Jeremy Corbyn

Pretty sure outofbreath is just trolling.

Im absolutely convinced of that, but its interesting, never the less

i don't think they've made her a waitress because 'it's a bad job' (and i agree, it's a vastly underrated one in this country) - I think they've made her a casual waiting staff on zero hours contract, having to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.

And fair play to all those that have to do that, even if it isn't the same as being a proper waitress.

In the cartoon creator's own words:

This is a great way to explain privilege to someone who's having a hard time understanding — or someone who doesn't want to recognize it.

"Comics are very human and accessible — they're non-threatening and quite inviting to a reader," Morris said. "It's a lot less daunting than picking up a giant book or trying to decipher a really long or really dense article."

True story.

Make no mistake: Morris isn't taking away from hard work in his comic.

"I'm not trying to say I'm against that idea that if we work hard, we succeed," he said. "I would like to think that is true, for the most part, but I just think people often forget or don't realise that our starting points, or our paths to success, aren't all even. Some people have to overcome more obstacles in the path to succeeding than others."

He was also quick to point out that this isn't about anyone needing to feel bad or guilty for the privileges that they have, but rather it's about honesty and understanding — because maybe that's what could lead us to a better place.

"Acknowledging the issue is one step towards addressing it hopefully," he said.

Ultimately, success — or lack thereof — can be about hard work and other factors, some of which are beyond our control.

A lot of people have been able to relate to this comic — both sides of it — and have reached out to Morris to share.

"Personally, I've grown up somewhere in the middle," he said. Because his dad was in the army, Morris moved around a lot as a kid. "I experienced a lot of different neighbourhoods and schools and friendship groups — some well off, some not so much — and that experience lead me to this belief that ultimately people are all pretty similar wherever you go, we just don't all have the same chances in life."

He was also quick to point out that this isn't about anyone needing to feel bad or guilty for the privileges that they have, but rather it's about honesty and understanding — because maybe that's what could lead us to a better place.

And a big privilege is the genetic one. I am first to admit that I in the position I am today via the luck of genetics (intelligence). My upbringing wasn't that different from the girl in the cartoon and I also can't claim I have put in more effort than anyone else.

The thing is I am 100% aware of that and not pretending it is anything I have done or that I have a right to.

it's a vastly underrated one in this country

Sure is.

And a big privilege is the genetic one.

Yup.

AFAIC the parents who send their kids to the three schools I saw *are* subsidizing the state schools at the expense of their own kids.

They're buying what they perceive to be an education which will be of more advantage to their kids than a state education. The fact that they may be misguided in this enterprise is entirely irrelevant, and can't be construed as 'subsidising' the state system as some sort of benevolent act. Yes, the state may benefit in a short-sighted financial sense from these fools being parted with their money, but there are many others reasons why a 2-tier education system is a bad idea.

"Yes, the state may benefit"

Phew, we got there in the end.

Phew, we got there in the end.

Don't be stupid, I'm arguing that whilst the state may derive a small direct financial benefit, it pays a lot more due to the negative effects to society at large. If you follow your logic, then state education (and everything else for that matter) is unnecessary for all but the very poorest and should be of the lowest quality.

"I'm arguing that whilst the state may derive a small direct financial benefit,"

You've conceded the point I was arguing. If you want to argue about something else maybe someone else will oblige.

[swoon]You've conceded the point I was arguing. If you want to argue about something else maybe someone else will oblige.[/swoon]

Labour are ****ed over the education system, they are ****ed over everything. This is an education policy announcement? FFS They need to do a bit more. It seems likely that they've got a bit of time so they should come up with a cogent, ambitious and optimistic vision for GB and how Labour can realise it.

Hitchens on QT "Yes Corbyn can't win an election- that is clear. But the real point is the Labour Party can't win an election, whomever the leader"

Genius policy.

How about VAT on private medical treatment to help fund the NHS as well?
VAT on property sales to fund new council houses?

None of these ideas carry any risk at all of unplanned behavioural response.

unplanned behavioural response

Do you mean like raiding people's pensions, making them less safe, making people buy houses to let as a means of saving for retirement - that sort of thing ?

The current generation have little to thank Labour for.

[I]Private edudcation is a gift to UK state schools, people paying income taxes for services they don't use. I understand the politics of those parents kids in classes of 35 being hacked off at classes of 20 for those with money to pay privately. So address state system. [/I]

I'm agreeing with Jamba, and when I looked at what we spent vs what was spent per head in the state system - WTF did they do with the money?

And my youngest's fees were basically paid by me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

Very public spirited of you! You sound like one of those people who gets a special award off Davina McCall on those programmes on ITV where people cry a lot to little films accompanied by a Coldplay soundtrack

me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

FFS this is exactly what I mean. You lot really do think you're doing everyone else a favour by splashing your cash around don't you? If having a shit car and not going on the annual ski holiday and jolly to Barbados is sacrifice then I want my sainthood. And you lot wonder why you're despised by those less fortunate.

And you lot wonder why you're despised by those less fortunate

Maybe he just has more cash to splash because he's better at his job than you are?

And my youngest's fees were basically paid by me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

£30k pa saving on cars?
If people care enough they'll sacrifice whatever it takes to pay the extra VAT then?

And maybe he has more cash to splash because the path to his job was more fortunate than others?

And I say this as someone who currently has a pretty decent job and am good at it(although I am currently quite frustrated by it) but spent most of my life working shitty jobs, and the only real difference between my current position and my previous ones is luck.

[I]£30k pa saving on cars?[/I]

No, I was doing +30k mileage pa.

[I]And maybe he has more cash to splash because the path to his job was more fortunate than others?[/I]

Left school at 16, went to college. Started as a trainee programmer in 1983 and worked up from there.

And my OH also did the same, but trained as a hairdresser before getting into sales and then into project management.

