corbyn fault the PLP has so angered the membership by ignoring their wishes.

They may not be orchestrating it, but they're complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them.

Its all very Taliban-esque.

Its **** all like the Taliban. When someone turns up at your house and kills you , then burns the house to the ground then sells your kids into slavery....then we can talk about that

FFS man get a bloody grip

Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation, as it suits their ends, ultimately. They may not be orchestrating it, but they're complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them

Yes indeed. The new gentler politics eh ? Looks and smells like classic hard left tactics, shut down opposition and rule as an autocrat.

Corbyn's silence on rhe Momentum abuse of NEC members at least adds weight to his argument that his lack of action over OULB etc is not encouraging racism as it shows he allows attacks on all opponents equally.

@duckman, Corbyn has zero chance of being PM, none. Nor any other position to influence UK policy. What he will continue to be is a focal point and rallying call for anti-semites and homophobes. This wasn't intentional on his behalf but as per the inaction over Momentum he is complicit as binners says. As for "bile" I have been less forthright in my comments about Corbyn than have many in the Labour Party, you only have to look at the wholesale and widespread condemnation of his "report" into anti-semitism from the Jewish community to see that my views are shared widely.

@zokes ninfan and I both supported Corbyn for leader of the Labour party. As I said many times, his appointment will "put to bed" hard left politics within Labour for decades. If that takes a General Election in 2020 so be it.

Kinnock speech to the PLP - people have often discussed him as one of the truly great orators... Well, he's still got it:

Was that when he described Corbyn as "unelectable"? It takes one to know one I suppose...

JY - The Corbynites yourself included are paranoid and delusional, and seem to think that these perceived injustices justify any means in winning this 'war'. Its truly tragic.. Just watch this..... [url= http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/130716/clipid/130716_4ON_LABOUR_PAB_1307 ]interview with Joanne Baxter[/url]

and having watched it, tell me you feel comfortable that that is taking place inside the labour party. Because its being carried out by people expressing the very same opinions you, and others on this thread are.

How do you think this is looking to the wider electorate?

A sure fire vote winner?

What planet are you people living on?

Corbyn's silence on rhe Momentum abuse of NEC

You mean the silence where he's repeatedly condemned intimidation at every opportunity in the newspapers, on the telly, in speeches at rallies etc?

JY is right, blairite MPs whingeing about intimidation when they are orchestrating an undemocratic coup against the wishes of party members is pretty unbelievable. Do they simply expect the members to accept what's happening, shut up and know their place? The problem all along has never been one of Corbyn's incompetence or McDonnell's ability to put his foot in his mouth, but is the PLP's flat refusal to accept the result of a democratic election, and their continuing attempts to usurp that through undemocratic means.

We have a PLP that is what percentage of the labour movment 0.0001% trying to usurp a democratically elected leader

however to try and portray the Blairite coup as the poor victims of bullying is a lasy trope designed to deflect us from the fact they are the ones dabbling in the dark arts of anti democracy themselves.

Again... just a paranoid, delusional bunker mentality

Each one of those MP's has been selected by their constituency associations, stood at a general election, and been duly returned by a majority of their constituents. I fail to see how this is held up as being anti-democratic

The way the left are banging on, you'd think they'd all been appointed as regional chiefs by Tony Himself, sat on a big gold throne in a bond villain lair. I really do feel you need to re-aquaint yourselves with reality. The one going on outside the bunker

This thread is like a room in a pub full of fat old men barking on about stuff they have very little or no real understanding of, whilst getting steadily drunker and more belligerent. Every so often, someone more sober and rational wanders in, and attempts to engage with the drunks, but soon realises it's utterly pointless and a complete waste of time, and buggers off again. The landlord thinks 'oh well at least they keep buying drinks'. Binners has attempted to start a fight with his own reflection in the toilet mirror, and Jambalaya is lying under the table having soiled himself. Someone needs to call time on the drunks, and let them wander out into the dark. And who's going to clean up all that sick?

