Jeremy Corbyn

So no link to JC and Labour Party then?

Until DD says specifically what I got wrong I'm standing by what I said.

Well it was 7:15 and I was chasing about to get out of the house so I might have misheard. Specifically what did I get wrong?

It starts at around 1.10 into the link and finishes around 1.15. Why don't you have a listen yourself? This kind of thing helps when you've decided you've already worked out what he's going to say based on your own preconceptions, and then post it on the internet without listening properly. So if you expect me to help you out on that, sorry, but I've given you the interview time, go and have a listen yourself.

jambalaya - Member
Conservatives 318
Labour 266

Only one winner there between these two parties

& 65.14 million losers!

lets be honest the rest of parliament hates the tories and what theyve done to the country.....

which is why they are having to deal with the DUP bigots - who hate gays, womens rights, science etc etc etc

McDonnell's words where clearly and deliberately chosen to subvert democracy which is absolutely "par for the course" with him and the hard left

Someone else who hasn't listened either I'm guessing.

Conservatives 318
Labour 266

Not quite the 150 seat majority you predicted, eh jamba?

Not quite the 150 seat majority you predicted, eh jamba?

Further revised to 75-100 lets not forget.

So nowhere near that either. 😀

So if you expect me to help you out on that, sorry

I didn't expect you to state what I'd got wrong, I expected you to evade doing so. Which you have.

Here's the link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tvjf6

About 1hr13.

McDonnell's words where clearly and deliberately chosen to subvert democracy which is absolutely "par for the course" with him and the hard left

Because the right are above doing such things....

Righty fing ho!
😆

Because the right are above doing such things....

I'm not sure that makes it a good idea.

Organised by Movement for Justice By [b]Any Means Necessary[/b] (MFJ), the Day of [b]Rage[/b] will see protesters march on Downing Street at around 1pm calling on people to "[b]bring down the Government[/b]".

Any Means = illegal
Rage = violence
Bring down the government = anti-democratic

All this endorsed and encouraged my McDonnell

I didn't expect you to state what I'd got wrong, I expected you to evade doing so. Which you have.

You've already admitted you weren't really listening. Go back and have a proper listen instead of "chasing around the house" and then posting what you wanted to hear on the internet.

And now you're expecting me to help you out?

Why don't you want to have a listen to it?

I'm not sure that makes it a good idea.

agreed, but mcdonnel was hardly subverting democracy

he made some very good points

May specifically asked for a mandate for her hard brexit, she thought she was getting a coronation, she got a pillorying!

They campaigned on a manifesto they are now junking

The tories are just getting that austerity is the problem here, scapegoating the EU for falling living standards was always only going to work for so long.

They have no majority, no coalition and no leader

if the Tories respected democracy theyd go back to the electorate

Any Means = illegal
Rage = violence

All this endorsed and encouraged my McDonnell

Yep, you didn't listen then. Interview starts at 1.10 and finishes around 1.15 in the link. If you can find an endorsement of violence or any illegality by McDonnell, I'll be impressed.

I really can't understand why we have to do this when a quick 5 minute listen to the interview would sort it out. Why do you feel the desperate need to misrepresent this kind of stuff all the time?

Are you still suffering after the shattered dreams of a 150 seat majority?

You've already admitted you weren't really listening.

I've just listened again and my recollection turns out to be spot on, which is why you can't state which bit I got wrong.

However I *did* miss the bits about him calling for 'insurrection' and praising the rioters who he said "kicked the **** out of Millbank" first time around so it *was* worth a second listen.

Calling something a "Day of Rage" doesn't mean you expect people to go round being violent, just as calling something "Feed the World" doesn't mean you go round with a microwaved ready meal for the entire population of the planet; it's a figure of speech.

Of course you actually knew that, and it's just more stupid, stupid trolling - very boring, but ultimately corrosive for democracy.

All this endorsed and encouraged my McDonnell

for someone who so openly backed a campaign that repeatedly used bigotry, xenophobia and lies you are looking a bit silly ,
even your hero farage actually said hed take up arms if he didnt get his brexit !

I'm glad you've had a listen outofbreath. But I'm not surprised you still can't see where you misrepresented him. And you're still doing it.

But I'm not surprised you still can't see where you misrepresented him.

Neither you nor I can see where I misrepresented him!

If you could you would quote it.

A bit later on in the same R4 programme you'll hear the Chief Whip (IIRC) saying that he'd like to throw members off the roof of the building. Shall we also criticise him for inciting violence?

All this endorsed and encouraged my McDonnell

Getting more & more desperate aren't you..

You'll lie about anything if it'll further your own agenda - the words "snakes belly" spring to mind..

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/brexiter-to-claim-he-was-just-kidding-20170621129978 ]Jamby's next Gambit[/url]

if the Tories respected democracy theyd go back to the electorate

Whether they respect democracy or not they will be going back to the electorate, the situation dictates that.

All that's under debate is whether we incite rage in the meantime. Doesn't Manchester & Finsbury suggest that encouraging anger is unhelpful?

