Jeremy Corbyn

Incredible today to see the same lie repeated time and time again without challenge - i.e. that the numbers published yesterday should have included the borrowing for investment. I hope that the Tory manifesto is treated similarly (I know the answer to this one).

They promised 10000 Mental health nurses. Pretty sure no one has asked them how they'll be paid for. You expect STRONG anyone STABLE will COALITION actually put OF it to the same CHAOS level of scrutiny?

What I don't understand is why Labour staff appearing on TV haven't been briefed to say these rebuttals.

I note that Lady Thornberry is everywhere over the last couple of days, and has come across remarkably well (probably after her telling Michael Fallon he was 'talking bollocks') but thankfully someone seems to have locked Dianne in a cupboard.

What Jezza now needs to do is tell Len McCluskey to STFU, and put him under the stairs with his ex 😆

With friends like these.....

[img] :large[/img]

The thread sums up Labour's problem. Post after post how much peolple hate the opposition. Much like the EU thread there is little positivity about Labour's campaign

Binners as per my post on the other thread she is formally Lady Nugen

Post after post how much peolple hate the opposition.

as opposed to every comment on the BBC HYS about corbyn or abbot or the years of xenophobia spewed out by the right wing press regards the EU 🙄

Binners as per my post on the other thread she is formally Lady Nugen

I know. And she has a problem with flags. But so what? It's just refreshing to see a member of the Labour front bench who's savvy enough not to go blundering into every elephant trap set by the (mostly right wing) press. No wonder they've gaffer taped Dianne up in a cellar somewhere 😉

The thread sums up Labour's problem. Post after post how much peolple hate the opposition. Much like the EU thread there is little positivity about Labour's campaign

Personally, I'm positive about the recognition that the working poor need more help. I think their policies around this show that they understand the issues they face and how the balance has gone against them over the last few years.
I'm very enthusiastic about their appreciation of co-operatives and a National Investment Bank.

In general, I totally believe that the people responsible for creating this manifesto have absolutely the best interests of the British people [i]as a collective[/i] at heart.

Much like the EU thread there is little positivity about Labour's campaign

Also don't agree. Everything in the manifesto is a positive pro-active step and solving some of Britain's problems.

£10 minimum wage - that's huge. It might cause trouble with employers, and it might spark inflation, but it's better than doing nothing.

Much like the EU thread there is little positivity about Labour's campaign

? This thread is mostly inhabited by rightwing trolls so hardly surprising. Those of us on the other side have been extolling the virtues of labour policies and campaign for some time now. Christ even Binners is back on board.

And of course the tories campaign is a ray of sunshine isn't it? No policies, endless repetition of vacuous soundbites, outright lies and pathetic smears against Corbyn, exclusion of the public, and stage managed events setup to give the impression of crowds of supporters when in fact it's abour 30 tory activists lined up in front of a bus.

£10 minimum wage - that's huge. It might cause trouble with employers, and it might spark inflation, but it's better than doing nothing.

I remain to be convinced that higher unemployment and inflation are 'better'.

I remain to be convinced that higher unemployment and inflation are 'better'.

Why higher unemployment? One way an employer could deal with having to pay their lowest paid employees more would be to better balance the other salaries within the company. Radical.

The fact it is not 100% fawning positivity just shows that some people expect more from their leaders/parties.

On the other hand the input from the righties on the Trump / May threads is just full of unquestioning support.

Radical.

Lose for the employee when instead of £8/hr they have no job, lose for the economy as they are paying benefit for said employee not receiving taxes and lose for everyone else as end product gets more expensive.

Much like the EU thread there is little positivity about Labour's campaign

That statement has really exposed you for what you are: a lying, Tory obsessive.

Out of all the manifestos the Labour one is by far the most positive. Out of the main leaders, Corbyn is the one looking focused, idealistic, calm, secure, confident. And this from someone who has never voted Labour, and was unsure of Corbyn. But I'll be voting for them now.

Binners as per my post on the other thread she is formally Lady Nugen

So what?

I think Corbyn's bad for Labour and the country for reasons touched on lightly over 9000 or so pages above. The reason I care is I want Labour in government. Guess how I'll be voting?

I remain to be convinced that higher unemployment and inflation are 'better'.

Would that be like the higher unemployment and inflation that business was squealing about when Labour introduced the minimum wage in the first place?

The unemployment and inflation that never happened?

As an aside, here's a stat for you....

If the minimum wage had kept pace with average boardroom pay increases since its inception, it would now be over 21 quid an hour

Makes you think....

Lose for the employee when instead of £8/hr they have no job, lose for the economy as they are paying benefit for said employee not receiving taxes and lose for everyone else as end product gets more expensive

I see you completely missed the part about balancing the other wages within the company then....

I see you completely missed the part about balancing the other wages within the company then....

I remain to be convinced that higher unemployment and inflation are 'better'.

I'm not sure employers will just fire pepole. After all, it's the people who are making them the money. So if you fire people whose wages cost you more, your company will do less business and you'll lose more money than you would have lost simply giving them a bit more cash.

The inflation argument is more significant, imo - but we do need inflation. It's been below target for years, so they've been keeping interest rates down to try and keep it up. If other pressures push it up, they will be able to raise interest rates which will be good for certain parts of the economy. It would also cool the housing market. So lower income people would face lower house prices and more £s with which to buy them.

I'm not an economist mind, so maybe someone who is more than just an armchair speculator could provide more information.

Given the choice between giving themselves a paycut and punting Dave in the goods in department what do you think a MD is going to choose?

Who handles goods in then if Dave is fired?

Given the choice between giving themselves a paycut and punting Dave in the goods in department what do you think a MD is going to choose?

