Jeremy Corbyn

how can she still be in the potential home secretary position
I think it's perfectly obvious why she is there

ooh, guessing games! First letter?

Abbott stepping down due to Illness

Dianne.... sign this!

What is it?

It's your ****ing resignation... SIGN!

[img] [/img]

I wonder how much of a game changer that is - for all the talk of JC being an electoral liability, it appears he probably isn't, but sadly DA was. I've seen plenty of other comments from people saying they wouldn't vote Labour because of her. Sad because she seems a thoroughly decent person, and I suspect would do a good job in office - the job of being a minister isn't all about instant recall of figures.

@lunge - time to do some last minute campaigning - so DA is no longer a risk, do they want BoJo the clown instead?

The Diane Abbott hate leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, eh?

She wouldn't have been my choice for that job, but then most of Labour's other talent had already stropped off. I'd take her over Boris any day.

Sad because she seems a thoroughly decent person

got any links to show that ?

She'll be back on the front bench if they get in - only a stupid person would think there's any change and they are now safe voting for labour because she is out of the picture.

[quote=TurnerGuy ]got any links to show that ?

[url= http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/seem ]Here you go[/url]

[quote=TurnerGuy ]She'll be back on the front bench if they get in - only a stupid person would think there's any change and they are now safe voting for labour because she is out of the picture.

It's all relative isn't it - would I feel safer with somebody on the front bench who has a problem remembering figures when put on the spot, or a bunch of folks on the front bench with fundamentally nasty values. Not that I think you're right anyway - it's quite common for a cabinet to be significantly different to a shadow cabinet when a party is newly elected, and I expect bridges to be built and talent recalled. Let's hope we get to find out eh?

TurnerGuy - Member
She'll be back on the front bench if they get in - only a stupid person would think there's any change and they are now safe voting for labour because she is out of the picture.

And there you have it the arrogance and insulting nature of the average Tory...

And there you have it the arrogance and insulting nature of the average Tory...

Thing is, I know TG in real life and he's nowhere near as much of a knob as he appears on here.

If the rumours of long term illness are correct, and I hope not (as much as she's a liability she's a human too) then a return to the front bench might not be on the cards at all and I'd hope he apologises for that.

[for balance, I also know Scud and he's a bellend of massive proportions too 😉 As am I]

JonV

You know that...I didn't take well to anyone calling anyone "stupid" even if it does probably apply to me..

scud - Member

And there you have it the arrogance and insulting nature of the average Tory...

...as proven with your sample size of one. 😆

Does the average non-Tory suffer from as much stereotyping and prejudice as yourself...? 💡

Talking politics can really reveal people's ugly side.

How much of a knob is TurnerGuy in real life then?

She'll be back on the front bench if they get in - only a stupid person would think there's any change and they are now safe voting for labour because she is out of the picture.

Depends how ill she is. If she isn't physically able to fulfill the demands of being on the front bench then why would she be put back there? She may not even be able to sit as an MP, we just don't know yet.

If she is genuinely ill, even if only transiently, then you are going to look like a really nasty piece of work.

You know that...I didn't take well to anyone calling anyone "stupid" even if it does probably apply to me..

Taking size and previous occupation into account, anyone calling you stupid probably meets that definition themself. Unless obviously from behind the safety of a keyboard situated in [s]56 Winship Gardens, Woking, Surrey[/s] (no, that wouldn't be fair)

You're still a big, scary lovable bellend though 😉

@chakaping - well, he rides pushbikes around in the woods as a hobby, so 'a bit of one' ?

He seems to have made himself scarce for some reason, so please tell him to read this: https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

He seems to have made himself scarce for some reason, so please tell him to read this: https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

That is great. A few on here could do with reading that...

There was a story on the news earlier suggesting she'd responded to an e-mail from a fake labour party e-mail saying she didn't feel comfortable pretending to be ill and didn't feel it was right.

May of course be more election bobbins...

