Jeremy Corbyn

Monday is jam making day.

I thought he was "totally against sugar on health grounds", though?

Yes, but he is for jam because some people who eat jam might be footballers.

He was on Pesto on Sunday. Perhaps today is a recovery day?

some people who eat jam might be footballers.

*applause*

He's trying to make his mind up what to say and then practice saying it without deviation. That takes time

There seems to be some subtleties to this Article 50 bill that I can't quite get my head around.
The way it's written in the Guardian is that there is one vote (next week) and that the 3 line whip is for that.

Elsewhere I've read that there are 3 votes and it can be stopped at any time. The 3 line whip is only for the first of these, to show that Labour recognise and respect the referendum result.

At the second 2 votes more amendments take place and the 'shape' of the bill becomes clearer, allowing Labour to specify exactly which elements of the bill they object to should they wish to vote against.

I've read a few political commentators say that JC is actually playing this pretty well, although that's certainly not how the media are portraying it. Basically giving May enough rope to hang herself with.

Basically giving May enough rope to hang herself with.

Alex all legislation has 4 readings / debates / votes, namely commons / lords / commons / lords

Supposedly 100 Labour MPs will defy the whip (in JC's mould 😉 ) plus the SNP - so vote will be something like 500 vs 150

But the question is, does the whip only refer to the first vote and is Labour going to vote against when it comes back?

But the question is, does the whip only refer to the first vote and is Labour going to vote against when it comes back?

I do think Corbyn has made a mistake here. As above tho he would be pilloried in the press no matter what he does.

A large section of the party want to pander to the xenphobes, another section have principles and will vote in accordance with them. the vast majority of labour mps personally want to stay in.

But the question is, does the whip only refer to the first vote and is Labour going to vote against when it comes back?

Why would the whip significantly effect how MPs vote on an issue as big as this?

I love Corbyn's Logic.....

I am going to table a stack of amendments to your bill, but regardless of your reaction to any of those is, I've ordered everyone that they absolutely have to vote in support of it anyway

Right up there with 'don't tell 'em your name Pike!'

I am going to table a stack of amendments to your bill, but regardless of your reaction to any of those is, I've ordered everyone that they absolutely have to vote in support of it anyway

Which given he's in favour of leaving the EU is spot on. If he can make the exit as smooth as possible his leadership will have a achieved something in the eyes of the left.

binners - that's why I'm asking if there is actually a plan to block later. i.e. be seen to follow the referendum, until something specific to May's brexit gives them a plausible reason to block.
(plausible in the eyes of leavers in Labour heartlands).

Probably too much to hope for.

hat's why I'm asking if there is actually a plan to block later.

A plan?

Sure there's a plan. A cunning one. As cunning as a cunning fox who has just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford University....

It's what everyone associates with Jeremy after all. Fox like political cunning

I do think Corbyn has made a mistake here.

It's going to bury him. His entire leadership is premised on the rejection of new labour tory-lite policies. Yet on the single biggest and most important issue in decades, the labour party at his command are once again voting to support the tories (and UKIP).

The vast majority of labour MPs are staunchly pro-remain.
A large majority of labour voters are pro-remain.
Most trade unions are pro-remain.
Most (IMO - I don't know the figures) labour members are pro-remain.
Most (again IMO) Corbyn leadership voters are pro-remain.

Absolute madness. I know a lot of people who voted for Corbyn. Not a single one of them I've spoken to supports his position, and are now openly saying that he's no better than previous leaders who pandered to vocal minority interests. The only difference this time is that instead of middle class marginal voters, it's working class reactionaries. The former would at least have won him some elections, the latter will never vote for him anyway.

Fox like political cunning

Well, something beginning with 'c' . . .

Pretty much bang on there Daz. But that's conviction politics for you. What the hell did people expect?

The irony of the archetypal lefty, the stuff of right wing press horror stories, delivering the Tory's a complete unopposed free pass to tear up workers rights, then a blank sheet of paper to re-write the constitution, absolutely defies belief!

Or it would be if it was anyone else other than that ****-wit handing it to them

And that's before you even start to think about the serial rebel getting all huffy about backbenchers refusing to do his bidding on a matter of principle, and we truly are in la la land

He's about to sign away pretty much everything Labour achieved over a whole century. Their whole legacy! And he's too stubborn and shit thick to even see it!

Conviction politics eh? Brilliant!

Jammy c***?

But that's conviction politics for you.

I'm not even sure this is conviction politics. Corbyn's own views aside, the clear principles of the labour party are pro-remain, and to me and everyone else it looks like Corbyn is going against these principles in favour of electoral expediency*. That's not conviction politics, it's no better than what new labour did.

*He hasn't even got this right, as voting for article 50 is not going to win or save him any seats. When the blairites abandoned party principles they at least won elections, Corbyns going to throw the baby out with the bath water.

