Less a criticism - more an observation.
If their hopes were so low, I think it suggests that they don't think a lot of their man JC...
If their hopes were so low, I think it suggests that they don't think a lot of their man JC...
A lot of them didn't. Which was part of the reason why they were so far behind in the polls.
A lot of them didn't. Which was part of the reason why they were so far behind in the polls.
Well, if those who know him have so little faith in him - how on earth can those who don't be asked to?.........
No one it was a hung parliament.Who won
Which is a really shit way of trying to not admit they lost seats and their majority.and did they increase their vote despite being crap.
As i said at the time it was the weirdest election ever as the losers were happier than the "winners".What does that say for those who came first loser?
Looks like that is still the case when "neutrals are spinning like this.
Everyone knows Mays campaign was the shittest in living memory.
Well, if those who know him have so little faith in him - how on earth can those who don't be asked to?
It's called campaigning.
Well, if those who know him have so little faith in him - how on earth can those who don't be asked to?.........
I think that's a false premise: Corbyn overwhelmingly won both his leadership elections, which tells us that the membership supports him. It is of course true that he lost the GE, but the biggest vote share since 2001 gives supporters grounds for optimism.
At the same time, there were many vocal critics in the PLP, who instead of respecting the leadership result, choosing to behave like petulant children, refusing to serve in the shadow cabinet and openly briefing against him to their friends in the media. What these people consistently fail to observe is that Labour has a content problem: and offering nothing more than Anyone But Corbyn achieves nothing. I make an honourable exception here for Kier Starmer, who despite his political differences with Corbyn, has rolled up his sleeves and got on with the job.
Corbyn overwhelmingly won both his leadership elections, which tells us that the membership supports him
Isn't that a bit of a false premise as well then? Given the no-confidence vote in 2016. Admittedly, much has changed but I'll wager that strong doubts within his own party remain.
It's called campaigning.
You've a very long road ahead of you then..
Isn't that a bit of a false premise as well then? Given the no-confidence vote in 2016. Admittedly, much has changed but I'll wager that strong doubts within his own party remain.
You're conflating the PLP with the membership. See the second paragraph of my previous post.
You're conflating the PLP with the membership. See the second paragraph of my previous post.
No, I'm not - if your own MP's have little faith in you then that's a problem, regardless of the views of the membership & visa versa.
Labour are now in a position where they could win the next election, I dont believe this would have been possible without Corbyn.
I dont believe this would have been possible without Corbyn.
Latest YouGov poll on who would make the best PM, Jezza came third. In a two horse race, that's quite an achieve!
With the utter shambles opposite them, Labour should be streets ahead in every poll going. That they are not is perhaps rather telling...
Shame on you fools who voted for a Marxist chancellor. You can deny Corbyn's anti British, terrorist sympathising values all you like but you can't change facts. Think long and hard before voting for him again if you have a mortgage, JC will happily sacrifice your home as he wrecks the economy and leaves your offspring to pick up the tab. Your misplaced sixth form principles mean that Socialism is a festering cancer that just won't die, despite its abject failure ever single bloody time it's given the reigns.
Shake off your inverted snobbery and all hail the Mogg 😀
Marxist chancellor.
Yawn. When are you lot going to change the record?
Think long and hard before voting for him again if you have a mortgage
WTF has having a mortgage got to do with it? I don't think they're planning on nationalising privately held housing.
JC will happily sacrifice your home
And how will he do that exactly?
Socialism is a festering cancer that just won't die, despite its abject failure ever single bloody time it's given the reigns.
Care to elaborate? How do you define 'abject failure'? The NHS? Welfare state? Workers rights? Narrower divide between rich and poor? Higher wages for the bottom half of the country? Fewer homeless? Better, more and cheaper social housing? etc...
multiculturalism
Marxist Chancellor?? Big John has some clever wheezes involving tapping the capital markets as borrowing pays for itself. He doesn’t quite understand how and why but mere details only last 12 hours normally
It’s rather sad to watch him being interviewed. He gets about 30.% of his briefing paper at best.
