What about anti-Zionist Jews?
the only place in the world Jews have the right to live
What a load of bollox. Jews have the right to live in the UK. And quite a few other places.
To claim that they don't have this right sounds a tad anti-Semitic to me.
Well there you go Jamba. Showing a basic lack of understanding of what anti semitism is.
I have never read a full report or piece of work from her before onky seen her on tv, from the anti-semitism report I certainly don't respect her. Her nomination for a peerage is a clear payment for agreeing to write the report
Just as well she's not a mountain biker as there would be lawsuits flying around about pretty obvious libel...
Well last night was interesting , to say the least. Educational. It was enlightening as to what the whole Momentum thing was all about.
Basically... [url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tom-watson-angers-jeremy-corbyn-fans-with-attack-on-arm-twisting-trots-infiltrating-labour_uk_57a9c626e4b089961b857cde ]what Tom Watson said the other day was pretty much bang on![/url]. It would have been impossible to witness what I did last night and not draw that exact conclusion. The 3 of us who went all thought exactly the same.
As he said: They have no interest at all in winning a general election. They do not want to win the votes of a wider electorate. They are the outriders of 'Radical Revolutionary Socialism'.
So to start with this was billed as 'the establishment of a local branch of Momentum'. But we don't recognise anyone. And we're all local labour party members. Then the Momentum mob introduce themselves and - surprise surprise - they aren't local. They've been bussed in. As people stand up to speak, they introduce themselves. A lot of these people aren't from the constituency either.
So far, so Militant Tendency then.
The first point of order from Mr Momentum (complete with Cuban flag T-shirt): How to get your Constituency Labour Party Parliamentary Candidate deselected. Wooooah there!!! * me! No foreplay then? Not even a bit of fumbling with the bra strap? We're going straight in bareback there then?
There is no discussion as to WHY our Constituency Labour Party Parliamentary Candidate should be deselected. Its straight to HOW to go about doing it. Now I know our Parliamentary Candidate. He's a thoroughly decent bloke. He lost to the Tory candidate, in our key marginal constituency, after a recount, by 120 votes. So over 49% of voters thought he was a credible candidate. He's the epitome of a centre left MP.
But no. We're being told - by a load of lefties from out of town - that he has to go. Presumably because he has failed to show due deference to the Glorious leader. The representatives of St Jeremy of Islington have deemed he has been disloyal so he is to be 'purged'. As must the other members of the local Constituency Labour Party, as they come up for re-election. We are not told who they will be replaced by. None of the faithful cult members ask. Jeremy will know. The Glorious Leader will appoint who is best for us.
This is all starting to have more than the whiff of North Korea about it. I'm sorry... I didn't catch your name? And where are you people from again....?
Obviously what our knife-edge marginal constituency needs is a radical left wing candidate? Imposed from an Islington bunker. The last election result clearly shows that to be the case. Doesn't it? Its the only logical conclusion to reach, surely?
Then theres the language used. Its the same as our resident Marxist and other assorted Corbynites. Its the language of the bunker. Of paranoia. Its all 'plotters' and 'coups'. It requires 'eradication' and 'purges' of 'traitors' and 'right-wingers'.The tone says it all. Its paranoid, its extremely confrontational, and its very very aggressive. Uncomfortably so.
one phrase was repeated over and over and over. A very familiar phrase of late...
"Take Back Control"
... repeated over and over and over
Recognise it? You couldn't make it up. This Momentum guy was the mirror image of Farage. The left to his right. Without the 'bloke down the pub' charm. Even parroting the same phrase, over an over. The irony was apparently lost
Be in no doubt... this is the 80's all over again. These people are entryists. They are insurgents. They are trots, and Marxists who are espousing 'Radical Revolutionary Socialism' and couldn't give a toss about democracy
Because clearly thats what the British Electorate are crying out for at the ballot box
After what I saw last night I can honestly say, without any doubt, that when Corbyn is re-elected (which is now bound to happen) the 'purges' will start. And when this happens, the Labour party is utterly and completely, well and truly *ed! It is finished! Over!
