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indeed we tightly regulate* the spoken media - radio and tv- yet the written press is free to the point it can just print polemic to the point of lies/distortion
* what they say must be actually a true reflection of the events, essentially its regulated to be unbiased.
Maybot has taken this to new extremes with a hermitcaly sealed campaign, selectively targeting specific groups
You may not like it, but that's smart. Happens all the time look at companies like Apple who spend millions & millions on controlling the message.
I'm very saddened by the current state of the BBC.
Its tragic! The death of proper journalism at the BBC. They are totally cowed and neutered. They went the whole EU referendum giving a mouthpiece to people who were lying through their teeth, without daring to question any of it, and they're letting the Maybot off the hook in exactly the same manner now.
Chanel 4 news is the only one worth watching. The BBC should be ashamed when they look in the gulf in the quality of political coverage
I am sure many at the BBC despair at the state of the Labour Party. Like Binners if you want to see a Labour Government its desperately hard to be impartial about Corbyn.
The quotes coming out from Labour MPs and senior figures are pretty damning. Disowning the leader and the Manifesto. Corbyn is getting a dose of his own medicine.
During the Thatcher years her governments were held to account, even Blair was pilloried over God, war and dossiers.
It was the enquiry into Dr Kelly's death that cut the BBC's balls off. That was the point when they could have stood up against the blatant political hatchet job being directed at them, but instead uncle Greg decided to lead them meekly into servitude.
^^^ And speaking of
putting forward biased/one-sided opinion as fact is another....
Jamba enters the thread. 😆
Mummmmmyyyyy
and just as we are discussing biased/selective media you come along with a Telegraph article....
The quotes coming out from Labour MPs and senior figures are pretty damning.
I am not a big fan of Corbyn but to link to a Torygraph article that doesn't actually "quote" a Labour MP condemning or disowning Corbyn is a joke.
That article is pathetic.
[quote=deadlydarcy ]^^^ And speaking of
putting forward biased/one-sided opinion as fact is another....
Jamba enters the thread.
Mummmmmyyyyy
not one Labour MP quoted nor named in the article and all the telegraph references[ proof??] are links to itself*
That is the sort of gibberish we should not be peddaling as its just biased tosh
A little left or right of centre may be ok but just making things up is not something the free press should be allowed to do
* at least the unsourced and unevdidenced link does include names - whilst being clear to admit they are [s]making it all up[/s] not at all involved in the [s]made up[/s] plot
Dan Jarvis, Yvette Cooper and Sir Keir Starmer could be asked to lead the group, although there is no suggestion they have been approached or been involved in the talks.
I am sure many at the BBC despair at the state of the Labour Party.
Really? Cameron dinner guest Sara Montague? OU Conservative Association president Nick Robinson? Is that the BBC we're talking about?
Lol at the 'BBC are Tory biased' comments above.
Watch the news recently, the BBC's cheif political commentator Laura Keunsberg (?sp) shows more bias than is professional for her position.
If it's the Tories she's reporting on then she looks like a sourpuss, the questions are barbed and she's the model of persistent questioning, almost Paxman like...but if it's labour (or more pertinently Corbyn in particular) she's questioning then she comes over all smiles, powder puff questions and gooey like their head cheer leader.
It's nauseating to watch and if she can't do the job with impartiality then she should hand over to someone who can.
That link from Jamby is classic.
A Telegraph article quoting May 🙂
deviant - That's truly hilarious.
Don't worry it get's better :))
Jeremy Corbyn isn't a pacifist because he backed the IRA, Labour MPs have claimed, as the party's leader delivers a major speech in London to try and bolster his defence and foreign policy credentials.
Corbyn is delivering an even bigger catastrophe than I hoped for
Well you're certainly jot a pacifist jamba. You're on record as quite happy that children playing are sometimes killed.
Labour MPs have claimed
Unfortunately I am not a subscriber to the Torygraph so can't read the article you have quoted. Which Labour MP's are these then?
Lol at the 'BBC are Tory biased' comments above.
Watch the news recently, the BBC's cheif political commentator Laura Keunsberg (?sp) shows more bias than is professional for her position.
LOL at deviant living in fantasy land.