He seems to have made himself scarce for some reason, so please tell him to read this: https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

Excellent hagiography

I do agree that the racist, sexist etc abuse is not on

Whilst there is no doubt that some of the coverage of Abott is indeed racist and sexist in nature I have no love for her for I view her as a prize hypocrite who defended her decision over schooling her child with a statement she would have termed racist had a white person said it to her

Yes she is bright as the article says , yes she is brave as the article says but she is also a hypocrite as the article does not say

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/diane-abbott-i-sent-my-son-to-private-230293

BR But couldn’t you see why there was anger? People on the left thought ‘we’re not surprised that Blair and Harman did it [ sent their kids to private school] but we don’t understand why Diane Abbott did it because she’s one of us’?

DA Yes, but they didn’t understand me. I’m a West Indian mum and West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children.

It’s that kind of atavistic streak that we have. I can see them in the market on a Saturday morning. A kind of ‘touch my children and we’ll turn quite difficult’.

Interestingly, until now, it’s the one thing that’s got me the most positive response from black women locally. They would come up to me and shake my hand. Because ultimately in their eyes it’s about doing the right thing for their children. But obviously people from other cultures didn’t see it that way at all.

BR I’m guessing those black women couldn’t afford to do what you did yet you’re saying they shook your hand?

DA Exactly. Yes. That’s what you and some of my colleagues on the Left would never understand. In the end you’re coming from a culture where whatever you can do for your children you do.

I personally think she is playing the race card herself there [ what culture does not love their kids ?] to cover her own hypocrisy.

Sadly Junky, I completely agree with you.

That particular statement signalled the end of any respect I once had for her.

Shame.

How to win friends and influence people.

Personally I don't regard it as racist. But I certainly do consider it as much an 'I'm just better than all of you' statement as you'd hear from the most moneyed, disconnected, condescending Tory Lord.

Because the message it was sending out, when translated, was 'do as I say, not as I do, and how dare you question me? Do you know who I am?

It's been all downhill from there for her. But as she demonstrated so magnificently with that statement, and so many since, self-awareness isn't something she's overly burdened with

Abbott sums up the Corbyn crowd, big on sweeping generalisations and worthy taglines, short on detail with non-existant preparation. She had to be on the front bench / prime spot in the campaign as so many Labour MPs won't work with Corbyn just as Corbyn would never work for them.

As for not voting Labour because of her she's much less of an issue than Cornyn or McDonnell would have been as PM and Chancellor. I saw would have been as Labour are going to be crushed electorally.

Sadly the TheDiane she will be remembered mostly for the last few weeks rather than her more notable achievements as per that blog. The prior Labour leadership had kept her in the background for good reason, good for them and as we can see now better for her too.

Whilst there is no doubt that some of the coverage of Abott is indeed racist and sexist in nature I have no love for her for I view her as a prize hypocrite who defended her decision over schooling her child with a statement she would have termed racist h

Easy for you to pass judgement eh Junky? As white men we play the game with the level set to "easy".

bib dun?

great post on abbots achievements by a celeb chef!

https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

Umm. That. Read it and hang your head.

Sadly the TheDiane she will be remembered mostly for the last few weeks rather than her more notable achievements as per that blog

Crocodile tears. If she is not remembered for her achievements it will be because of priize arseholes.

Easy for you to pass judgement eh Junky?

As white men we play the game with the level set to "easy".

* yes they were more than Dianne but lets not debate my mocking point and you can explain why she is not a hypocrite rather than attack me/shoot the messenger defend her actions.

I disagree with you on this Junky - I can see exactly where she is coming from. Fundamentally she's saying that she'd do anything for her kid, because that's part of the culture she comes from - I'm not quite sure how she could say that without using terms you deem to be racist (perhaps you'd like to provide suggestions if you want to try and support your POV). I also find it uncomfortable people judging others for doing what they think is best for their children, even if that does in some way conflict with their politics.

I do not see how you can oppose something politically all your life and then do it and not be judged a hypocrite
She could have said

Like any parent [ she did not even need to bring gender into it] i did what was best for my child. took me about a second to think of that - not that hard is it?
I have no idea why she brought up race because its a universal parent thing rather than race/gender thing unless of course you have inviolable principles the kind you have espoused and fought for all your life.