Welcome to the one party Tory state. Endless right wing rule by an unopposed triumphant Party with free range to do what the hell it likes, indefinitely. With the 6th form trots shouting their bile, totally ineffectually, from the sidelines
Oh... at no point last night were the Tories even mentioned. Not once. Shows the priorities at play here.
Whats happening in the labour party is an absolute tragedy. And we we all be worse off as a result of this democratic deficit that is about to be ushered in by these hardline lunatics.
One of the most depressing things I have ever witnessed. Jeremy Corbyn and his followers are very very dangerous people. Be in no doubt about that. I'm certainly not, after what I saw last night
Did anyone challenge this? What was the response?
Oh... at no point last night were the Tories even mentioned. Not once. Shows the priorities at play here.
No real surprise there - its very inward looking. And I though Bojo was demonstrating narcissistic tendencies!
And we we all be worse off as a result of this democratic deficit
Already the case
One of the most depressing things I have ever witnessed. Jeremy Corbyn and his followers are very very dangerous people. Be in no doubt about that. I'm certainly not, after what I saw last night
No they are not, they are gently and new - get with the game. 😉
Cuckoo!
binners - MemberWe're being told - by a load of lefties from out of town - that he has to go.
So your town has no lefties ...... the lefties have to come from another town.
That's interesting, what's your town called ? And why do all the lefties live in another town ? What's wrong with yours ?
The atmosphere wasn't one that was about debate on policy. Of two way conversations. The atmosphere was that of a cult. The 3 of us sat biting our lips as one after another people stood up to praise their revolutionary hero. This was a leftie echo chamber. The same one Jeremy and most of his followers obviously inhabit
Seriously... its a cult! And they're dangerous! This is Militant all over again> In fact, I honestly think this lot are worse. They're even more convinced that they're right, and that then justifies anything
At one point - and I swear I'm not making this up - they had a serious, lengthy discussion about how Momentum could prevent Jeremy from being assassinated. As 'The State' would obviously attempt this in a bid to stop the revolution.
Seriously!! 😯 This is what you're dealing with!
Well done binners. I admire your adventure to get the skinny from the horses mouth. Now at least you can't be accused of just "parroting what you read in the right wing press" (my paraphrase).
Although I'm pretty sure ernest will give it his best shot.
My sympathies to your sincere political preferences, which seem to be dying the death of a thousand cuts.
binners - MemberI swear I'm not making this up
It's very hard to believe a man who, despite Corbyn having over a quarter of a million supporters in the Labour Party, claims that his town so lacks Corbyn supporters that they have to be brought in from outside.
I have to say that on the occasions that I make a vague attempt to read your endless rants binners I am constantly amazed at the creative bollox that you keep coming out with 🙂
And now binners, watch for the classic response of closing down dissent. There is one group who are past masters at that!!
Oh, wait a second....
Ernie - I think we can trust the gist of this. BInners may enjoy a good rant but I don't see him as a purveyor of "Jambyfacts"
I have to say that on the occasions that I make a vague attempt to read your endless rants binners I am constantly amazed at the creative bollox that you keep coming out with
Is that the best you can come up with? Seriously, take five and have another go. There must be another loophole in Binners' post somewhere.
The script almost writes itself, THM!
Indeed it does and binners is now taking on a well-versed tag team!
There must be another loophole in Binners' post somewhere.
No doubt, I didn't really read his rant. The bit about Corbyn supporters having to be bussed in from outside town caught my eye, specially as it's universally agreed, even by his opponents, that he has a huge level of support.
I don't really bother arguing with binners, why would I, what would be the point ?
Corbyn supporter does not necessarily equal Momentum Activist, no?
No doubt, I didn't really read his rant.
That's one way of dealing with it, I suppose.
No doubt, I didn't really read his rant...I don't really bother arguing with binners, why would I, what would be the point ?
Evidence would suggest otherwise, but carry on, or not as the case may be!!
Well not if you believe the media bollox about Momentum. It's hard to support Corbyn but be opposed to Momentum. If you find yourself in that situation I would suggest that you consider reevaluating your position.