"*Clod; if you're going to post bollocks on here, then at least follow Binners' example and make it amusing. "

Thanks; if I ever decide to post bollocks on here (I haven't so far but you never know,I could get really, really drunk), I might follow that advice. Meanwhile, your taxis here. 😀

"it was a comprehensive in Warrington with Andy Burnham FFS!!!"

Andy Burnham went to a voluntary aided Catholic school in a small rural town, hardly the tough inner city comp that you seem to be trying to play 'working class top trumps' with! 😆

And he went to Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge. And doesn't seem to have had a 'proper' working class job in his life. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but hardly someone you can hold up as a shining example of a rags-to-riches working class hero.

If you went to school with Andy Burnham, you went to a much 'posher' school than I did!

The Corbynites yourself included are paranoid and delusional

I am not a corbynista and its pretty obvious reading this thread as to who is paranoid and delusional and who is trying to have a rational conversation with a frothing loon.

TBH Binners when you are making jambys constant barbs look measured its time to take a deep breath.

Corbyn's silence on rhe Momentum abuse of NEC members at least adds weight to his argument that his lack of action over OULB etc is not encouraging racism as it shows he allows attacks on all opponents equally.

Some of momentum are very cross and behaving in away they should not be doing and being anti democratic. Corbyn does not authorise these, has criticised them /asked for it to cease. The PLP is ignoring the party, attempting a coup and trying to usurp a legally elected leader with a powerful mandate.

To only attack one side as bullies takes some serious inability to analyse reality. I expected this of rabid RW jambot and his incereasingly irrational wibblings but not you Binners

Each one of those MP's has been selected by their constituency associations, stood at a general election, and been duly returned by a majority of their constituents. I fail to see how this is held up as being anti-democratic

This thread is like a room in a pub full of fat old men barking on about stuff they have very little or no real understanding of, whilst getting steadily drunker and more belligerent. Every so often, someone more sober and rational wanders in, and attempts to engage with the drunks, but soon realises it's utterly pointless and a complete waste of time, and buggers off again. The landlord thinks 'oh well at least they keep buying drinks'. Binners has attempted to start a fight with his own reflection in the toilet mirror, and Jambalaya is lying under the table having soiled himself. Someone needs to call time on the drunks, and let them wander out into the dark. And who's going to clean up all that sick?

Anyway, aside from the ranting, I wonder if [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader ]Owen Smith's latest idea [/url] could be a game changer? It's certainly a challenge to Corbyn on probably his weakest policy area. I personally know many Corbyn supporters who were also staunch remainers, and include myself in that category, and whilst I won't be voting this time (£25? Aye right!) it would definitely have me thinking.

I'm upset that any of you think that Jeremy has any responsibility for the actions of Momentum activists

Momentum is an entirely independent and legitimate group standing up for Labour Party ideals, most definitely not a 'party within a party' and bears no links with Jeremy

The way you lot go on, it's as if it's really some form of dedicated Jeremy Corbyn supporters campaign organisation

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09655767

binners - Member
After watching channel 4 news interview with Joanne Baxter last night it would appear we really are heading back to the more pleasant attributes of labour party/Militant politics. Its absolutely disgusting what is now going on. Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation, as it suits their ends, ultimately. They may not be orchestrating it, but they're complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them. All very familiar....

i never really took you as one to lap up the media line, quite surprised tbh.

Is this the media line that Corbyn supporters are bullying, or the media line that there is a media line to smear Corbyn supporters?

It's not exactly a secret that Momentum started off as Corbyn's campaign supporters group, so you're deliberately misrepresenting that.

The upshot of all this is that when people in positions of power (in this case the PLP) attempt to usurp and ignore the people who they report to then those people are going to respond in some equally unconventional manner. They can complain about it all they like, but they need to recognise the consequences of their actions. In the meantime some people (like Joanne Baxter) get caught in the crossfire.

"I'm upset that any of you think that Jeremy has any responsibility for the actions of Momentum activists
Momentum is an entirely independent and legitimate group standing up for Labour Party ideals, most definitely not a 'party within a party' and bears no links with Jeremy
The way you lot go on, it's as if it's really some form of dedicated Jeremy Corbyn supporters campaign organisation
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0965576 7"

😀

i never really took you as one to lap up the media line, quite surprised tbh.