But some of his new best mates are asset managers and hedge fundies 😉
Marxist chancellor.Yawn. When are you lot going to change the record?
you can't dismiss it though with a flippant yawn when he himself says he is a Marxist :
The donkey jacket;
Cheap, warmish, cheap, waterproofish, cheap.
I had a non-pvc shoulder patch number from Millets.
Tragically, I used to wear it with Docs, silk scarf and a trilby.
What a ****.
Socialism is a festering cancer that just won't die
Socialism means using the mechanism of the state to help those who need it. If you think that's a cancer then you can FRO, frankly. Cos as far as I am concerned neoliberalism is a rotten cancer, the symptoms of which mean blaming the needy for their predicament and generally not giving a shit about anyone outside your own family.
That's ****ing disgraceful. So some socialist governments have failed, whatever, so have some conservative ones. In terms of social well-being, most Tory governments are abject failures.
Not everything is about ****ing money you know.
Call me a leftie snowflake whatever jeering insult is fashionable these days, whatever, but seems to me that all the justification for right wing policies boils down to people trying to justify ****ing self-interested behaviour.
See beggars on the street? Feel sorry for poor people? Should I a) empathise and strive to help them or b) blame them so I can wash my hands without feeling guilty? Which one is easier? Be honest with yourself now. Why do you choose b? It's cos makes everything easier for you.
Macdonell the Marxist 😉 today acknowledging that being in the EU wouldn't prohibit their nationalisation plans.
Sensing the wind is changing re brexshit, I like it!
The Tory campaign was shite for sure, but Labour faced a much bigger hill to climb and they surprised us all (even us 6th form socialists) with an an impressively disciplined campaign (when Abbott was kept out of the spotlight) .
The Tories have continued on in the same shambolic vein ever since.
IF the next election comes along corbs will finish the job he started.
Sadly the Tories know this and no matter how bad the **** themselves and the country they'll keep May there until their bonkers Brexit is thru
Cos as far as I am concerned neoliberalism is a rotten cancer.
Absolutely.
MacDonnell might identify as a Marxist, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's an idealogue who's going to zealously force his personal plan on the country - like Tories do. He's intelligent enough to be pragmatic.
However he's trusting that the public are intelligent enough to understand that, rather than just using the Marxist comment as ammo for their mudslinging.
if your own MP's have little faith in you then that's a problem, regardless of the views of the membership & visa versa.
Shouldn't this comment be in the Theresa May thread 🙂
The thing is that the Labour MPs who had no faith in Corbyn in 2016 as they thought he was unelectable can now see that he is and can be if they get behind him.
Whereas Theresa May was a shoe in until she messed up big time and is now for all intents and purposes unelectable in the eyes of her own party.
MrLeb a free vote on Fox hunting was in the 2010 Tory manifesto (I believe) and it was in 3 Labour/Blair manifestos before they finally had one.
Constituency Labour Party Chairman not impressed with the Corbynistas job’s for the boys
I hereby resign from being Chair of my CLP, resign from the CLP and resign from the Labour Party. Morecambe and Lunesdale have just had the most set up, one sided and biased selection that has sidelined all 3 excellent, loyal and dedicated local candidates…
“I feel this entire process has been a total set up to impose one particular candidate onto the CLP.
“One candidate felt so bullied and degraded by the harassment she felt subjected to that she withdrew from the selection…
“The Labour Party… is still a corrupt old boys club where people in power get to dictate who stands for Parliament…
“I know that I will be far from the only member to feel this way and withdraw their support from the local and/or national party. I would urge anyone doing so to state their reason in writing to the powers that be. I for one will not be party to this corruption.”
SO jamby is not a fan of the labour party and he is still quoting from Quido
Later tonight will be news about bears in the woods and the Popes religious beliefs
Right, so the right wing are still confusing history.
Lets put it another way. One month before the last election was called would you have thought it possible the result of an election a few weeks in to he future would result in a hung parliament? Would you have thought, at that time that if the result was a hung parliament then Corbyn would have had a superb result?