It's hardly surprising that a new branch of Momentum would have folk from existing branches outside the area sent in to explain the aims and agenda of the wider organisation to potential new members. I don't see why this is the part of the post that is causing you so much difficulty.
I also don't see why agreeing with the anti-austerity, investment and social justice agenda put forward by Corbyn would automatically make you a Momentum activist, or even supporter. The two can easily be separated.
Its the language of the bunker. Of paranoia. Its all 'plotters' and 'coups'. It requires 'eradication' and 'purges' of 'traitors' and 'right-wingers'.The tone says it all. Its paranoid, its extremely confrontational, and its very very aggressive. Uncomfortably so.
What do you expect? It seems inarguable that the PLP and NEC have been scheming against Corbyn - the orchestrated resignation, the gerrymandering, the poisonous briefings. Meanwhile Corbyn and Smith are proposing fairly similar left of centre policies yet Corbyn is supposedly a raging Trot.
No wonder so many of us think the whole business is total cobblers.
It's hardly surprising that a new branch of Momentum would have folk from existing branches outside the area sent in to explain the aims and agenda of the wider organisation to potential new members.
It's very surprising imo. I doubt that you understand Momentum very well, it has a tiny membership structure for a start, most are just supporters, and it's been active ever since Corbyn was first elected leader.
If you believe the media bollox that it's some sort of party within a party then I can understand how you might misunderstand.
I would still be interested in knowing what town it was, specially as they have set up Momentum so late in the day. What have they been doing the last 12 months, never mind the last 2 months - haven't they been following the news ffs ?
EDIT : And remember, this meeting was apparently packed with outsiders. Not a few to "explain the aims and agenda", whatever that entails.
Momentum has only 12,000 members, Labour 500,000.
Binners: Well done for putting your money where your mouth is. I might try and get to a Momntum meeting locally. I don't know anybody in Momentum but I know 5 or so people who voted Corbs in last election and pretty sure they'll vote him in next.
Deselecting someone who hasn't been elected seems harsh! What's the process to deselect someone?
And remember, this meeting was apparently packed with outsiders. Not a few to "explain the aims and agenda", whatever that entails.
Well, only one of us was there. But just to be clear, you believe he's making this particular point up?
Well his holiness is coming to Milton Keynes on Saturday
assuming he doesnt get assassinated, will be toddling along to see what he says!
You're missing the point here Ernie. unsurprisingly. Probably deliberately.
I didn't say 'packed with outsiders'. I pointed out that the people who came in, stood up and told us (members of the constituency Labour Party and local constituants) that we should be de-selcting our Parliamentary Candidate, and also members of our constituency party (presumably soley on the grounds that they are not approved of by the bearded one - no reason was given) were from who knows where? certainly not within the constituency.I doubt their proposed replacements (also not mentioned) would be either
This raises one major question to me:
1. Where does this fit in with this much vaunted 'Democratic Mandate' that Jeremy says is the foundation of the movement, and indeed his own leadership?
Or on a more emotional level, let me put it in the same way it was subsequently voiced by the three of us listening to it:
2) Who the * do these people think they are to rock up out of the blue and start telling people who should and shouldn't be their parliamentary representative? What *ing right do they think they have to do that then?
Feel free to answer whichever question style you're most comfortable with
off you go......
2) Who the * do these people think they are to rock up out of the blue and start telling people who should and shouldn't be their parliamentary representative? What *ing right do they think they have to do that then?
About as much right as the NEC has to tells us who should and shouldn't be eligible to vote. About as much right as the shadow cabinet has to try and force its leader to resign.
It's pretty clear that the Labour party is an unholy mess. Time to scrap it.
2) Who the * do these people think they are to rock up out of the blue and start telling people who should and shouldn't be their parliamentary representative? What *ing right do they think they have to do that then?
that is crap but wgaf considering how many candidates are parachuted in to safe seats they will 'represent' as an MP
"Well... having been to the Momentum meeting"
Yeah. Sure. Right. Course you did. Ok. 😆
And I suppose you went with an open mind, ready to have your opinion changed if anyone convinced you that there might be an alternative way of thinking to the narrow-minded, judgmental prejudiced attitude from which you obviously suffer?