Have you watched it? its an interview with a woman who is labour through and through, on Channel 4 news, who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation she's been on the receiving end of from Momentum members.

Thats hardly an editorial in the Sun, is it?

I'll ask the Corbyn supporters again though:

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate, say a floating voter in a marginal constituency? Do you think this rent-a-mob behavior, which is so similar to the tactics of the Militant Tendency int the 80's, is going to be a vote winner?

" who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation "

😆

You really are fantastic value for money, Binners.

So she was just faking the tears in a cynical strategic ploy to discredit JC and Momentum?

She's very good at it, right up there with Gwynnie.

who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation she's been on the receiving end of from Momentum members.

Given that the PLP were blatantly trying to gerrymander and engineer a new leadership election without Corbyn on the ballot, do you not think they and their supporters bear a large amount of responsibility? The NEC members should never have even been put in the position of having to vote on it, as it was clearly against democratic principles and common sense.

I think I'll bow out of this thread. I genuinely am finding it pretty depressing. The slow, messy death of the labour party appears to have been reduced to two bald blokes fighting over a comb. But one of them is getting a bit lairy and is off home to take it out on the wife. 😥

It was a good performance. 😕

"But one of them is getting a bit fighty and is off home to take it out on the wife."

Ah come on Binners; your wife doesn't deserve that. 🙁

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate

It looks terrible obviously. But so does spending a year undermining and plotting against an elected leader with a massive incontestable mandate, and then attempting to depose him through underhand procedural means to deny the party the opportunity of electing him again. This thing goes both ways, but of course the media only presents one side of it. To quote a cliche, 'Live by the sword, die by the sword'.

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate, say a floating voter in a marginal constituency?

Do you think this rent-a-mob behavior, which is so similar to the tactics of the Militant Tendency int the 80's, is going to be a vote winner?

Neither the Momentum response nor the PLP cause - IGNORING the wishes of members- is a vote winner nor an edifying sight
I will ask again why are you only focusing on one side and not the other? Why is it ok for the PLP to ignore the party?

Given that the PLP were blatantly trying to gerrymander and engineer a new leadership election without Corbyn on the ballot, do you not think they and their supporters bear a large amount of responsibility? The NEC members should never have even been put in the position of having to vote on it, as it was clearly against democratic principles and common sense.

It doesn't excuse threats, intimidation and violent acts

That forces ordinary decent people out of politics and further widens the disengagement.arguably a contributor to the Brexit vote

And i think Corbyn should be on the ballot, and amusingly i have a vote as well,

It doesn't excuse threats, intimidation and violent acts

You think he is not getting threats from PLP view supporters?
As for violent acts have there been any ? there has just been threats hasn't there and I imagine at an equal level on all sides

Not defending it but nor am I being myopically one sided either.

Is there any concrete evidence the 'intimidation' ( 😆 ) was actually carried out by Momentum members/Corbyn supporters? Because it's just as feasible that it was right-wing agitators as it was Corbynites, let's face it.

"I think I'll bow out of this thread."

No come on Binners; it needs the comedy element to keep it going.

This really has become an existential battle now. The terms put on the membership for eligibility to vote by the NEC are shocking and the manner of their formulation worse. I think Corbyn will end up leading a aprty of the left with a liberal, centrist party coming from the PLP and the remainder of the lib dems and maybe even a few softer, pro europe tories. might make a coalition a possibility in 2020.

You think the PLP has not done this to corbyn?

Emails and calls from McDonnell don't count

Is there any concrete evidence the 'intimidation' ( ) was actually carried out by Momentum members/Corbyn supporters? Because it's just as feasible that it was right-wing agitators as it was Corbynites, let's face it.

Are you a journalist for the Morning Star?

Emails and calls from McDonnell don't count

At least Binners rants were amusing your just look like you are trying to live up to the later part of your user name

That forces ordinary decent people out of politics and further widens the disengagement.