This is them explaining their position as clearly as possible:
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/826420366574620672

Perhaps he believes (1) in respecting the vote and (2) that immigrants are not the root of our problems. Radical views I accept.

respecting the vote

I'd prefer he respected the vote of the vast majority of labour voters, MPs and members, and the 48% of people who voted in the referendum. His job is to oppose the government, not give them a blank cheque in a shameless and pointless attempt to appease idiots and racists in constituencies where UKIP are stirring up hatred and racism.

He's always wanted out, this is win in Corbyn's world. His thinking is that when he gets in power labour can nationalise all the industries without EU issues. The students and the metroplitian liberals who jumped to Corbyns cause never looked very hard at his views, and hence, now feel let down, but its they who are the fools.

Politics is a funny world, where those on the hard left and right can come together to get rid of the EU and then after fight over the spoils.

There is [b]no[/b] justification for Labour to block the UK's departure from the European. The country voted to Leave. and Labour is respecting the vote. Nor are they playing any tactical games about blocking it later. It's done, just a matter of process.

@daz no it isn't his job to oppose the Government just for the sake of it.

It is the job of the opposition to represent the views of people who disagree with government policy. Once again labour have forgotten that.

It is the job of the opposition to represent the views of people who disagree with government policy. Once again labour have forgotten that.

Including UKIP voters then?

Seems an odd definition to me.

Corbyns job, as far as he's concerned, and has always been concerned, is to represent the interests of his immediate coterie of hard left nutters. And at the moment that interest coincides with the same goals as the hard right.

What's depressing is that the naive idiots who just re-elected him expected anything different, before they condemned the Labour Party to its destruction and some typically clueless cloud-cuckooland idea that leaving the EU will usher in some kind of socialist revolution.

It won't. It'll deliver the polar opposite. All labours triumphs over the 20th century will be shredded by a hard right Tory party that sees the opportunity of a lifetime to turn the clock back a hundred years

What's staggering is not just that labour has a leader so profoundly stupid, and blinded by his own nonsensical fantasy ideology, but there were so many sufficiently dense people to vote him in, and in doing so sign the death warrant of the party and all it ever achieved.

Seriously... what does this moron think the likes of Iain Duncan Smith are going to do about workers rights when they've got a blank sheet of paper in front of him? And they're actually actively supporting this lunacy! It defies belief! Talk about being totally detached from reality!

and the 48%

This is it for me. Just come out and say we respect the referendum result, we respect the 52% who voted out AND the 48% who voted remain.

I guess that would mean a Norway/ Swiss type outcome/fudge (but obvs much betterer!)

Including UKIP voters then?

You think UKIP voters disagree with the current government?

before they condemned the Labour Party to its destruction

I don't think we have to go over the causes of Corbyn being elected again. Do we? I'd suggest though that if that opinion is typical of centrist anti-corbynites in the party then labour will be out of government for a lot longer than Corbyn will be around.

Well Owen Smith - remember him - the traitor/Tory lite/blairite scum - is presently defying the whip for the first time in his career (not the 400th) to take a stand and represent the 67% of labour voters (remember them? The ones deserting the current Cotbyn Labour Party in their millions) who voted remain.

These bloody conviction positions eh?

yes

You think UKIP voters disagree with the current government?

Yes, massively so.

This is just getting ridiculous now:

I will vote for Brexit bill tho I fear the consequences will be catastrophic - Margaret Beckett

If Corbyn was so attached to convictions in politics, he would allow MP's a free vote.

Not drag in the three line whip to keep them in line.

Hypocrite.

Typical rather than ridiculous ?

No backbone - avoid decisions

Don't take responsibility - blame others

Isn't it now obvious that the whole "conviction narrative' was always a mirage designed to fool the unthinking into ignoring/accepting the cuckoos

No backbone - avoid decisions

Don't take responsibility - blame others

"This is just getting ridiculous now:"

Isn't it. Utterly mental.

That sounds like the opposite of imposing a whip

I don't think it's a wilful avoidance of decision-making.
It's the result of no clear route mapped out before the referendum.
There was no post-referendum planning. Nobody can even agree on the meaning of the 'advisory' part should be.
It's a complete mess. The fact that people (including Corbyn) didn't even know what the timing should be post-referendum is telling enough.

The problem is, I was always a remainer, so I'm always going to feel that brexit is stupid and that the campaign to leave was full of lies.
But I must admit - as soon as the referendum result was in, I assumed parliament would follow suit and brexit first, negotiate after.

but alex, thats the rationale response - we are in a new world

Corbyn is not cut out for the job, that has been obvious from day 1

The bright side is that they have uncovered a possible replacement with Starmer.

Alex quite right there was no planning for a Leave vote. Cameron would not even entertain the possibility and he should be rightly criticised for that. Corbyn at least stuck his oar in and said A50 should be triggered immediately althoigh that was another of his make it up on the fly "policies"

The bright side is that they have uncovered a possible replacement with Starmer.

Yes of course. In a world of increasing populism, where policy and detail is secondary to prejudice and ignorance, the answer is to hand the leadership to a technocratic lawyer who comes across as an emotionless automaton? 🙄