"I swear I'm not making this up"
😆
Come on Binners; pull the other one. 😉
Errmmm - its on his facebook as well including pics.
"The Jewish people I know where not at all surprised at the cover up. "
Interesting, because the Jewish people I know, including several on that list Ernie posted, have accepted that the whole anti-Semitism slur was concocted purely to try and damage Corbyn. And that includes a few 'pro-Isreal' people. Anyone with any intelligence saw the accusations for what they were, bollocks. And has accepted the findings of the reports. Only those who have an axe to grind have deliberately chosen not to accept it.
"These hard left elements are frequently anti-Semitic and quite openly so."
Evidence please. Or shut up.
As for Shami Chakrabati; I'm mystified why you'd be so opposed to someone with her unquestionable dedication to fighting for human rights receiving a justifiable reward for her endavours. She's far more deserving than 95% of the cronies that sit in the upper house. And she's done a shit load more to help better our society, than you ever have or ever will.
kimbers - Memberthat is crap but wgaf considering how many candidates are parachuted in to safe seats they will 'represent' as an MP
Well it's the NEC who has the power to impose candidates onto constituency parties, and since the New Labour clique have had a stranglehold on the party it's been going on for a very long time :
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-accused-of-plot-to-impose-candidates-1348712.html ]Blair accused of plot to impose candidates[/url]
However things changed last week and the New Labour clique no longer have a majority on the NEC.
Except unprecedented levels of hypocrisy from Labour right-wingers and their friends in the media should the new current NEC dare to intervene in the selection processes of constituencies.
But, TJ, what you're clearly missing is the fact that those pics are a plant by the right wing media and GCHQ.
Cheers Binners, very interesting that. I've been trying to keep an open mind but I think I've said previously that I thought the Corbyn thing was becoming a bit of a cult of personality, and this would seem to confirm it. Did any of the constituency members question any of this? In particular the need to deselect the candidate? What was the response?
Whilst I can accept that hardcore momentum organisers fit the description, I still don't believe that all these 100s of thousands of new members are entryist trots. Seems to me there's an opportunity there for the non-Corbyn wing of the labour party to capture these members, and it shouldn't be very hard if the momentum lot are as barking as you say. Before that can happen though the PLP needs to give up it's authoritarian and machiavellian machinations and start listening and talking to them.
All these problems would be solved if the Tories in the Labour party moved over to their real home the[s] Peasant-Crushing[/s] Tory party.
As for Shami Chakrabati; I'm mystified why you'd be so opposed to someone with her unquestionable dedication to fighting for human rights receiving a justifiable reward for her endavours. She's far more deserving than 95% of the cronies that sit in the upper house. And she's done a shit load more to help better our society, than you ever have or ever will.
I doubt you would see many people at all, if anyone, suggest that Shami Chakrabati is anything but wholly deserving of an honour, and indeed a place in the (unelected, remember) House of Lords. Her years of work on Human Rights make her the perfect type of person for inclusion in the legislative system (that so many on the left disagree with, remember)
Giving her that honour immediately after hosting an independent inquiry into problems (made up or otherwise) in the Labour Party however is just ridiculously bad politics, most particuarly after the cosy relationship that Blair (pantomime boo, hiss) had with party donations and cash for honours
Like so many other things that the LP has done recently, creating their own elephant trap to leap into as well as the ones the Tories have laid (with great big signs saying 'this is a trap') by handing her an honour within days of giving a remarkably upbeat report has to call into question the political competence of Corbyn and his surrounding team (far more than it calls into question the integrity of Chakrabati)
Tories in the Labour party
Go on then, who is your political Fulcrum, at what point, politically, do you become a Red Tory?
Maybe you could give some examples of who you are referring to as Tory? Let's see where the political divide starts?
Whilst I can accept that hardcore momentum organisers fit the description, I still don't believe that all these 100s of thousands of new members are entryist trots.
