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So no-one can have an original idea any more?
We can if we want.
How is anyone meant to try anything new?
Convince voters first.
It's not new. FDR spent more than had ever been thought possible on infrastructure back in the 1930s...
In which case wouldn't all the government economists in the world be aware of it and use it when they deemed appropriate?
[quote=outofbreath ]
Convince voters first.
i think labour are letting the current incumbents do that for them...
In which case wouldn't all the government economists in the world be aware of it and use it when they deemed appropriate?
How do you think money is created?
Convince voters first.
Opinion polls suggest they have. Which is why the angry tories are quite scared.
i think labour are letting the current incumbents do that for them...
True, but quite a depressing fact.
Opinion polls suggest they have. Which is why the angry tories are quite scared.
Or will angry tories be delighted to hand over and let Labour take the [s]credit[/s]blame for the events that will happen in the next couple of years.
In which case wouldn't all the government economists in the world be aware of it and use it when they deemed appropriate?
Economists. Hmmm. Not a great track record of predicting the future I'm afraid 🙁 Nor even, as our Greek friend observes, a very good record of understanding the past 🙂
so OOB are you saying whatever happens the tories have won? Seems logical there, call an early election, propose bad police end a majority - all a cunning stunt to ease out of the blame for brexit?
Economists. Hmmm. Not a great track record of predicting the future I'm afraid
I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong, because these people are the same ones who got consistently wrong.
all a cunning stunt to ease out of the blame for brexit?
Spoonerism?
so OOB are you saying whatever happens the tories have won?
Nope, I'm saying:
Or will angry tories be delighted to hand over and let Labour take the [s]credit[/s]blame for the events that will happen in the next couple of years.
In which case wouldn't all the government economists in the world be aware of it and use it when they deemed appropriate?
Maybe they couldn't convince voters?
Maybe voters don't know a good idea if they see it? (see Brexit)
Maybe politicians are Tory and don't want governments to spend money?
In which case wouldn't all the government economists in the world be aware of it and use it when they deemed appropriate?
Maybe they couldn't convince voters?
Maybe voters don't know a good idea if they see it? (see Brexit)
Maybe politicians are Tory and don't want governments to spend money?
Shame Emily Thornberry forgot to mention all of that. 🙁
TurnerGuy - MemberCorbyn walked past empty, unreserved seats, didn't he? It was just a photo op as he courts publicity
[URL= http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/traingate-cctv-virgin-trains-jeremy-corbyn_uk_59a00509e4b0821444c29596 ]Maybe not[/url]
Which is why the angry tories are quite scared.
So angry now instead of nasty ? IME lefties get a lot more angry than the tories.
IME lefties get a lot more angry than the tories.
You only say that because you haven't been on the wrong end of one of hurty's special sneers 🙂
Maybe not
but he still failed to buy seat reservations though, didn't he?
If I am lucky I get to sit on the floor during the week whilst commuting, certainly not with as much space as he has there.
Those services get packed but it's not really the privatised rail services fault, is it - if the infrastructure was there they would run more services - that's the responsibility of a public body already.
Those services get packed but it's not really the privatised rail services fault, is it - if the infrastructure was there they would run more services - that's the responsibility of a public body already.
Quite right. Railtrack did an excellent job managing the infrastructure.
if the infrastructure was there they would run more services - that's the responsibility of a public body already.
?
Network rail managed the infrastructure
Tories quietly privatised it 3 years ago after it racked up loads of debt and had been run into the ground by the private sector
Much easier to cream off subsidies for the rail providers than the infrastructure management
Those services get packed but it's not really the privatised rail services fault, is it - if the infrastructure was there they would run more services - that's the responsibility of a public body already.
I'm also not sure everyone is convinced by the argument that Chris Grayling under the watchful eye of Teresa May has a remarkable talent for making train services great.
Well he certainly did a good job on prisons 😳
You only say that because you haven't been on the wrong end of one of hurty's special sneers
He sneers.... Is this a tag word that signals members to the call? 😉
When corbyn comes to power (shudders) it will finally put his policies to he’d for ever either (1) most likely they will not he implemented - but the manifesto was so vacuous that this would not be difficult or (2) the effects would speak for themselves.
Divvying up a smaller pie badly is not a recipe for success.
So which ideas don't you like specifically, thm? (genuine question not baiting)
So has anyone named a specific policy of corbyns yet? One from the manifesto I linked to?
Am I too late to call Chris Failing Grayling a ****?
members
Yep! The whole posse!! Behind you!!! Boo!!!!
