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You use the word Marxist as though it is bad.
100 million dead will do that. I guess if they’d just killed a few million more it might have worked.
Cite.
Jamba and THM illustrate quite nicely and not a little ironically just why labour are so popular. The financial elite and their political brethren continue to lecture everyone else about what is possible and/or acceptable. Trouble is people no longer believe or trust them for the simple reason that when it suits them, like in the banking crisis, the rules can be easily discarded and replaced with others. If innovative and unorthodox solutions can be found to rescue the banks, then the same is true to rescue public services, protect jobs and pay people properly.
100 million dead will do that.
Marxism hasn't killed a single person, how can a theory kill anyone.
Dash indeed - people are vulnerable to BS whether a it's Trump, McD, the Sctoosh GNats, the Brexshiteers etc
As Marr pointed out, despite the fact that the Tories are in deep disarray and the economy is slowing, the GB public are still just aware enough to understand that the JMcD doesn pt fully understand what he is proposing and hence Labour are not gaining in the polls in the way you would expect.
Still at least they will give us a jobs first Brexshit, which will be a relief to many.
Marxism hasn't killed a single person, how can a theory kill anyone.
😆
I guess your fine with nazis too then. Obviously they killed a lot less and you can’t hold an ideology responsible after all.
I guess your fine with nazis too then. Obviously they killed a lot less and you can’t hold an ideology responsible after all.
You’re aware of the difference between ideologies and theories, yes?
And the difference between intelligent debate and straw-manning, yes?
Or perhaps you’re not.
The general populus dont GAS about economics as much as you do. It surprises me how much you think everyone is like you and thinks like you - no idea why as the tories could never win could they 😉the GB public are still just aware enough to understand that the JMcD doesn pt fully understand what he is proposing and hence Labour are not gaining in the polls in the way you would expect.
I dont think the general public think like me either
It might be wiser if we discussed totalitarian regimes and Nazis have to be like that marxist/communist dont, but they very often were
PS capitalism kills milions every year via poverty ,starvation and disease [ often easily preventable]- the money is there its just not distributed fairly/equitably.
So tell us the STW collective.
Name one country where Corbyn’s policies have been successful ? One country, anywhere ? You can decide for whom they have been successful, although the QT questioner clearly meant for “the country as a whole”
The same stupid question twice in one week?
So you can’t name one either.
Next STWer please
Jamba you need to both name the policies and define the parameters of success before anyone will bite. Here's a clue though, there are plenty of countries with efficient state owned transport systems, health and social services and utilities. Also plenty of countries that have a more progressive tax systems and infustrial policies which are investment driven instead of maximising shareholder returns. And do we really need to mention the countries with state-funded further and higher education systems? Also let’s not forget countries with strict environmental regulations, generous benefits and social housing programmes. Are you really going to claim that not a single country has achieved any of this?
Which policies? Plenty of countries have nationalised industries, free higher education, social security and no nuclear weapons.
And then take a look at the good old us of a. It never got caught up in that silly game of providing health care or good free education. It's a mess, Australia is heading down the private public avenue and guess what it costs more for a worse service.
If the UK is at a turning point where people will accept taxes in exchange for services then it's time to take it. If it goes much further it will be too late. In 20 years we have gone from free universities to fees of up to 9k and people think it's the norm.
The majority of the true blue Tories here will not see the slightest impact of cuts in their bubbles, to them it's not an issue. They will be the ones asked to pay more so the selfish gene comes into play.
Lets try Sweden. Or maybe the Netherlands?
@Jamba Google top ten happiest countries and you'll see the countries your looking for.
Corbyn’s policies. He is defining them not me. That was the QT question.
Do Sweden and Holland have the policies suggested by Corbyn and John the Marxist McDonnell, do they run huge budget deficits ? Are they nationalising industries ? VAT on food, Holland 6%, Sweden 12% BTW
Corbyn and McDonnell would make the £90bn pa run up by Gordon Brown look positively frugal. McDonnell would be Chancellor but won’t admit Government bonds (ie borrowing) is debt and says all (his) investments will only go up. To give him his credit in a parallel universe like that maybe his policies will work out just fine
How about a list of 3 or 4 policies and a list of 3 or 4 countries.
Failing that can we just make up names for the current government...
McDonnell would make the £90bn pa run up by Gordon Brown look positively frugal
as bad as what the tories have run up? what is it now excatly and when exactly did they say they would balance the budget by originally ? is it four times now they have moved the date or five?
Do Sweden and Holland have the policies suggested by Corbyn and John the Marxist McDonnell,
Yes. Infact probably further left in many ways. they don't have to take back to public ownership key industries never having given away public assets
All the rest of what you say is your interpretation of his policies. Its not a Corbyn policy to run up a 90 gazillion debt - thats the tory misinterpretation of his policies
It really was the type of question that would make a right wing idiot tumescent.
and as if by magic ...
Corbyn’s policies. He is defining them not me. That was the QT question.
Just to be clear - you're criticising JMcD for being out of touch on the day when Theresa the Christian(*)'s chancellor said there were no unemployed? Right - it all makes sense now ....
(*Millions dead, and still counting)
On an entirely different subject - Jezza got a lot of stick for suggesting that he'd been unable to get a seat on a Virgin train. I had to stand for 3 1/2 hours yesterday, from Darlington to KX. Not even room to sit on the floor. I wonder if Richard Branson will be releasing the CCTV footage?
Did you just walk by all the apparently empty seats first though?
Yes.
And then the train manager escorted me to a comfy chair.