Now contrast that with Corbyn

Following a difference of opinion about sending their son to a grammar school – Corbyn opposes selective education – they divorced in 1999, although Corbyn said in June 2015 that he continues to "get on very well" with his former wife

Now i think he might be being a tad extreme there but one cannot accuse him of hypocrisy
Her race or gender is irrelevant here is their a race that dont do this or gender?] . To suggest "other cultures" dont see it that way and that is why we are criticising her decision is fatuous bollocks of the highest order.

I dont think Dianne would appreciate me,as a white man, saying that to her if we disagreed on something about kids. I suspect she would use terms stronger than hypocrite.

big on sweeping generalisations and worthy taglines, short on detail with non-existant preparation.

Said without a hint of irony. Brexit means brexit, strong and stable, an un-costed manifesto with few policies, unprecedented u-turns, not answering questions, not talking to the public, need I go on?

Yes she was hypocritical.

Bit of a leap from that to say she deserves no respect though. And certainly doesn't justify her treatment (though I acknowledge you're not saying it does).

To even engage in debate over her merit as an individual fuels the insidious distraction of personality politics, IMO.

Only broken my personal rule to stay away from futile STW politics threads as I think people on both sides had gone too far with her.

I also think she was hypocritical - and the race thing seemed strange. Although I have no idea what it would have been like to grown up as a working class black kid in her time and the view of the world that that might form.

I also think that our expectations of politicians to be whiter than white sometimes gives lie to our own hypocrisy.

I mentioned in the earlier full-of-dog-whistling-right-wing-nut-jobs Abbott thread that I thought she wasn't quite 100% given her deteriorating public performances over the last few years - I'd always admired her ability to wind up middle aged white men and found their screams of "Racist" quite laughable - but also very telling.

If she really isn't well, I hope she recovers enough to come back as an MP if her constituents return her as they have quite a few times. If she's really quite well and just being kept out of the spotlight for political reasons, then it's a sad indictment of the personality politics in which we're wrapped.

I disagree with you on this Junky - I can see exactly where she is coming from. Fundamentally she's saying that she'd do anything for her kid, because that's part of the culture she comes from

so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

I think some of them were slagging off the concept of 'white people' moaning at the VAT addition to independent school's fees. Rather than sending the the kids their per se.

so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

The STW lefties are all saying it was awful and she's dead to them, but don't let that get in the way of your moronic prejudices.

[quote=TurnerGuy ]so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

I'm not your typical STW "leftie" (which may be why I have a slightly different perspective to Junky), but I don't have a problem with anybody sending their kids to a private school if that's what they want to spend their money on and the opportunity is available. Any objection I might have is to the unfairness of the system, and more particularly to the amount of effective subsidy it gets from the state. It's quite nuanced, but IMHO it's possible to object to the existence of the system from the perspective of society but accept that your personal choices make no difference to that. To some extent it comes back to that misquoted Thatcher line about taking care of your own family first, which I presume everybody does to a greater or lesser extent.

Abbott's not had a good election but that article nails it. You see over and over people saying that she got where she is only through positive discrimination. And the evidence? Well she got where she is, and she's a black woman, how else could she have done it? When you look at what those first 4 went through on the way to getting elected, it's incredible that anyone can suggest they [i]benefitted[/i] from discrimination. To this day people still believe the smears that the media and Tories ran on Bernie Grant, the "high priest of conflict"...

The STW lefties are all saying it was awful and she's dead to them, but don't let that get in the way of your moronic prejudices.

not all of them.

Just a quick question...

Can anyone point me to DA actually criticising other parents for sending their kids to private schools. Or was it just a general Lefty thing ?

not all of them.

But you said:

so how come [b]the STW lefties are[/b]...

But you said:

so how come the STW lefties are...

If generalisation is good enough for nearly everyone else on this forum then it is good enough for me...

So you didn't mean what you said?

EDIT: Look, I realise nuance is difficult for you but if you want it in responses, then it would help to include some in your statement.