Documentary on tonight:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09gtywy/labour-the-summer-that-changed-everything
Watched it. Really interesting to see the election and the aftermath from the inside. Quite sad watching Steven Kinnock near the end making the case that Momentum need him, and he needs Momentum. Then the interviewer asked if Momentum saw it that way...
In a fit of enthusiasm I watched John MacDonnall on Andrew Marr. Starts at 19:00:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09glv4q/the-andrew-marr-show-19112017
Have to agree Kinnock came across a right plonker at the end!
[quote=molgrips ]So which ideas don't you like specifically, thm? (genuine question not baiting)
all the ones that are not right wing free market tory ones DUH
Jezzer seems to be very quiet of late, one could be forgiven for thinking he's riding an easy wave and watching what happens.
So an allegation that some / none of corbyns policies have ever been tried anywhere but when asked for specific policies so we can have a proper discussion a total refusal to say which ones.
I think we can draw conclusions from the silence
So an allegation that some / none of corbyns policies have ever been tried anywhere but when asked for specific policies so we can have a proper discussion a total refusal to say which ones.
Ok, the policy I choose is Brexit.
Where's it been tried and been successful? Not with an economically small and simple country but with a substantial and complex economy.
Over to you.
Ok, the policy I choose is Brexit.
Brexit is not a policy. Try again.
TJ I would agree (partially) that its not Labour’s publically stated intention to run a huge budget deficit ... but they will. Their tax raising measures will bring in much less money than budgeted, their spending plans will cost much more. Their “investment” will have to be properly counted as debt and it won’t bring the economic boost they claim.
Policies (I say policies as some of this Corbyn just made up on the spot with no idea of the cost)
Renationalisation (including attempting to significantly under compensate shareholders, eg your pension fund - thats almost cwetainly illegal and would be challenged in the courts)
£500bn into a government bank (£250bn of that will be borrowed from private sector but will require a govt guaranty)
Significant increases in public sector wages
Abolishing student loans and “sorting” existing student debt
Significant increases in welfare payments
All of this to be delivered and much more by a Marxist Chancellor well aware he needs to prepare for a run on the £ and capital flight
BTW on Brexit - no freedom of movement, commitment to honour referendum leave the EU (both in manifesto) plus leaving the customs union and THE single market (Labour voted last night to oppose an EU withdrawl bill amendment to stay in the customs union)
ambalaya - Member
TJ I would agree (partially) that its not Labour’s publically stated intention to run a huge budget deficit ... but
Tories are going to spend billions on brexit that will bugger the economy...
Marxist
Yawn. Change the record, will ya?
TJ I would agree (partially) that its not Labour’s publically stated intention to run a huge budget deficit ... but they will.
Your opinion Vs a carefully costed piece of work from Labour
Jamba how are the tories getting on with their promise to eliminate the deficit and reduce national debt? I presume they'll start doing this before brexit happens?
Here's a clue...
[img] 
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Just watched last night's doc.
Thought it was odd that he didn't follow any aspect of Momentum until after the election.
I wasn't aware of the stuff surrounding Sarah Champion immediately after the election. I'll look it up further.
Quite a lot to take in. Lucy Powell looked like she might have been receptive to a collaboration but was immediately squeezed out (or at least that's how it was portrayed) due to her past allegiances.
Kinnock and Powell chose their side, and they lost. That’s how it works. Now they want to be respected?
That scene where Kinnock was being told off by his wife was hilarious. He looked like Hugh Abbott in the thick of it. The hubris of these people is shocking. Leadership material my arse.
Thought it was odd that he didn't follow any aspect of Momentum until after the election.
They covered angry Momentum Volunteers in Wales before the election, but yeah, there wasn't much.
I wasn't aware of the stuff surrounding Sarah Champion immediately after the election. I'll look it up further.
I remember hearing her comments on the Radio and thinking she was crazy to say it and I thought she was right to resign. On last night's show she totally justified her decision AFAIC. I hadn't heard about the Sun article, but the Sun readership is exactly the readership Labour need to address. There's no votes in preaching to the converted.
Jamba how are the tories getting on with their promise to eliminate the deficit and reduce national debt? I presume they'll start doing this before brexit happens?
Here's a clue...
Yeah, Tories are deffo borrowing way too much. So if Corbynomics is right GDP should be rapidly increasing fueled by all the spending and thus 'reducing' borrowing. Is it?
Kinnock and Powell chose their side, and they lost.
To be fair they're well aware of that, they don't dispute it. That's why the PLP made such desperate attempts to unseat Corbyn.