They will choose to re-balance the wages across the company. Dave is required in the goods department so they will have to pay him whatever the minimum wage is.

Why exactly do you not want Dave to be paid a slightly better wage, are you happy that people are paid so little?

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/theresa-mays-campaign-schedule-for-today-20170517127815 ]The Maybot's schedule for tomorrow has been leaked to the press[/url]

Who handles goods in then if Dave is fired?

Why exactly do you not want Dave to be paid a slightly better wage, are you happy that people are paid so little?

binners - Member

The Maybot's schedule for tomorrow has been leaked to the press

I've done my stint shoving cardboard boxes into a compactor for £3.33/hr, and frankly it would be absurd to get paid £10/hr for such a trivial task.

so 140 quid a week b4 tax/ NI

how much in work benefits would the government need to pay to support you?

I think you are hugely missing the point of a minimum wage

I'm more or less a believer that a job is worth what someone is willing to do it for and don't believe in imposing artificial limits. I've done my stint shoving cardboard boxes into a compactor for £3.33/hr, and frankly it would be absurd to get paid £10/hr for such a trivial task.

best get a robot to do it then.

best get a robot to do it then.

Exactly

Yes, and then Dave can get a more worthwhile job that also pays him £10 an hour.

£10 an hour may sound like a lot for trivial tasks but it is not in isolation. You need a minimum amount to live on and that is why we have/need minimum wages.

fifeandy - Member
best get a robot to do it then.

Exactly

If you can build, supply and service a robot to do that for £3.33 an hour do it, as you will make a fortune.

then Dave can get a more worthwhile job that also pays him £10 an hour.

Where from? We've just forced employers arms to streamline/automate - there's less jobs available, we can't just magic one up specially for Dave.

you are talking rubbish tho

the minimum wage has doubled since it was introduced in 1998, unemployment is at a record low

Apparently, there are quite a few more of those foreign types here than when it was introduced, too.

Did I hear that right? Are there?

unemployment is at a record low

I'm pretty sure there a good number of minimum wage supporters in this thread that are the first people to say that unemployment is only at a record low because of abhorrent zero hour contracts.

I think it is acknowledged that whilst employment is up satisfaction and confidence (in terms of job security) with those jobs is at a low - there was a piece on PM on Monday afternoon.

If you can build, supply and service a robot to do that for £3.33 an hour do it, as you will make a fortune.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/12/mark-carney-britains-car-wash-economy-low-wage-jobs ]The problem is that we're not doing that because we can pay people a pittance to do it instead.[/url]

fifeandy - Member

His mate Jimmy has to work a little harder for his £10/hr.

£10 minimum wage will solve UKs productivity problems aswell! win win win win win win!

I have to say that the bearded one has won me over somewhat - he does seem to have a degree of, for a better word, dignity, about him given the amount of crap being constantly hurled in his direction by the fish eyed sociopath and her cronies which I find impressive.

What is not to aspire to in the Labour manifesto. The more I read and hear the Tories the more it seems they have taken their political/election strategy straight from the pages of Leviathan or Locke's Two Treaties on Government i.e. first create a perceived problem in the state of nature and then the remedy. Perhaps 'strong and stable' to be replaced with 'the life of man under a Corbyn Government will be, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short .

I listened to Hammond this morning and the best he could churn out was the 'strong and stable' and then the 'living within our means' - the point is (the Tories perceived problem) is their definition of 'means' - there is more 'means' about than the Tory perception of it.

As the guy on Question Time pointed out last week, at the end of WW2 gov't debt was 200% of GDP but out of that came the welfare state and the NHS.

Living within our means is bullshit. Its idealogy that makes the Tories want to cut.

BTW Tories per year in govt borrow more than Labour! So they are shite at living within their means anyway.

[quote=richc ]
If you can build, supply and service a robot to do that for £3.33 an hour do it, as you will make a fortune.

why would I want to do that? i'd have to give it all away in tax 😉

I listened to Hammond this morning and the best he could churn out was the 'strong and stable' and then the 'living within our means'

I think the penny is dropping that the tories have absolutely nothing to say other than "we're not Corbyn", and when people see Corbyn on the telly (probably for the first time), they realise that he's not the devil that the Daily Mail and the The Scum make him out to be. Then they see Mummy basically running away and hiding from the public. There are even signs that the media are beginning to change their minds on him. In many respects this is turning into a repeat of his first leadership campaign.

I wonder if the minimum wage were suddenly increased, employers who couldn't afford it would simply offer those employees fewer hours in the short term?

Works out to roughly a four day week or six hour days. It might not have that much of an affect on *some* jobs. And it might really help people with childcare arrangements and such.

I think the minimum wage is an important aspect of getting back to people being able to support themselves rather than having to rely on state support. I don't think the ramifications have been thought through though. Companies will not redistribute salaries across the company and if they tried there'd be a mass exit of more skilled employees. Employers will reduce headcount and expect more from those left. Employers will be a lot more picky about who they employ for £10 an hour and they will have a decent pool of people to chose from. The minimum wage increase is not pushing up other incomes, we'll just end up with more and more minimum wage jobs. People who get caught up in this who were previously above minimum wage are going to think why am I doing a more stressful job when I could be earning the same as someone woring in Tescos. I know it's a topic of conversation in my wife's office, a combination of small or zero pay rises mean the gap is closing quickly.

I think the minimum wage is an important aspect of getting back to people being able to support themselves rather than having to rely on state support.

the problem is some companies could easily pay more [ at the cost of profits] and some - generally smaller ones - would be out of business. i think the best plan is to have a living wage and drift towards it over say a decade or so.