Jeremy Corbyn

jambalaya - Member

Like Insaid everything justifies a referendum in their book

No, what you said was "I imagined the SNP said something, and now it is real in my mind"

The MPs resigning from the Shadow Cabinet are presumably the ones that knew they didn't stand a chance of being in the Shadow Cabinet in 48 hours time, presumably?

His first act as leader was to go to the pub. Second, to attend a pro-refugee rally. Class.

Though he did get there by taxi. He's changed...

Though he did get there by taxi. He's changed...

"...I've got the foremans job at last"

Woohoo! It is done! 😈

Now the country can march on and let others start / create new opposition parties that's talk sense etc.

Labour should be wearing pure red now as the march of the communist begins ... 😆

Thankfully and finally, an opposition party with polar opposite views than the current samey same, me I'm the same.

I now sit back and look forward to some extremely awkward questions in the house and "call me daves" face.

Utterly brilliant.

People who have spent 20 years telling us we need nuclear weapons are now going to be telling us we must get rid.

Big job to take on at 66 with the hope that the earliest retirement is 75. Has he really thought it through?

Anyway good news for the UK whatever your political bias.

So to move out of opposition all you need to do is convince the middle ground that it's the best options 😉 I reckon 2nd in the next election could be the Lib Dems

Seems to confirm that you are resigned to being nothing more than an opposition party in the future

bikebouy - Member

Thankfully and finally, an opposition party with polar opposite views than the current [b]samey same, me I'm the same[/b].

Also the "look at me, look at me, I am shy" type of politics ...

I now sit back and look forward to some extremely awkward questions in the house and "call me daves" face.

Utterly brilliant.

The entertainment value has increased many folds now but let's see how a "modern" communist interacts with reality.

😛

what exactly are you expecting for the immediate future for the Labour party?

A leadership election within 12 months when he realizes he can't get the policies he wants past his parliamentary party.

outofbreath - Member

what exactly are you expecting for the immediate future for the Labour party?

A leadership election within 12 months when he realizes he can't get the policies he wants past his parliamentary arty.

I expect more internal culling (he should cull more) to move the party further towards a pure red environment ... Ya, I like! 😛

I think it's fantastic for England that Corbyn has been elected leader. I don't see it making much difference in Scotland. Labour has lost Scotland, it'll take a generation to get us back and Labour doesn't have a generation, we'll be independent in a decade.

bencooper - Member
... we'll be independent in a decade.

Woohoo! Does that mean Scotland will have to re-populate her land?

Labour has lost Scotland, it'll take a generation to get us back and Labour doesn't have a generation,

One generation? You are too optimistic ... I say at least 4 generations.

Woohoo! Does that mean Scotland will have to re-populate her land?

Worst chat-up line ever.

I'm watching Jez talk at the refugee demo.

No different to any other opposition politician. Lots of emotive and vague words and not a hint of how many refugees he would house in the UK if he were PM.

Is it any wonder the media spend so much time on personality?

I presume Ben is optimistic about the price of oil.

bencooper - Member

Woohoo! Does that mean Scotland will have to re-populate her land?

Worst chat-up line ever.

I know, I know ... 😆

I wish Scotland well and I don't mind going over to repopulate her land ...

internal culling (he should cull more) to move the party further towards a pure red environment ... Ya, I like!

I think that historical precedent means you have to refer to it as a 'purge' rather than 'cull'

not a hint of how many refugees he would house in the UK if he were PM.

He's been in the job 3 hours!
Do you honestly think any PM/Leader of the opposition or indeed cabinet/shadow minister doesn't have an office full of minions doing these calcualtions for them? IIRC Corbyn had a slightly smaller office and one or two fewer people to help him work this out than Cameron has had these last weeks. 😉

He's been in the job 3 hours!
Do you honestly think any PM/Leader of the opposition or indeed cabinet/shadow minister doesn't have an office full of minions doing these calcualtions for them? IIRC Corbyn had a slightly smaller office and one or two fewer people to help him work this out than Cameron has had these last weeks.

He must have worked it out because he knows 20,000 is wildly wrong.

ninfan - Member

internal culling (he should cull more) to move the party further towards a pure red environment ... Ya, I like!

I think that historical precedent means you have to refer to it as a 'purge' rather than 'cull'

Oppps! Arrgggghhh ... arrghhh ... new thing(word) to learn ... 😮

I thought "purge" tends to be associated with "diarrhea" while "culling" means getting rid of and associated with animals ... arrrghhh ...