Except she didn't as she was barricaded in her cubby hole unable to move and had nothing to do except make announcements about WiFi failure, credit card system failure, diversion of train via Lincoln, unscheduled stops at various beauty spots, all received with laughter and cheers in the sort of 40's spirit that I assume will become everyday life post-Brexit.
If you weren't so unpatriotic I expect you would have reserved a seat. Though I can't blame you for wanting to be in a hurry to leave Darlo.
Name one country where Corbyn’s policies have been successful ?
Nationalised industry - Norway
Nationalised rail - take your pick from countries with reputations for decent rail - France, Germany, Switzerland...
Cycle infrastructure - Netherlands
Seriously Jam, this is poor. Why don't you pick a specific policy you don't think will work and we'll talk about that.
Corbyn’s policies. He is defining them not me. That was the QT question.
Like I said, name us some policies and we'll come back to you with countries where they've worked. It would appear that the only policy you care about is reducing national debt. How are the tories getting on with that?
Like I said, name us some policies and we'll come back to you with countries where they've worked.
I'm pretty sure the questioner in the original youtube vid was asking for examples of countries where governments had borrowed to invest, and this had grown the economy and therefore reduced national debt.
That's the bit that makes most people a bit skeptical.
Most people's understanding of Corbynomics is that it's Keynesian Stimulus on steroids: Borrow money, have loads of good stuff, debt reduces.
Trump said he was going to do exactly that. Did he?
We discussed this in this thread in the spring, way higher up the thread. Nobody could name anywhere, then. Nobody could explain why, if it's that easy, every nation isn't doing it. Are Treasury civil servant Economists throughout Europe and the world really so dumb they have a lesser understanding of Keynes than mountain bikers?
On an entirely different subject - Jezza got a lot of stick for suggesting that he'd been unable to get a seat on a Virgin train. I had to stand for 3 1/2 hours yesterday, from Darlington to KX. Not even room to sit on the floor. I wonder if Richard Branson will be releasing the CCTV footage?
Corbyn walked past empty, unreserved seats, didn't he? It was just a photo op as he courts publicity.
3 1/2 hours, thats nothing - I've done over 5 hours on those virgin trains standing, and not even able to stand upright as I was near the door and those cariages have a funny shape.
And I had a very small folding stoool in my rucksack, but not enough room to put it up.
It was stuffed with students though at either the start or end of term.
And I also had bad piriformis syndrome at the time, but luckily was using one of these, which are therefore fully recommended :
[img] 
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Most people's understanding of Corbynomics is that it's Keynesian Stimulus on steroids: Borrow money, have loads of good stuff, debt reduces.
How do you think money is created?
I'm pretty sure the questioner in the original youtube vid was asking for examples of countries where governments had borrowed to invest, and this had grown the economy and therefore reduced national debt.
[url= https://www.economist.com/news/21719753-socialists-say-their-keynesian-policies-are-working-others-fret-about-portugals ]Portugal?[/url]
Portugal?
Seemingly not:
The Socialists say their Keynesian policies are working; others fret about Portugal’s debts
How do you think money is created?
It's not what I think it's what the world's government economists think. My economic background is one Economics A Level. I don't often get calls from the French treasury asking how to painlessly grow their economy!
Nationalised industry - Norway
It's not so simple, Norway's government might hold a share in companies but they aren't nationalised in the traditional sense.
That's the bit that makes most people a bit skeptical.
They're only sceptical because idiots in the tory party deliberately mislead them by likening national finances to having a credit card. Thing is the general population couldn't GAS about economic theory, but what they do recognise is that when money is needed to fight wars, bailout banks, bribe Northern Ireland etc then it's there without barely a blink as to where it's going to come from. So it's hardly surprising is it that the public and politicians like Corbyn raise an eyebrow when the gods of finance tell them that it's just too expensive, and too difficult, and irresponsible.
dragon - Member
Nationalised industry - Norway
It's not so simple, Norway's government might hold a share in companies but they aren't nationalised in the traditional sense.
[img] 
[/img]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_enterprises_of_Norway#Wholly_owned
They're only sceptical because idiots in the tory party deliberately mislead them
Which is why it's worth asking the Labour Party for some examples of places it's worked.
It's not what I think it's what the world's government economists think. My economic background is one Economics A Level. I don't often get calls from the French treasury asking how to painlessly grow their economy!
How do you think money is created?
And I also had bad piriformis syndrome at the time, but luckily was using one of these, which are therefore fully recommended
I'll certainly pack one of those [heat wraps] when I next travel on Virgin trains. It will come in doubly handy as Hell will also have frozen over.
Which is why it's worth asking the Labour Party for some examples of places it's worked.
Pretty much everywhere. That's why the state invests in stuff like schools 'n such. (Having a state investment bank doesn't imply just taking taxpayers' money and spunking it on dodgy deals flogged by "financial experts".)
I used to buy a Parmo and use that as a heat-pad on my long journeys south.
Pretty much everywhere.
Bit vague. The QT audience member was only asking for one one country.
Which is why it's worth asking the Labour Party for some examples of places it's worked.
So no-one can have an original idea any more? How is anyone meant to try anything new?
Give us a policy that youwant to discuss and we can demonstrate where it works well. Given that the last labour manifesto was mainstream european social democratic policies this would be very easy to do
so which policy do yo want to discuss. Actual policy not tory scaremongering
Here is a link to the manifesto
So no-one can have an original idea any more? How is anyone meant to try anything new?
It's not new. As DrJ notes, all countries invest state money. The question is how much, what are the benefits, and what are the problems. Right wingers seem to be very fond of state spending on the military, for example. FDR spent more than had ever been thought possible on infrastructure back in the 1930s...
But I ask again, how do people think money is created?