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you think you have any chance of persuading him to do anything other than trot out tory soundbites
At least he has stopped calling him old and tired *, be thankful for that
* I guess head office thought youthful and energetic was not a great tag line for the PM
he's just posting up the negative spin, to try and put people off. Playing mind games.
Not picking sides, but politics has always had an element of spin.
You say what you'd like to do and try and persuade voters that your the person/party to do it. But you've also got to try and show that your opponents policies are less sound and they will be less able than yourselves. That's politics, spin has always been there negative and positive.
Agree it's always been there. It might be getting worse, but it's pretty bad.
Just used Jam to demonstrate it, but it's not limited to any particular side. I think the Tories are better at it though.
The parties aren't judged on their actual policies. They are judged on who has the most persuasive spin.That's not how it's meant to work.
Says who? Spin is as old as people & politics, you can only remove it in the 'lab' the real world will always have elements of spin.
He may have seemed rudderless for a while, but given what we can see in his manifesto, he now definitely has one, and its pointed sharp left to a tax and spend utopia.
the cotrbster is currently speaking in hebden bridge?
stw political live stream?
Like this:
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Tories are better at it though.
Your right as things stand. But under Blair Labour were the spin kings. A lot of different talents are needed to deliver an election victory ( giving you at least the opportunity to enacted your manifesto ). It's probably Corbyn's greatest weakness, an inability to sell him self and his policies.
But under Blair Labour were the spin kings
Indeed - and it worked too!
It's probably Corbyn's greatest weakness, an inability to sell him self and his policies.
Agreed - and this is something I lament both because he doesn't do it well and because it needs doing because people can't judge policies on their merits.
But but but he only ever meets Momentum people! Binners said so
its pointed sharp left to a tax and spend utopia
Utopia is a bad thing now?
Says who? Spin is as old as people & politics, you can only remove it in the 'lab' the real world will always have elements of spin.
Says the idea of democracy. We're meant to vote on the policies that best represent what we want. Not for whoever is the best at spinning.
A rudderless PM and a Marxist chancellor 😆
A rudderless PM and a Marxist chancellor
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Until it didn't. Then imo Labour have been tainted by the distrust ever since. Corbyn is managing to cut through that at last imo. He might have gone too far the other way for many, but I think it was necessary."But under Blair Labour were the spin kings"
Indeed - and it worked too!
Had there been any other candidates in that first leadership election who felt genuine, they might have won too.
Utopia is a bad thing now?
Nono, it'll surely be awesome, i'm looking forward to ditching the car and riding my standard government issue unicorn to work.
Unicorns aren't in the manifesto...
If you have a proper argument then make it. Sarcasm makes it look like you don't.
So what is everyone expecting from the Tory manifesto then? I'm predicting it running to 2 whole sentences.
One referring to providing 'Strong and Stable Leadership', and another about a 'Red, White and Blue Brexit', and that'll be your lot!
binners - Boy jobs and Girl jobs
Things that people consider "utopian"-
adequately funding the NHS
nationalising the railways
protecting worker rights
not having one of the lowest corporate tax rates in europe
free university education
Investing in national infrastructure rather than selling it off for cheap
Grownup immigration policies
not invading people unless you're really really sure
I never had an argument, I merely pointed out which way the rudder was pointing. And much as I think JC is useless, its actually quite nice to have a list of strong policies from him.
Unicorns aren't in the manifesto yet, he's holding back unicorns and money trees to make a late surge in the last week before voting.
adequately funding the NHS
I'm not sure there is such a thing.
It's a black hole, you can just keep on pouring in the money and it'll never fill up.
No clue what the answer is though so don't bother asking
On that we can at least agreefifeandy - Member
I never had an argument
Other Tory manifesto favourites
- Blood sports are in
- Learning disabilities will now be grouped in with 'mental health'.
May should be put in front of the public as often as possible - she's brilliant at it!
So what is everyone expecting from the Tory manifesto then? I'm predicting it running to 2 whole sentences.
As it stands they aren't giving any indication they actually have any policies at all that they can print in the manifesto. The whole election is an exercise in letting JC destroy himself and pull his party down with him, which doesn't require being proactive, just keeping fairly quiet and observing.
It's a black hole, you can just keep on pouring in the money and it'll never fill up.
actually no, it worked "pretty" well about 10 years ago.
Seems he might be right:
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actually no, it worked "pretty" well about 10 years ago
That's very debatable.