Maybe we just worked HARD.

[img] [/img]

Lol at the 30k mileage frothing 🙂

So Labour quoted IFS research which it claimed free primary school meals boosted academic results. Humiliatingly for Labour today the IFS pointed out that it's research only referenced deprived areas and said nothing about a braoder national impact 😳

And my youngest's fees were basically paid by me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

Whatever education options you accessed - it obviously totally failed to give you a realistic perspective.

Its an eye catching policy but there are considerably better uses for the money in the sector. After all universal free school meals also subsidises the slightly less rich. So good politics, not a great policy, still a hell of a step forward for Labour.

Correct me if I'm wrong but TV licences aside, I didn't think the UK tax system was based on hypothecation i.e. Justifying a tax increase by saying that it will be specifically be spent on something. So Corbyn's saying that the tax raised will be spent on free meals? Bollocks. It will go into an amorphous pot and be spent in line with the Government's priorities which probably doesn't include free lunches.

Nice dig at Dianne Abbott by Tim Farron on QT....

"The main difference between us and the Labour Party is that we actually want to be in power!"

😆

Binners I admire your strength at even tuning in to QT with The Diane.

Exactly right on the tax point above.

And whether you like the way Jambs wrote his post or not be is right, as there is no evidence that free school meals for all would improve anything.

Oh. Diane is on QT is she? I thought my dog was acting like she could hear something. Couldn't quite hear it myself - too high frequency I guess.

What was vile about what I posted ? I was quoting the Professor from the IFS - Labour misrepresented their research. I think corbyn's rehash of Labour's 1983 Manifesto pledge is unworkable and will be counterproductive putting greater strain on the state sector. If Corbyn wants to be radical and principalled just abolish all private schools. I was lucky enough to have a very well oaid job and put 3 kids through private school whilst paying high taxes including for education which my kids didn't use (till 16 as 2 of them chose to go to state 6th form). If I didn't believe in the welfare state I would have worked abroad and paid less tax.

I was quoting the Professor from the IFS

So Labour quoted IFS research which it claimed free primary school meals boosted academic results. Humiliatingly for Labour today the IFS pointed out that it's research only referenced deprived areas and said nothing about a braoder national impact

You didn't quote anyone. You said that the IFS "only referenced deprived areas", like deprived areas are irrelevant and those less fortunate than you don't count for anything. That's pretty vile, I think.

Maybe we just worked HARD.

So you worked hard to deprive yourself of holidays to pay for something that you could get for free? That is indeed an admirable goal in life. I doff my cap. 🙄

[img] [/img]

You didn't quote anyone. You said that the IFS "only referenced deprived areas", like deprived areas are irrelevant and those less fortunate than you don't count for anything. That's pretty vile, I think.

IFS says free school meals help the deprived. It does not provide any evidence to suggest that the same benefit is delivered in a non-means tested approach of free school meals for everyone. Where government resource is limited, surely it should be targeted on the basis of both evidence and need?

I live in Scotland, where SNP gave free school meals to P1-3, irrespective of means testing. At my wife's school, uptake increased but mainly amongst those paying for it already, and the school lost outdoor space having to build an extra dining hall (instead of replacing the 3 portakabin classrooms which are disintegrating). No matter which way you look at it, that's not the best use of limited resources.

I listened to QT on the radio. Green bloke came across well.

Tim Frron cant seem to take advantage of the 50 open goals the Libs have. Gravitas bypass.

Dianne is like a panto baddie! But has good tekkers at not answering questions. She nearly came out against Ken.

Whahey! Morning folks, I'm a salutary lesson in Stay The Hell Away From STW Politics Threads When Drunk! 😀

No matter which way you look at it, that's not the best use of limited resources.

You're absolutely right, it's bloody stupid. I honestly don't want anyone to think that I am in any way defending the current leadership of the Labour Party or their deranged policies in any way, that was absolutely not my intention.

My intention was just a straight up drunken ad hominem attack, let's be absolutely clear about that. I was playing the man not the ball, but then the ball has been punctured and lying in a muddy puddle at the other end of the pitch since last June, so what the hell. Anyway, my post got reported and deleted so I'd best hang my head in shame and shut up. I'm done here, peace out.

😆

This hasn't been a politics thread for some time now. More like a schoolyard squabble where everyone has to choose sides.

Jezza's issued a statement condemning the American air strikes on Syria.

I wonder if he does it consciously, or whether it just happens automatically on a kind of default, auto-pilot setting?

He said in a statement: “Tuesday’s horrific chemical attack was a war crime which requires urgent independent UN investigation and those responsible must be held to account.

“But unilateral military action without legal authorisation or independent verification risks intensifying a multi-sided conflict that has already killed hundreds of thousands of people.”

Completely correct.

Corbyn said that....what bastard no wonder lefties like Binners hate him

Should he have published a dossier for you binbins 😉

Oldbloke. Not replacing the old classrooms sounds like typical poor planning by the Local authority/ school rather than, being connected to a central government initiative with funding for fsm provision.

South of the border central gov provided funding to expand catering facilities to meet the increased nr of covers at each school.

I've seen schools in very deprived areas built at the same time in very different conditions, whilst some have been on their knee others have been old but in vgc, the difference has been the quality of the senior leadership team

Only if you sex it up for me JY 😉

“But unilateral military action without legal authorisation or independent verification risks intensifying a multi-sided conflict that has already killed hundreds of thousands of people.”

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39529264 ]Russia to boost Syrian air defences[/url]

T1000 - Member

funding for fsm provision.

I think we should be keeping religion out of schools tbh

I see Ed Millibean's positioning himself for a leadership bid.

[url= http://metro.co.uk/video/the-ed-mili-band-1444031/?ito=vjs-link ]Millibean promo[/url]