Think back to the polls, think back to how the press saw things(Printed and broadcast, including the BBC), think back to how smug and self assured the Tories were and give an honest answer.
I believe they were 150 % certain of the outcome till it happened 😉
As i said there wont ever be a result where the losers are happier than the winners
Polls have a huge amount of “adjustment” in them, the make up of the electorate changed with many mkre students registering for example so the “adjustment” was wrong. Exit polls are much more reliable as how they jist voted and how they voted last time.
No doubt Corbyn felt like it was a win not least as he got to stay on as leader and carry on with the “transformation of the Labour Party in his image” vs getting the boot pronto.
Not the question Jamba, forget the polls.
Remember grinning, self satisfied, strong and stable May? Remember the message that Labour were going to be wiped out, that UKIP could become the second party? Remember the press portraying Corbyn as a bumbling idiot who had no support even in his own party outside the left wing head bangers?
Would you thought it possible just before the election was called and would you have said such a result would be remarkable? Would you have even entertained the idea?
Anyone just hear Chris Grayling’s interview on Newsnight on their “review” of the Tory year? I think he’s been reading our Forum RWNJs’ posts. 😆
No ,he’s just a ****.
Remember ............Would you have even entertained the idea?
All you need to remember is the numerous statements made predicting the tories 100 majority to know whether he would have entertained the idea.
Corbyn was great, the tories were piss poor. Was he great enough, clearly not. I also think it would have been even closer if the campaign went on for another month or so as it was building by the week.
FTFYNo doubt Corbyn felt like it was a win not least because tories predicting a 150 win saw them lose their majority
IT was so strange, the losers won more than the winners.
She called an election to strengthen her hand and it was weakened as his support grew. It was not a great day to be a Tory
Cos as far as I am concerned neoliberalism is a rotten cancer
so why so much support for the EU ?
MacDonnell might identify as a Marxist, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's an idealogue who's going to zealously force his personal plan on the country - like Tories do. He's intelligent enough to be pragmatic.However he's trusting that the public are intelligent enough to understand that, rather than just using the Marxist comment as ammo for their mudslinging.
his view of democracy seems to be whoever fights hardest on the streets :
celebrates spitting in someones tea, what a loser he is :
Interesting expectations
One side was crap but ended up with higher share of vote than before and in government. Disaster, total disaster
Other side was less crap, ends up in Opposition. Success. Brilliant and awesome leader.
Probably sums up the difference between those who need to be tied to either bunch. Such an odd concept
However he's trusting that the public are intelligent enough to understand that
That is always a dangerous approach, proven in this thread just 2 minutes ago
I guess THM it really depends if you are able to look at the position from an independent position, perhaps observing from the outside. Try imagining it was somewhere like canada or New Zealand.
I guess THM it really depends if you are able to look at the position from an independent position
I see what you did there. Even if you don’t see it, I do. 😀
Other side was less crap, ends up in Opposition. Success. Brilliant and awesome leader.
You really want to only deal in black and white?
If you were a football pundit, you'd just go 'well, they lost, they won - goodnight' at the end of the match 🙂
And for all your claims to be independent - you might not be party affiliated but you might as well be because you sure as hell are politically aligned to the right.
teamhurtmore - MemberInteresting expectations
One side was crap but ended up with higher share of vote than before and in government. Disaster, total disaster
Other side was less crap, ends up in Opposition. Success. Brilliant and awesome leader.
Probably sums up the difference between those who need to be tied to either bunch. Such an odd concept
LOL you dont have to be Derrida to find where your loyalties lie. Its hidden in the text...
Brilliant and awesome leader.
i think THM must have started on the Xmas sherry!
😆
Sober as a judge thx
Not at all mol. According to the 4x4 matrix I sit slightly to the left of centre on the political axis but comfortably on the libertarian side of the other, more relevant axis. Hence the constant error of those who are limited to one dimensional thinking and a need to label people according to their own limited perspectives. Makes me smile anyway!