I don't either Daz. The thing is that I think most of us with left wing views agree with a lot of what Corbyn is saying. So as a destination, I don't have a problem with it.
What I do disagree with is where its going. There have now been so many examples of a pretty nasty and sinister undercurrent to all this. Its unpleasant on a number of levels. The anti-semitism and the threats, and the violent misogyny is coming from somewhere. And I think its coming from the same Militant element as the 80's, who've now hijacked the whole thing to suit their own hard left agenda>
But now - more seriously than that IMHO - is what I witnessed last night. And I can only presume by the way it was reeled off, parrot fashion that this is happening across the country in every constituency association. And whats happening is the subverting of democracy by a cabal. These people are travelling the country and making good on Corbyns threat - that if MP's failed to tow the line, they would be deselected.
What I saw last night is that this was no idle threat. They're already well underway with the proces. And its not just MP's, or candidates, the aim of this process is to 'purge' (their word) the party of dissenters, and eradicate (again - their word) any opinion that contrasts with Corbyns
Its a cult! Pure and simple! A very very dangerous one. On many levels
"Giving her that honour immediately after hosting an independent inquiry into problems (made up or otherwise) in the Labour Party however is yesterday ridiculously bad politics"
So, using the opportunity of Scameron's resignation honours to install somebody who should be there, inot the upper house to help counter all the tory cronies there is 'ridiculously bad politics'? Sounds like ridiculously good politics to me. Fantastic bit of opportunism, and a very shrewd more by Corbyn.
Giving a gong to your wife's 'stylist' is ridiculously bad politics. I don't ever have to bother to explain why.
Did any of the constituency members question any of this? In particular the need to deselect the candidate? What was the response?
Looking around the room there were only two distinct groups of people. The majority were the Cult members, standing up and praising the Bearded Messiah, like a north Korean praises the Glorious Leader, to wild North Korean style Applause. Then the paranoia of saying Jeremy needed to be protected from assassination by 'The State' (I mean ... SERIOUSLY... get a grip FFS?!!). It was mental. And not an atmosphere that encouraged anyone to contradict any of this evangelical lunacy.
Then there was me and my 2 friends (who are both quite a bit older and were absolutely horrified by what they were witnessing) and a small minority of others who were looking decidedly uncomfortable with the way this whole thing was going.
Like I said... this wasn't an atmosphere to encourage debate. This is a cult.And cults don't tolerate the questioning of the leader. That was very apparent right from the off.
You know me Daz. When do I miss an opportunity to gob off? But I sat there and kept my mouth shut last night. Standing up and disagreeing with them would have been a totally futile exercise. This wasn't a debate. This was a rally
"Its a cult! Pure and simple! "
Oh look! I'm using lots of exclamation marks! Which makes my posts seem so much more meaningful! And insightful! And hopefully people will pay more attention!
!!!!!!!!
"What I do disagree with is where its going."
Nobody's forcing you to stay. As before; you are free to go and join any party you like, which you feel best represents your own views and interests. I'm sure the LibDems would welcome you with open arms. 😆
"Then there was me and my 2 friends (who are both a lot older and were absolutely horrified by what they were witnessing) and a minority of others who were looking decidedly uncomfortable with the way this whole thing was going."
So you sat there and said nothing? 😆
You are funny. Ranting on and on on here, day and night, 24/7, but you havent' got the balls to actually stand up and voice your opinions in front of actual people?
What a brave little soldier you are. 😆
Yourself and the Croydon Communist are certainly doing your bit to promote and highlight the more intelligent, and civilised, level of debate within the Corbynista ranks Clodhopper.
i can't see why anyone wouldn't be attracted to this gentler, kinder ethos you both so eloquently espouse
Giving a gong to your wife's 'stylist' is ridiculously bad politics. I don't ever have to bother to explain why.
Oh, I agree
But [b]all[/b] political capital in that was lost (and they could have used that to slap the Tories round the face for a long time IMO) when The LP handed one to Shami for her report
And you have to give some bloody credit to J-TV for an utterly remarkable journalistic scoop in asking her that question in their interview!