[i]In January 2017 the BBC Trust ruled that a report in November 2015 by Kuenssberg broke the broadcaster’s impartiality and accuracy guidelines. A viewer had complained about her item, which featured an interview with Jeremy Corbyn on the BBC News at Six which was edited to give the incorrect impression that Corbyn disagreed with the use of firearms by police in incidents such as that month's terrorist attacks in Paris. His purported answer to a question as broadcast in the report was in fact his reply to a different (unbroadcast) question, not specifically about that terrorist attack.[21] The BBC Trust said that the inaccuracy was "compounded" when Kuenssberg went on to state that Corbyn's message "couldn't be more different" to that of the prime minister Theresa May, who was about to publish anti-terrorism proposals. The Trust said that accuracy was particularly important when dealing "with a critical question at a time of extreme national concern".[21][/i]
I think deviant's hit the beers a bit early. 😆
AlexSimon.....she was the same with Trump, if she can't hide her disdain from public view then she shouldnt be in front of the camera.
Nobody cares what her personal political views are so why the need to be so obvious with her dislike when questioning politicians she disagrees with.
There were plenty of journos present who I'm sure found Trump as repulsive as a snake but you couldn't see it on their faces or hear it in their tone because they were consomethinge professionals.....not our Laura, she made it perfectly clear who she'd wanted to win the US election and what she thought of Trump, it was embarrassing.
There was a time BBC reporters were seen as the best in the world, you'd never guess their political allegiance, all politicians were given a hard time etc....not anymore, the Keunsberg has decided to appoint herself head of labour campaigning for this election.
Hahaha - here is Kuenssberg being "biased towards Corbyn"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2017-39861259/in-full-kuenssberg-interview-with-corbyn
😯
Hopefully its just what DD said
not a fan of Kuenssberg. Shes seems to be trying to be the story rather than report it. Shes seems to cock up with all parties.
Life's complicated. I'd like the media to give more space to allow Politians to give complicated answers to questions.
A side effect would be that something would have to come after 'strong and stable'... and the what comes after is far more interesting.
We've had spin under blair and project fear under cameron, then fake news with brexit. Maybe the next innovation for elections is an actual flippin debate with some actual policies. 😕
Deviant FYI Labour are the red team and Tories the blue team.
And she showed restraint with Trump by not throwing up all over him.
and thats why we cant have nice things
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I wish I could laugh
fifeandy - Member
lol @kimbers.
Democracy is great isn't it
we get the politicians we deserve after all!
Enjoying the new wave of positive lefty land banter on here.
Do we need to draft in some angry insecure right-wing motorists from pistonheads to spice things up a bit ? As the sense of debate over there is pretty wicked.
Nah, on seconds thoughts this week has been good.
Just a few days ago Labour where telling us they'd reverse the Tory "tax cuts for the rich" on Inheritance Tax to pay for all sorts if things including the Diane Abbott additional policing.
Except now they are not reversing the tax cuts for the rich !!!
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_59157f27e4b0031e737cc4a9?ir=UK
Your link…
No mention of Capital Gains Tax.
No mention of Income Tax or NI contributions bands, rates, thresholds or allowances.
No mention of Dividends Tax.
No mention of Corporation Tax.
Etc.
Plenty of openings for reversing "tax cuts for the rich".
Did you see Mummy being booed out the back door of another building jamba? For a shifty childcatcher-like introvert, this must be difficult for her - she's really not coming across well - you guys must be happy it's only a few more weeks.
In other news, I see the Tories are using the same bus as was used for the Remain campaign. 😆
Inheritance tax has always been seen by the rich as an "optional" tax anyway. The only people who pay it are middle earners who get caught out by the rise in their property values. Anyone with any financial sense and enough money in property to have to pay IHT can easily avoid it if they so wish. Hence pointless including it IMHO.
Inheritance tax has always been seen by the rich as an "optional" tax anyway. The only people who pay it are middle earners who get caught out by the rise in their property values. Anyone with any financial sense and enough money in property to have to pay IHT can easily avoid it if they so wish. Hence pointless including it IMHO.
You forgot to mention farmers getting a free ride, large swathes of land is now used to hedge against inheritance tax as the high net worth crowd catch on
Listened to any questions tonight on y42 and Labour and Corbyn were getting all the applause from the audience, they even seemed to be behind Diane Abbott, the whole tone of it was a welcome surprise
So now they are not reversing the tax cuts for the rich !!!
Then you must be pleased?