Must be so difficult for you at the voting booth thm. 😆
It's is, but there is always a least worst candidate. Normally choose on local issues.
Normally choose on local issues.
How topical
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Hence the constant error of those who are limited to one dimensional thinking and a need to label people according to their own limited perspectives.
This.
Plus between 1997 & 2015 (inclusive) a vast number of people (me included) could cheerfully have voted for any of the three main parties. (Or not voted and been equally happy whoever won.)
Since then the Labour party have walked off the pitch, and the LibDems have been sent off the pitch.
So even people who never had any party affiliation and still don't can be abused as being evil Tories for the foreseeable future. (Ironically, by people who have cheefully voted for near identical policy for decades!)
Hence the constant error of those who are limited to one dimensional thinking and a need to label people according to their own limited perspectives. Makes me smile anyway!
Not everyone does that you know.
so why so much support for the EU ?
Because membership of the EU, for all its faults, is better than the alternative.
Cos as far as I am concerned neoliberalism is a rotten cancer
so why so much support for the EU ?
Because membership of the EU, for all its faults, is better than the alternative.
Or to put it another way "Because neoliberalism, for all its faults, is better than the alternative."
Or to put it another way "Because neoliberalism, for all its faults, is better than the alternative."
Yes, if you were to twist my words so that they completely misrepresent what I said and believe.
Or to put it another way "Because neoliberalism, for all its faults, is better than the alternative."
Yes, if you were to twist my words so that they completely misrepresent what I said and believe.
I thought you were saying you detest neoliberalism, but you are happy to run the economy on a neoliberal basis so we can stay in a neoliberal trade group because you think that's better than not doing so. I guess you weren't. 😀
[b]I thought[/b] you were saying you detest neoliberalism, but you are happy to run the economy on a neoliberal basis so we can stay in a neoliberal trade group because you think that's better than not doing so. I guess you weren't.
Vanishingly unlikely.
Not everyone does that you know.
Not even when someone tickles you?
@chest I would certainly agree the result was remarkable
As @outofbreath says I too would have and indeed did vote for each of the 3 major parties between 1997 and 2015. As he says Lib Dems now stand for nothi g at all thanks to Clegg and Labour are totally out of the question with Jeremy “safe space for anti-Semites” Corbyn and John “The Marxist” McDonnell. As I said on the EU thread out of principal I will ensure I contribute zero (or as little as humanly possible) to a Corbyn Government by retiring (55 nearly anyway) and / or leaving the country. I will of course keep voting for the next 15 yeats at least (easy to pop back for a while to restart the clock)
As I said on the EU thread out of principal I will ensure I contribute zero (or as little as humanly possible) to a Corbyn Government by retiring (55 nearly anyway) [b]and / or leaving the country[/b].
Don't let the door slam etc.
out of principal I will ensure I contribute zero (or as little as humanly possible) to a Corbyn Government by retiring
You're not serious?
You know that your tax money doesn't go to the people in government personally, don't you?
I've stuck up for you in the past Jam on principle but god damn you are making it hard to do.
Shake off your inverted snobbery and all hail the Mogg
A religious zealot? Awesome choice there.
As for this terrorist supporting. Thought even the rabid right would have given up on that after the maybot got into bed with the DUP.
One of the funniest jamba posts since “150”. 😀
ransos - Member
I thought you were saying you detest neoliberalism, but you are happy to run the economy on a neoliberal basis so we can stay in a neoliberal trade group because you think that's better than not doing so. I guess you weren't.
Vanishingly unlikely.
Not very nice, is it?
Edit for double post.
Not very nice, is it?
Having opinions and statements attributed to me that I do not hold and have not expressed?
He questioned a possible contradiction in your loyalties. You called him stupid. One is debate, the other is abuse.
He questioned a possible contradiction in your loyalties. You called him stupid. One is debate, the other is abuse.
No, he chose to misrepresent what I said. If he wanted clarity, he could've asked for it, instead of deciding for me what I think. Given his form on this thread, I do not believe that he is acting in good faith, which is why I highlighted "I thought", because I don't believe he thinks that for a minute. If you consider that to be abuse, I expect that you spend a lot of time feeling offended.