As does ignoring the democratic choice of labour party members in favour of an elite who time and again have demonstrated that they hold their own personal career interests and those of their supporters above the wishes of party members and voters.

I think what's clear is that this fight, although utterly destructive to the labour party's electoral ambitions, needs to be seen through to it's conclusion. I don't know what that conclusion is, but it needs to happen before the rebuilding can occur. I note this morning that the green party are talking about a broad left electoral pact with a common goal of proportional representation. That to me would seem like a very good idea.

Some analysis by people who aren't drunk blokes in a pub:

in favour of an elite

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life? These people have been in the Labour party years and an in many cases worked from the ground up, after all they had to get their local party to select them to stand as an MP. Compare that to the membership which has plenty of Jonny come lately £3 types who have never had to work within the Labour party or contribute to it.

FFS this debate is shit its just folk adhering to their own biases and not bothering with facts or debate

At least Binners rants were amusing your just look like you are trying to live up to the later part of your user name

I thought it was humourous and potentially have some basis in reality 😉

McDonnell has too many skeletons in the cupboard to lead Labour so JC has to stay or the whole "project" collapses. Lisa Nandy the heir apparent is clearly not ready.

I think what's clear is that this fight, although utterly destructive to the labour party's electoral ambitions, needs to be seen through to it's conclusion. I don't know what that conclusion is, but it needs to happen before the rebuilding can occur. I note this morning that the green party are talking about a broad left electoral pact with a common goal of proportional representation. That to me would seem like a very good idea.

PR hurts labour, currently less votes gets them more seats the the conservatives

How many years in the wilderness do you expect? No wonder the PLP are fighting this

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life?

Are you serious?

These people have been in the Labour party years and an in many cases worked from the ground up, after all they had to get their local party to select them to stand as an MP.

Apart from the candidates who were parachuted in to constituencies by Blair and Brown straight from their favourite think tanks and PPE university courses. Funny also how most of these like the Milibands, Balls, Cooper, Burnham et al made it straight to the front bench without 'working their way up', and then wondered why the party's base support abandoned them for the likes of UKIP and elected Corbyn as leader with a massive majority.

PR hurts labour,

In it's current form as a 'big-tent' coalition between left and right, but in a scenario where they split, and in coalition with the greens, lib dems and SNP, it's a much better option.

"I thought it was humourous and potentially have some basis in reality"

Yeah, you know those people who laugh at their own jokes?

[img] [/img]

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/13/corbyn-critics-destroying-labour-party-members ]Gary Younge[/url]

Good piece in the guardian: "Corbyn's critics are hellbent on destroying the party they claim to love"

I think I'll bow out of this thread. I genuinely am finding it pretty depressing.

Have you not played with the posse before, binns?? 😉

Bloody biased media are hardly mentioning poor old Jezza today....

I've had my criticisms of Corbyn, but what about the electrifying way he's led the charge against May's joke new shadow cabinet. It's a morale boost in these dark days the way Corbyn's cut the ground from under ex-goth Hammond's unexpected post in HMT, drawing laughs from Ozzy the iron chancellor's precipitate defenestration. And the way he's questioned the erm wisdom of May's appointment of the Brexit top team of Fox, Davis and the beyond satire Johnson, yeah, they'll work well together to get the best deal...

Either that or he's just been quiet.

Meanwhile, in Angela Eagles own constituency:

I'd say she's pretty much secured her own deselection as parliamentary candidate at any future election there.

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life?

Angela Eagle, for instance? It appears that she was parachuted into her constituency in contravention of party procedure and against the wishes of the local membership. That was in 1992, and it would appear that the PLP has learnt nothing since.

Now we find out that having grudgingly accepted Corbyn onto the ballot, the NEC is busy gerrymandering to get someone else to win. What are they so afraid of? That the membership realises the candidates are useless?

johnx2 - Member
...Either that or he's just been quiet.

Why wouldn't he be?

St Theresa is doing his work for him.