My memories of that time were oversubscribed outpatient clinics, poor access to expensive new drugs, lots of elderly folks blocking beds, and long queues for diagnostic equipment (MRI scanner etc)
There's a presumption there that someone waiting for four hours in A&E actually needs or warrants medical treatment, and that the hitting of an arbitrary target indicates anything to do with clinical need or effectiveness.
If there's one thing the Labour years taught us, it's that blind allocation of a target led culture often act to pervert the system - see policing and schools for examples
.
Of course, but it seems unlikely that a steady increase in numbers of those people would co-incide with sweeping cuts to the budget. Unless they are there because some other primary care system is being cut, which is plausible.
I have to say your post does look like victim blaming.
My memories of that time were oversubscribed outpatient clinics, poor access to expensive new drugs, lots of elderly folks blocking beds, and long queues for diagnostic equipment
Serious question as I am not involved with the NHS and thankfully not at the sharp end - is it any better now?
So what is everyone expecting from the Tory manifesto then?
Yes, that's exactly what the current government seem to have learnt.ninfan - Member
If there's one thing the Labour years taught us, it's that blind allocation of a target led culture often act to pervert the system - see policing and schools for examples
its definitely true that A and E waiting times going up is a good thing for healthcare as it is one of the key indicators of an improving healthcare system, unless you are a rabid lefty of course.
Excellent point well made
Serious question as I am not involved with the NHS and thankfully not at the sharp end - is it any better now?
The first two seem slightly better from a patients perspective, clinics running more or less on time, and consultant seems much more relaxed about justifying expensive drugs. Fortunately not been an inpatient recently, but would be a miracle if the latter 2 points had changed for the better.
I remember in once instance I effectively 'blocked' a bed myself waiting 4-5 days for a scan, which disturbingly gave results bad enough they landed me in surgery the next morning....
<puts hand up> 'Sharp end' of the NHS first hand experience here; 17 years of it. Can confirm that the above graph broadly correlates with my (and more importantly my patient's) experience of increasing pressures due to a reduction in resources/ failure of resourcing keeping pace with increased demand. It's more complex than just a lack of funding though; there's some really big and difficult questions to address about how the general public value and utilise the NHS. It feels like we've gone from a general feeling of being privileged to have access to such an amazing health resource, free at point of care, to a sense of entitlement to it. There seems to be a general lack of understanding or interest in how much the health care people expect is costing the public. It feels unsustainable in its current format. Sadly.
Says the idea of democracy. We're meant to vote on the policies that best represent what we want. Not for whoever is the best at spinning.
No democracy is just about giving the citizens the vote as opposed to the elite. It says nothing about how you pick who to vote for.
He was excellent in Hebden Bridge. So packed he had to speak to the crowd inside the town hall then again to the bigger crowd outside the town hall. I am not a Labour Party member, I went along because I'm really worried about this election. I was stunned at how good he was - not what I was expecting given media coverage. I'm going to volunteer to get the vote out. Our Tory MP is a shower of the proverbial and I will be doing my best to help him out of office.
That's interesting!
I was stunned at how good he was - not what I was expecting given media coverage.
🙂
Ahh, the Soviet era saying, the Russian has the advantage over the westerner as he knows never to believe the press.
Re. @clovers post. Yet another example demonstrating how biased the media coverage is.
Similar to the bias around the local elections the other week. Did you know the northern power house had a Labour Mayor elected? Virtually zero coverage regards Labour winning the Manchester Mayoral position. Instead they created the view that nothing good happened for Labour in the local elections.
And the spin in the Paisley local elections, affluent area elects Tory councillors, shock
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/astonishing-tory-ferguslie-park-super-triumph/
30+ years in healthcare on the shopfloor - in scotland so we don't get the worst of what England does.
there is no doubt at all that on any measure the health service has deteriorated over the last few years - something to do with the cuts and the waste of money on the internal market. Morale amongst staff is down and the RCN have just voted overwhelmingly to strike for the first time ever. 1:9 nursing posts are empty. Nurses in training are massivly down.
@molgrips the NHS budget has only gone up. - I don't really need to post my chart again do I. Over a 5 year Parliament the NHS needs an extra 23%, so in round numbers thats an extra £30bn per anum. The issue is that the cost of service provision is rising at 4% pa (older population, growing population, increased cost of treatments as new tech comes in). IMO A&E waiting times are up due in significant part to changes in working practices by GPs.
what are these "significant changes" to which you attribute the cause?