Ok, purge it is. 😛

bencooper - Member

I think it's fantastic for England that Corbyn has been elected leader. I don't see it making much difference in Scotland. Labour has lost Scotland, it'll take a generation to get us back and Labour doesn't have a generation, we'll be independent in a decade.

I thought a generation for you was less than 5 years ben? If you mean labour has lost Scotland for a proper generation you are talking more pish.

He must have worked it out because he knows 20,000 is wildly
wrong.

Isn't it quite a lot easier to say something is way off the mark than to be sure what the right answer is?

to pluck a simpler example out of the air, I know for sure that 25p a litre is a wildly wrong price to charge for my new tubeless gunk business. Doesn't mean I know exactly what price I am going to charge yet. And then what if I name a 'ballpark' price before I have finshed my costings properly and its too high? (puts people off) or too low? (puts peoples backs up because I now want this much more for it to make it worth me selling.)

Assuming he can't come up with a number, not even a broad range, then it would be best not to open his mouth. If he really doesn't know he might well find there are factors he hasn't considered and 20k is too many.

Either way, he needs to talk about policy, not emotive vague crap.

[quote=athgray said]
I thought a generation for you was less than 5 years ben?

Chapeau Sir.

outofbreath - Member

Assuming he can't come up with a number, not even a broad range, then it would be best not to open his mouth. If he really doesn't know he might well find there are factors he hasn't considered and 20k is too many.

Either way, he needs to talk about policy, not emotive vague crap.

To show his humanity he should up the ante by saying 200k for the next 2 years then another 200k until the next election etc.

400k is a tiny drop in the ocean of desperate human misery worldwide.

We're taking 300k every 6 months from Europe so I imagine whatever number Corbyn is thinking would be way north of 2 million.

Oppps! Arrgggghhh ... arrghhh ... new thing(word) to learn ...

I thought "purge" tends to be associated with "diarrhea" while "culling" means getting rid of and associated with animals ... arrrghhh ...

Ok, purge it is.

Definitely more fitting

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/russia-1900-to-1939/the-purges-in-the-ussr/

@chewkw You do realise that Socialist?Communist? Don't fall into the same trap as the folk across the Atlantic.

Some 8 years ago I went to a small local meeting one evening to hear John Mcdonnell MP speak. Gordon Brown was about to be coronated Labour Leader without any sort of democratic process, or debate, just as Labour's right-wing elite had always intended.

John Mcdonnell had been desperately trying to secure sufficient nominations to stand against Gordon Brown. He had always known of course that he stood little chance of securing sufficient nominations and no chance at all of winning the Leadership election.

But he spoke of the need to create the conditions for a political debate in which the voice of the Left could be heard, and he also spoke extensively about "winning back" the Party.

Now I like John Mcdonnell, I have enormous respect for him, unlike JC who I consider to be a left-wing social democrat imo John Mcdonnell is a genuine socialist, politically as left-wing as myself, and I was impressed by his critique of Labour.

But after he had finished speaking he sat down near me and as I looked at him I thought, "you poor deluded fool, you stand no chance at all of securing sufficient nominations - the system is designed to stop people like you, even if you do there will be no political debate - the media and your opponents will make sure of that, you will just be humiliatingly defeated, and above all you stand no chance whatsoever of ever winning back the Labour Party.

Today the Labour Party has been won back. Never imo have I ever been so comprehensively wrong on a political point.

Although in my defence what has happened was a fluke caused by Labour's right-wing elite momentarily dropping their guard in a few crucial minutes.

In their arrogance and smug confidence of their unassailable grip on the Party, also helped substantially by their complete disconnection with ordinary party members, Labour's right-wing parliamentary elite thought allowing a token left-winger to participate in the leadership election would add legitimacy to the process and humiliate the Left thereby consolidating their power.

IMO today doesn't mark the day that Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party but the day that the anti-democratic right-wing elite lost control of the Labour Party, a day which I genuinely thought could never and would never come.

I am gobsmacked.

Spending £10bn on grants:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jul/15/jeremy-corbyn-announces-10bn-plan-to-scrap-university-tuition-fees

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jul/15/jeremy-corbyn-announces-10bn-plan-to-scrap-university-tuition-fees

[i]Wednesday 15 July 2015 19.42 BST[/i]

Have you only discovered JC's priorities this afternoon outofbreath ? It's received huge media coverage in the last couple of months.

BTW this "hard-left" politician thought it was a vote winner :

[img] [/img]

And he was probably right.....his party did very well electorally when they backed the policy, not so well when they abandoned it.