Angela Eagle, for instance? It appears that she was parachuted into her constituency in contravention of party procedure and against the wishes of the local membership. That was in 1992, and it would appear that the PLP has learnt nothing since.

...into what until then had always been a Tory seat, which she won for Labour and which since then has turned into a safe Labour seat. Her decision to challenge Corbyn does seem likely to cost her this seat. I'd say she's showing courage in this probably doomed action, in trying to do the best thing for the country and the people she represents. But there'll be some momentumesque explanation that she's sacrificing her career for, erm, careerist reasons... Hey ho.

ohnx2 - Member
Either that or he's just been quiet.

johnx2 - Member
Her decision to challenge Corbyn does seem likely to cost her this seat. I'd say she's showing courage in this probably doomed action, in trying to do the best thing for the country and the people she represents. But there'll be some momentumesque explanation that she's sacrificing her career for, erm, careerist reasons... Hey ho.

If she doesn't believe she can win and is putting her self up as some sacrificial lamb, she's being destructive in the extreme.

nope. Priority is to get Corbyn out or we've Tories forever.

The thing is I'd not mind Corbyn not looking electable if he was being effective in opposition and holding the government to account. But at the moment he neither appears electable, and this is increasingly worsening as he fails to control the plp, nor is he a credible opposition leader as he's failing to put down government proposals or provide counter policies effectively (which may or may not be his fault but that's kind of irrelevant). If he can't do either what is his purpose?

And whilst I'm not sure Eagle will be much better she can't be any worse.

johnx2 - Member
nope. Priority is to get Corbyn out or we've Tories forever.

Aye, cause a new leader will solve labours woes.

Priority is to split the party and hurry the **** up about it.

being effective in opposition

I keep reading this and I"ve really no idea what it means. Seems to me most people think it's getting a few digs in at PMQs or appearing on Question Time and the 6pm news.

And whilst I'm not sure Eagle will be much better she can't be any worse.

So you're happy for the labour party to risk self-destruction for a wild gamble on someone who is at least as uninspiring as him, and judging by recent efforts, even more clumsy with the media and much thinner on policy and ideas. It would appear brexit logic has now been applied to choosing labour leaders.

...into what until then had always been a Tory seat, which she won for Labour and which since then has turned into a safe Labour seat.

Labour lost in 1987 by fewer than 300 votes, this was despite a national landslide for the Tories. Given the national swing to Labour in 1992, Eagle would've had to work extremely hard to lose it.

It means making it difficult to implement policies that you disagree with, that can be through being challenging in the house (which he's not managing), or pushing the alternative discussion in the media (which he's not managing) or pointing out the issues and coming up with a counter policy that is persuasive enough that you engage the opposition enough to change their vote (and at the moment he's barely communicating policy to members let alone anyone else).

Labour is self destructing anyway, retaining Corbyn isn't going to stop that. By his own supporters admission he can't get the media to successfully represent his views there is therefore very little to be gained other than a warm sense of moral superiority to be gained by remaining in that position.

I don't know why the angle is that Corbyn is unelectable.

The Blairite Red Tory methodology no longer works. It depends on perception control, and that works as long as you have control of the flow of information and opinion, ie enough grip of the MSM to ensure your message is getting pumped out.

But with the growth of social media, and it's no longer limited to the young or early adopters, then the message can no longer be exclusively controlled. Fact checking is now easy, so a politician who is claiming to support some policy but votes against it, is quickly found out.

It is the Blairites who are the dinosaurs here, because instead of recognising this and changing their game they are chucking a massive hissy fit and displaying contempt towards what they obviously regard as a dumb underclass, ie the ordinary party members.

That dumb underclass now has other sources of information and can spot gross lies and deceit much easier.

There's a good chance any loss of support at the right wing of the party will be more than made up from people finally feeling enfranchised if they believe the Party will actually live up to its basic principles, and certainly enough people are flocking to the Party to suggest that support in the next GE will be much stronger.

Blairite Red Tory methodology

anyone who doesn't support corbyn is a 'blairite'?