I'm getting the impression among my friends that they are pleasantly surprised by the Labour manifesto. I think that Corbyn has been billed as a lunatic communist to such an extent that everyone (myself included) have been pleasantly surprised to see a manifesto made up of sensible policies. It does show how far the country has gone that a free university education is seen as a la-la land policy.
The Tories and mainstream press did such a good job of making him a joke, and to be fair he hasn't done himself many favours, that when he actually presents his ideas they seem pretty workable.
I'm still voting SNP though.
Fingers crossed that producing a manifesto of policies people actually want will prompt a rethink. It would be a great day for democracy if that happened.
we are all still getting tory thenI'm still voting SNP though.
Of course, because people might have taken Corbyn seriously for a couple of days, the right wing media have managed to dig up that someone on the Corbyn team (no idea how big the team is) has former ties to a Communist party.
I bet tomorrow, when the manifesto is launched, most of the focus will be on costings and what's changed since the draft, rather than whether the policies are good/popular/well-intentioned/proved to work in other countries or not.
I can't remember the last time the Tories bothered to say where any of their money for policies come from and nobody seems to care.
Seems that Labour are still not managing to dispel the myth of them crashing the economy (Germany crashed harder).
Andrew Murray looks a good hire. For the 6th formers, anyway.
Alex, that notorious right wing media outlet HuffPo are reporting sources saying he's "heading up" the campaign. As a "grown up". 🙂
molgrips - Member
Fingers crossed that producing a manifesto of policies people actually want will prompt a rethink. It would be a great day for democracy if that happened.
good luck with that
apparently Teresa May is more popular than labour, torries or corbyn
despite....
voting for iraq war
go home vans
missing immigration targets for 7 years
abu quatada deportation farce
border security cuts and huge delays
passport office cuts & huge delays
slashing police numbers and pensions- destroying morale
the disastrous paedophile investigation
oh and
being in charge of cybersecurity for 7 years whilst the NHS were running software not updated or supported since 2014!
we get the politicians we deserve
the tories have promised 90bn for the NHS for the next parliament
its that 350m a week
if its not in the manifesto then someone has been lying
😆
I'm still voting SNP though.
Eh? So you spend time extolling the virtues on the Labour manifesto and then proclaim you're? voting for someone else? No wonder we're screwed.
[quote=kimbers ]molgrips - Member
Fingers crossed that producing a manifesto of policies people actually want will prompt a rethink. It would be a great day for democracy if that happened.
good luck with that
apparently Teresa May is more popular than labour, torries or corbyn
despite....
voting for iraq war
go home vans
missing immigration targets for 7 years
abu quatada deportation farce
border security cuts and huge delays
passport office cuts & huge delays
slashing police numbers and pensions- destroying morale
the disastrous paedophile investigation
oh and
being in charge of cybersecurity for 7 years whilst the NHS were running software not updated or supported since 2014!
we get the politicians we deserve
Plus the torture and killing of innocent animals
Plus
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Seems that Labour are still not managing to dispel the myth of them crashing the economy
Why bother when Mervyn King roundly dispelled that myth?
And the Labour Party touting, at long last, the Tobin Tax (Robin Hood tax)
We've been extolling the virtues for years in the Green Party.
Yeah, Labour & Tobin tax. Tick.
Junkyard - lazaruswe are all still getting tory then
Wasn't true last time, won't be true this time, or any other time.
Corbyn is still very weak on security, apparently WW2 was the last 'just' war. Yeah good one Jezza, so you were happy with Sadam plundering Kuwait's oil fields then?
His shadow cabinet even know he is weak on it, hence, Thornberry's harder line at the weekend. But does anyone really believe Jeremy could make the hard decision if needed?
Anyone expect TM to be held to account on that voting record in the same way TF was held to account on his gay sin stuff?
Corbyn is still very weak on security
And on that bombshell folks...
But does anyone really believe Jeremy could make the hard decision if needed?
I think, on balance I'd rather have a PM who was reluctant to go to war, rather than one desperate to be remembered for something.
But does anyone really believe Jeremy could make the hard decision if needed?
What hard decision? Defend the country? Of course. Rush into an ill-thought out foreign disaster...?
The FT rightly reporting that tories 'worker's rights' are meaningless if tribunal fees continue to rise under them. Labour is committed to abolishing employment tribunal fees.
Fingers crossed that producing a manifesto of policies people actually want will prompt a rethink. It would be a great day for democracy if that happened.
Any time the will of the electorate is upheld is a good day for democracy. Which ever party wins.