[quote=sobriety ]Jamby's next Gambit

I believe that is already termed the 'Edinburgh defence' in honour of TJ.

to subvert democracy which is absolutely "par for the course" with him and the hard left

Well I had a listen and it did leave me uncomfortable. It started well, the right balance of acceptance combined with reasonable suggestions of how they'll oppose the government. But his interview with the Morning Star and repeatedly stating his view that the government was undemocratic and illegitimate has to be unwise, especially before a protest labelled "day of rage".
I'd actually prefer a Labour government rather than the mess we have now. But how would labour forming a government, not being the largest party be any more legitimate or democratic ?

I'd actually prefer a Labour government rather than the mess we have now. But how would labour forming a government, not being the largest party be any more legitimate or democratic ?

agreed

youd have to go back to the polls till you get a clear majority, even then Brexit being the business of the day and so divisive things would still be difficult

if only people had listened to project fear

repeatedly stating his view that the government was undemocratic and illegitimate has to be unwise, especially before a protest labelled "day of rage".

I see. And how about the parts where he repeatedly said that protests should be peaceful, and cited the example of Ghandi?

I see. And how about the parts where he repeatedly said that protests should be peaceful, and cited the example of Ghandi?

Obviously he's going to say that, no main stream politician would say anything else. And despite Ghandi's message Indian independence and partition cost 100,000's of lives. When people are angry they'll look between the lines and see the message the want to see.

Obviously he's going to say that, no main stream politician would say anything else. And despite Ghandi's message Indian independence and partition cost 100,000's of lives. When people are angry they'll look between the lines and see the message the want to see.

I see. And how about the parts where he repeatedly said that protests should be peaceful, and cited the example of Ghandi?

That was the inteviewers point: They go to the IRA and tell them bombing is the best way to influence government, they go to their core voters and tell them to get angry and out on the street and call for insurrection to change the government. Then they go on R4 saying it's good to be peaceful.

The interviewer was suggesting they change the message according to the audience.

JM didn't really address that point - or I thought he didn't.

The interview was basically the usual Robinson party political broadcast

They go to the IRA and tell them bombing is the best way to influence government

They go to the IRA and tell them bombing is the best way to influence government

You've lost it.

Source?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/18/john-mcdonnell-apologises-for-ira-comment-labour

"It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table.”

They go to the IRA and tell them bombing is the best way to influence government

When people [s]are angry[/s] hate lefties they'll look between the lines and see the message the want to see.

"It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA. Because of the bravery of the IRA and people like Bobby Sands, we now have a peace process.”

Here's the bit you missed.

“In 2003 we were trying to impress upon all sides that we should sign the peace process, the Good Friday agreement. At one point in time it looked as though we were going to lose the peace process. There was a potential for the republican movement to split, there were many that were arguing they would continue what they described as the armed struggle.

“I went out and argued for the peace process and I made this speech to a group of republicans because one of the problems we had is that if there was a feeling that they were defeated or humiliated – and this was on both sides – they would not stand down. So I made this speech and I urged them to put their weapons away and to participate in the peace process. It was a difficult time.

“I think my choice of words was wrong. I accept that. I should not have said the issue about the honouring. I actually said afterwards that there is no cause that justifies the loss of life in this way. What I tried to do for both sides is to give them a way out with some form of dignity otherwise they wouldn’t lay their arms down.

“I accept it was a mistake to use those words. But if it contributed towards saving one life or preventing someone else being maimed it was worth doing because we did hold on to the peace process. There was a real risk of the republican movement splitting and some of them continuing with the armed process.”

but oob you said

They go to the IRA and tell them bombing is the best way to influence government

which is a [b]lie[/b]

he was talking after the GFA about what happened during the troubles, not telling them to do it b4hand

I think youve been reading the sun/mail/telegraph too much and are being sucked in by their lies

Here's the bit you missed.

Lets assume that's true. Would that not further confirm the interviewer's point? They just say whatever the audience needs to hear to acheive their objective?

Or to put it another way: "That was the inteviewers point: They go to the IRA and tell them bombing is the best way to influence government, they go to their core voters and tell them to get angry and out on the street and call for insurrection to change the government. Then they go on R4 saying it's good to be peaceful."

Which is exactly what I said.

the "righties" are proper cracking up! 😆

They go to the IRA and tell them bombing is the best way to influence government

so he instructed the IRA to do their bombing campaign??

source?

I think you may have been out in the sun too much

I think I may pop along to this protest after work now, youve made up my mind oob, congrats

I think I may pop along to this protest after work now, youve made up my mind oob, congrats

I'll hide in Waterstones, I bet you won't be going in there.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting

I'll hide in Waterstones, I bet you won't be going in there.

funnily enough I wasnt planning on any violence, despite sinister Mcdonnells subversive message, that only you can see 😉

teamhurtmore - Member
No, but let them have their say and see if they behave

We have a functioning democratic process which is the better way of rejecting politicians that you do not approve of. Obviously this time around, the two major parties put forward quite different views but failed to attract sufficient support to exercise these visions, which leaves us in a mess - domestically and internationally (Brexshit)

Bringing down a government that is the result of the process ^, "by any means necessary" because it doesn't align itself to your minority interests is an interesting concept...flawed but interesting.

Still we will probably have another opportunity to do it properly again soon....

If they can't survive a wee protest ffs, change the government now, hand jezza the keys.

you do realise the tories just 2 years ago were a shoe in for government for 20 years!

was always a myth anyway

conceding influence to the swivel eyed and pushing the message that the EU was the source of our ills always had a limited shelf-life