According to the BBC 35 MPs nominated him. 14 of them voted for him.

Looks like they'll get the debate they were hoping for. 😀

According to the BBC 35 MPs nominated him. 14 of them voted for him

I'm guessing that you have completely missed one of the main reasons why Jeremy Corbyn has done so extraordinarily well in this leadership election.

Probably at no time since the introduction of universal suffrage have politicians been held in such low esteem by the British public as they are today.

It is precisely because he appeared so different and so much at odds with the Westminster political elite that he appealed to so many. The more they lined up to denounce him the greater Corbyn's credibility. Tony Blair helped enormously in that respect.

BTW this "hard-left" politician thought it was a vote winner :

Yep, and then in Government he couldn't find any cash to pay for it. When popularism meets reality there's only one winner. The electorate are well aware of that.

As an aside I note that Corbyn got 49.58% of the members' vote if you discount the registered and affiliated supporters. I haven't seen published anywhere a breakdown of what would have happened with 2nd and 3rd preference votes if it had just been a member only vote. Kendall would have been first out and you would imagine he wouldn't have got a single one of her recast votes. The other two were neck and neck. You would imagine he would have got the thousand odd recast 2nd preference votes out of the 60 something thousand available he would have needed for a majority when Burnham or Cooper were knocked out (depending on which was 2nd by the time Kendall's votes were reallocated).

It's a small point but I think having got enough support that he would have won the vote without registered supporters or union members was really important for his credibility. The debate about vote rigging is now an irrelevance.

introduction of universal suffrage have politicians been held in such low esteem by the British public as they are today.
It is precisely because he appeared so different and so much at odds with the Westminster political elite that he appealed to so many. The more they lined up to denounce him the greater Corbyn's credibility. Tony Blair helped enormously in that respect.

So as long as every election winner since the early 90's has gauged what the electorate want incorrectly, he's a shoe in.

What he said looks nothing like what you said

When popularism meets reality there's only one winner. The electorate are well aware of that.

The electorate are well aware of that.

Erm, the electorate weren't very forgiving........the LibDems were completely hammered at the hands of the electorate.

.

When popularism meets reality ....

So Corbyn is a populist now ?

Well that's a big change! I thought the biggest criticism of all was that Corbyn was a certain vote loser for Labour as his policies wouldn't be popular with the electorate.

So what is it?........there's a huge difference with being a populist and being a certain vote loser, you can't be both.

I thought a generation for you was less than 5 years ben?

Nope, I think a generation is around 30 years, isn't it?

I know what you're referring to, and I never signed up to the idea that Indyref1 was a once-in-a-generation thing. And polling shows a majority of Scots agree with me.

I presume Ben is optimistic about the price of oil.

I'd much prefer it if oil stopped flowing tomorrow. Oil isn't vital for Scotland's economy, it's a useful bonus, but one I think we should do without for environmental reasons. But I accept that that's not going to happen.

Anyway, Corbyn isn't a fan of giving any more powers to Scotland, so I can't see him winning over the majority of Scots who now want independence, never mind the large majority who do want more powers.

It's a small point but I think having got enough support he would have won the vote without registered supporters or union members was really important for his credibility. The debate about vote rigging is now an irrelevance.

Yeah, I'm pleased about that. With UK parties finally having genuinely different policies for the first time in decades it would be a real shame if it was overshadowed by squabbles about legitimacy.

Popularism: Yep. He's promising the moon on a stick. Labour members believe his ludicrous plan to pay for it. The electorate won't.

In the same way the Liberal Party promised the moon on a stick, got in power and couldn't find any cash to pay for it.

That's my take on it.

Spending £10bn on grants:

Yep, and then in Government he couldn't find any cash to pay for it.

I imagine if he doesn't go for the trident update he could easily rustle up the readies about a 100 billion of them

bencooper - Member

Anyway, Corbyn isn't a fan of giving any more powers to Scotland, so I can't see him winning over the majority of Scots who now want independence, never mind the large majority who do want more powers.

Not that simple. For a lot of us, support for independence was broadly a vote against the direction the UK was going. Corbyn, possibly, changes that greatly.

I voted yes against a background of a choice between a **** and a **** in charge of 2 parties I couldn't support. If Corbyn proves halfway electable- even if he's in the running- that changes. It brings back hope for a better UK, essentially.

That is true, and it all comes down to whether Corbyn is actually electable in England. Depends on whether this is a sign that England is going to start moving leftwards again, or whether it's a protest thing that won't halt the generally rightwards drift of English politics.