Though I'm sure he's relieved that you're here to stick up for him.
Anyway, if you have a problem with anything I've said, you know where the report button is.
I’m sure oob is big enough to look after himself. I read your post as implying that he wasn’t capable of thought. I read his as making the suggestion, via a narrative device, that neoliberalism was a least-worst option, rather than suggesting that you had said that. Isn’t language fun?
Anyway, have a nice Christmas.
I’m sure oob is big enough to look after himself.
Actually no, I'm a bit of a pussy and miles out of my depth in the mean streets of an STW political thread. 😀
I read his as making the suggestion, via a narrative device, that neoliberalism was a least-worst option, rather than suggesting that you had said that.
In a nutshell. Can't really see how it could be read any other way, but any misreading must have been a genuine mistake because nobody on the internet would ever deliberately miss a point and then use an ad hom to duck it.
Anyway, have a nice Christmas.
Yup. sincere Merry Christmas to all.
Old-ish news now, but more good news for Momentum:
It all seems irreversable to me.
That is good news given how corrupt Ann Black is.
Its the old canards.
momenteum is mainly centre left not hard left. Those opposing momentuem ie Progress are not centerist but are rightwingers within the labour party and well out of step with both its principles and membership. Being anti isreal is not anti semetic
finally securing a majority using democratic votes is not undemocratic
Its the old canards.
Sorry, shouldn't have linked to the anti-Corbyn Guardian. Here's the same story in the Mirror. Hopefully a bit fairer and more balanced.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/head-labour-disciplinary-panel-ousted-11861188
given how corrupt Ann Black is.
Linky?
publicly supporting disgraced Tower Hamlets mayor Lutfur Rahman
hmmm
Blackadder star and Labour member Tony Robinson accused supporters of Mr Corbyn of "undermining" Ms Black.Before the result was announced, he tweeted: "Ann Black's brilliant- a radical voice for ordinary members on the NEC with an awesome work rate. The idea of the Corbynite left trying to undermine her is outrageous. If true it would confirm what I've always feared- our party completely taken over by and for a leftist clique".
"our party completely taken over by and for a leftist clique"
Hilarious. A clique with 100s of thousands of members who have the temerity to participate in party elections and democratic processes. It's amazing that the likes of Robinson still haven't got their heads around the simple idea of a democratic party.
Blackadder star and Labour member Tony Robinson accused supporters of Mr Corbyn of "undermining" Ms Black.
I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm really not sure why his opinion is worth reporting. Same goes for all celebs.
he is wrong. this is the rank and file reclaiming their party from a right wing cabal
He is quite active in the party and its the party who likes to hse Celebs during elections
Putting Momentum in charge of the disciplinary process is the definite entryist / cuckoo take over. Anti-Semitism, what anti-semitism. No nothing tonsee here we’ll make sure its all covered up.
he is wrong. this is the rank and file reclaiming their party from a right wing cabal
You mean a centrist cabal that won three elections in a row, and all Corbyn could do was come second to the worst prime minister and tory party this country has seen for a very long time.
This country needs an effective opposition, a counter to brexit, and that opposition has peeled off to the left, they don't want power because the left only can do one thing: be a protest party.
of copurse you rightwingers would see it like that. simply not true however and if those rightwingers had not spent a year fighting corbyn and supporting the tories in Scotland we would not have a tory government now. Its the right wing that are the destroyers here.
You mean a centrist cabal that won three elections in a row
The last time being thirteen years ago. You seem to have forgotten that the centrists have lost twice since then.
and all Corbyn could do was come second to the worst prime minister and tory party this country has seen for a very long time.
The tories called the election because they believed it would destroy Corbyn and the Labour party. Instead, they are now neck-and-neck, with the Tories forced to bribe religious fundamentalists so they can cling on to power.
Its the right wing that are the destroyers here.
Whereas Comrade Corbyn would rebuild the economy in a Venezuelan stylee.