I'm still voting SNP though.
Eh? So you spend time extolling the virtues on the Labour manifesto and then proclaim you're? voting for someone else? No wonder we're screwed.
To be fair, I spent about 30 seconds extolling the virtues of the Labour manifesto so it wasn't a massive commitment. The Labour and SNP manifestos aren't diametrically opposed are they?
I believe that all things being equal small countries are better than big countries so I vote SNP.
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But does anyone really believe Jeremy could make the hard decision if needed?
I'd much rather have a PM who resisted going to war than celebrate how many British Soldiers were killed like the scum does. Of course that wouldn't be 'patriotic' though would it?
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Well, if Saville is the pinnacle of political debate these days....
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Oh...the insight...
The originality...
*faints*
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STRONG AND STABLE
COALITION OF CHAOS!
The NHS is safe in our hands!
Any time the will of the electorate is upheld is a good day for democracy.
The electorate generally wants centre-left policies. The right is able to persuade the electorate to vote for it in spite of what it really wants. Much of the electorate is poorly informed and easily led.
A proper look at most political output shows this in action. They don't discuss policy, they insinuate and manipulate. The winning party would be giving the country what they want, rather than what it wants.
I WILL FIRE MISSILES!
The winning party would be giving the country what they want, rather than what it wants.
And how would the labour party be any different ? They've put out their manifesto. If enough voters like it and think the labour party can deliver Corbyn will be in no.10. Ditto all the parties. I still don't understand how one party winning is better for democracy than another ( in the context of British democracy ).
[quote=deadlydarcy ]I WILL FIRE MISSILES!
#strangest
they want centre right economics and centre left social policies in the main - ie the impossible, low tax, great NHS, reduced red tape and better working conditions etcThe electorate generally wants centre-left policies
they want centre right economics and centre left social policies in the main - ie the impossible, low tax, great NHS, reduced red tape and better working conditions etc
^^^ Nail on head
They've put out their manifesto. If enough voters like it and think the labour party can deliver Corbyn will be in no.10. Ditto all the parties. I still don't understand how one party winning is better for democracy than another
You're missing the point. The parties aren't judged on their actual policies. They are judged on who has the most persuasive spin.
That's not how it's meant to work.
Keep repeating the tag lines. Its just like Brexit Referendum all over again. All you are doing is reinforcing the weakness of Labour by bringing the conversation back to rudderless Corbyn.
Molgrips its just blinkered to think Labour's misfortunes are "spin", dangerously so to the extent that line kf thinking will see Labour in the UK look like Labour in Scotland - irrelevant.
More bad news for Labour here as yet more traditional Labour voters move away, Newsnight
rudderless Corbyn
Now they have a manifesto packed with policies how are they rudderless?
You might criticise the funding proposals, that would be fair game, but you're just smearing.
See what I mean taxi25? Jam isn't addressing policies, he's just posting up the negative spin, to try and put people off. Playing mind games.
its a thread on corbyn. what were you expecting to see if not a discussion of him?
He has absolutely no leadership skills, he is the very definition of rudderless. He is un-stable and weak. Hence the Tories use of their tag line.
He has absolutely no leadership skills, he is the very definition of rudderless.
Disagree. Party has a clear direction, so it's not rudderless at all.
He might be a weak leader, and he might struggle to keep MPs in line, but that's different.
you think you have any chance of persuading him to do anything other than trot out tory soundbites
At least he has stopped calling him old and tired *, be thankful for that
* I guess head office thought youthful and energetic was not a great tag line for the PM
he's just posting up the negative spin, to try and put people off. Playing mind games.
Not picking sides, but politics has always had an element of spin.
You say what you'd like to do and try and persuade voters that your the person/party to do it. But you've also got to try and show that your opponents policies are less sound and they will be less able than yourselves. That's politics, spin has always been there negative and positive.
Agree it's always been there. It might be getting worse, but it's pretty bad.
Just used Jam to demonstrate it, but it's not limited to any particular side. I think the Tories are better at it though.
The parties aren't judged on their actual policies. They are judged on who has the most persuasive spin.That's not how it's meant to work.
Says who? Spin is as old as people & politics, you can only remove it in the 'lab' the real world will always have elements of spin.
He may have seemed rudderless for a while, but given what we can see in his manifesto, he now definitely has one, and its pointed sharp left to a tax and spend utopia.